True...
Would you rather have clean break of your arm... Or a Comminuted break
I'd still rather not break my arm
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Would you rather have clean break of your arm... Or a Comminuted break
I'd still rather not break my arm
The rights branding and messages are far more on point than anything the left have produced it's far to say. It worries me for a second referendum.
Even the 'People's Vote" is badly names in my view as it just leads to "the people have already had their say". It needs to evoke that it's a sign off/approval of what parliament has put forward.
Hard to imagine a less 'clean' break than crashing out with no deal. Total chaos followed by years of fraught negotiations with the EU regarding a trade deal & the future relationship. Literally the messiest possible outcome and the one that those with 'Brexit fatigue' should fear most - we'll never escape Brexit if this happens, it will totally derange our politics for years to come.
Is Bercow ill? Sounded like a troll under a bridge just now.
The EU are being extremely polite and don't want to be seen to be to blame for the problem.
One of the many things wrong with it is that you cannot have two sets of rules/jurisdiction for one place. The DUP are clueless and don't want to be separated from mainland UK and Labour MPs are also backing Corbyn's ridiculous plan which is also impossible.
It is 100% certain that the EU will not accept it.- they'll just try to say it nicely.
True I guess.The media in the UK have been totally pathetic from start to finish in this whole saga. Whether they are completely unknowledgeable or biased is a matter of opinion but how they let politicians spout off complete nonsense without challenging them is beyond belief.
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I agree, remain/soft brexit have been unable to convey any message which would stick and actually get to the people that are still in the limbo. Framing ig as People’s Vote rather than confirmatory referendum or something of that nature really is a bit condescending which never flies well with people.
The other point which seems to escape a lot of people is that not only is the "Irish border" a border between UK and Ireland but between the UK and the whole EU.
As I'm now half British and half French I'll have a fight with myself.
Is it me or Boris seems to be on good behaviour today?
I read that he told the Cabinet he'd have to crawl to opposition MPs today, in order to win votes.
I doubt that even if he is known as BlowJo from today on, they will approve his deal.
Why doesn't Boris just have the balls and say what he wants no deal, everyone knows it. Its such an embarrassing state of affairs.
People on both sides need to be honest there is NO solution to the Northern Ireland situation, none. The UK, seemingly, don't want to lose NI (probably old school Unionists in parliament) and the Republic are clearly using the situation to angle for a border poll and Unification of the island although Varadkar doesn't feel the time is right, the rest of Europe seem keener on backing Ireland than appeasing Britain. The situation really is that simple there is no solution, a hard Brexit will mean a hard border and the breaking of the GFA.
People on both sides need to be honest there is NO solution to the Northern Ireland situation, none. The UK, seemingly, don't want to lose NI (probably old school Unionists in parliament) and the Republic are clearly using the situation to angle for a border poll and Unification of the island although Varadkar doesn't feel the time is right, the rest of Europe seem keener on backing Ireland than appeasing Britain. The situation really is that simple there is no solution, a hard Brexit will mean a hard border and the breaking of the GFA.
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I don't even like confirmatory which to be fair they have sometimes pushed. People do not like being asked 'are you sure?' when they've made a decision, what they do like is passing judgement.
If they'd have spent the last year pushing the idea that politicians can't just enforce their own interpretation and that it needs the people to say whether it's good enough i think we'd be in a better place.
Brexit was supposedly about being heard for a lot of people. A follow up referendum should have been the most natural thing but the likes of the Lib Dems turned it into a battle with their entrenched positions.
There it is again. What’s a hard boarder? Maybe a bully who went to border school? Oops you have me at it now, pardon me.. boarding school
What is your view of the UK government proposal for the Irish border issue which has been offered the the EU.
I do realise that this is not the only proposal so if you have a view on that as well.
Apologies great leader I will amend sir, please sir I apologise sir, I am in work sir and don't have time to check it sir.... also my spelling is quite shit.
Its a joke and unworkable and Boris knows it is, not just one but 2 borders, on to the south and one to the West. He is simply wanting the EU to reject it so he can say "Hey, look guys I gave you a solution you rejected it, so were off".
In broad terms I do agree that Boris tactics are very much focused on the blame game so as to paint the picture that he is the good guy and everybody else is to blame.
He is also trying to break up the opposition parties stance.
Having said that, the ball is now in the EU court and I am very interested in their response.
Europe as a whole would probably accept or negotiate, Ireland will reject it without even reading the whole thing, ANY restrictions on the boarder, or around the boarder, or 10 miles inside the boarder contravenes the GFA and pushes a border poll back again. The EU seem more eager to side with Ireland then they do to make concessions for Borris, as you say Borris knows this and is going to get what he wants.
Haha I presume it’s an auto spell-check issue as lots of people keep doing it
It is totally unworkable, it's probably one of the worst things I've seen since the beginning and we've had some nonsense over the last three or so years. The only intention of this is for the EU to refuse it and the EU know that they are being set up for the blame game and are trying to be diplomatic about refusing it.
If only opposition MPs or journalists would or could force BJ to answer specific questions about it in front of the public then it would fall apart in a matter of minutes but do they have the desire or knowledge to outwit him.
There is a reason he is skipping PMs questions again, I think that's 3 missed in 4.
To be fair he is taking questions on it right now. It's mainly a PR exercise though with all the ERG on board with the spinning.
Some of them have down quite the u-turn.
I'm in work so will catch up when I get home, most live media is blocked in here. Question Time should be good tonight, I will have my usual 4 or 5 beers and the wife will end up turning it over as I wroth at the mouth in rage at the applaud thirsty panel.
Why is parliament virtually empty when PM and Leader of opposition are both in house?
Lunch time
Some of them do but the format doesn't really allow scrutiny. I mean if you can't respond to their answer or even call out a lie then how can you even debate.
The select committees are far better mechanisms for this.
Yes this is true, PMQ is a complete waste of time. There should be a mechanism to put the PM or MPs under scrutiny in front of the public because all the public on the whole are going to see is a 30 second clip on the news of PMQ and a crass interview by some numbskull journalist.
Even beyond the actual real consequences, there's no political incentive for the Irish government to accept it either as far as I can see.
Aside from Fine Gael, the two main opposition parties have variously said Johnson's deal is unacceptable, unworkable, shows a complete lack of regard for Ireland and must be rejected. Which means that if the Irish government caved in they would face a general election in which they are just short of being described as traitors by all other parties for (under the terms the government themselves set) betraying the GFA, not to mention heavily criticised by Irish businesses for agreeing to the imposition of this regime upon them. Political suicide, basically.
Or, they don't accept the deal and see what happens. Maybe a no deal is prevented, an extension is given and a UK general election occurs. Either Labour win (new government, possibly a better deal for Ireland available) or the Tories win (leaving Ireland facing the same terms as now anyway). Alternatively, a no deal goes ahead, the Irish electorate primarily blames the UK's government rather than their own and the border problem shifts into trade negotiations that will be led on the EU's side by a former minister of the Irish government.
I don't see why anyone would therefore expect these proposals to have legs, which lends itself to the opinion that nobody actually does expect it to have legs. It's just about dictating who takes the blame for the failure to negotiate a deal.
spending a whole bunch of time on a brexit plan with no input from the guys who need to agree to it (in this case, ireland, who are... kinda important players) and then presenting it to them just expecting them to accept it, is not a negotiation. it's just completely bonkers that ireland found out about this proposed brexit deal through the media, and received no insight into the details beforehand, or god forbid be involved in the actual planning. this is not a negotiation, it's all a farce.
'Failing' football managers are put under more media pressure.
Good post and 100% agree.
That will be the day that Boris would give specific answers to specify questions.
He has zero interest in understanding the details.
With him, it is all about posturing.
What perplexes me is how he continues to get away with it without being firmly challenged.
This is surely all leading towards a no-deal Brexit, either now or after another pointless extension? The political constraints all sides are under just means there is no realistic compromise available, unless the power dynamics between the parties in Westminster (or I guess the EU) change significantly.
The question then becomes what happens after no-deal? There will have to be some form of deal eventually. Are we just in a war of attrition where we wait and see who blinks first?
What a shit situation all round.
The question then becomes what happens after no-deal? There will have to be some form of deal eventually. Are we just in a war of attrition where we wait and see who blinks first?
What a shit situation all round.