Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
africanspur said:
Just funny to see the unreasonable Farage being disgusted by an apparently reasonable Tory politician.

I imagine May is doing this to appear tough and show that just because she 'campaigned' for remain, doesn't mean that she won't fight hard to leave now.
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No shes heartless. She proposed that a married Brit would need to earn £38000 before they could bring their partner into the country, it was shot down in coalition and I think Cameron came to his senses so it has not yet been implemented.

At 18600 the level is still too high for most Brits, family lives on hold to appese racists and little englanders
 
Stanley Road said:
So are you assuming the 50% all voted based on immigration?
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I would say a great number voted on immigration and yes people say that the entire country didn't vote, but that also means a great proportion of Brexiters didn't go to the polling stations either.

The reality is that this wanting 'control' back is bullshit for the vast majority of Brexiters and the main reason was immigration. This was proven when they did some research into the hot topics in the run up to the vote.. the key issue was freedom of movement and immigration,
 
Mozza said:
Every single Tory candidate has ruled out free movement, they have different ideas on other topics but on the former they agree. This referedum was won on immigration
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Don't forget the imaginary 350mill ;)


Immigration and that NHS funding bullshit, won that election.
If leave had not mentioned those two points at all in the campaign.
Remain would of won by a landslide.

I would be willing to bet that the minority of both sides did extensive research and know what they're talking about.
dem foweinger nick ma job. VOTE LEAVE!

Now obviously, I would rather we have a strict immigration policy and only let those in desperate need & those that would add something to our Country.
 
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M18CTID said:
Just a gut instinct mate. I think Farage's relevance has diminished now that he has got what he wanted and with that UKIP's relevance will diminish too - at the next election I'd be surprised if they get more than half the votes they got at the last one. The Conservatives might well lurch further right for a while but if Labour elect a leader that can engage with much of their disaffected voters then that brings them back into play and entices a lot of those UKIP protest voters back into the fold.

Interesting times for sure.
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Fair enough. Unfortunately, I don't quite hold your enthusiasm and I imagine that labour engaging with some of their disaffected voters unfortunately does mean lurching a bit closer to the conservatives on some issues.

We'll have to see how things pan out I guess.
 
sun_tzu said:
I think she is actually just being sensible.

Saying we are happy to negotiate a solution where EU nationals can stay but we would like to see reciprocal arrangements put in place so that UK citizens living in France, Spain etc can also remain.

Imagine the uproar if she announced all EU citizens can remain and then during the French elections a candidate says they will kick all the tossers out of provonce and we have to take them back.

I think the rhetoric needs to perhaps be a bit more favourable in terms of we very much want them to stay but we are waiting for our friends in the EU to reciprocate that message so that we know negotiations are being started in good faith.. but unfortunately most complex negotiations do turn into a bit of a pissing contest so the chances are any concession is going to have to be earned - though as the weaker party in the negotiation we are probably just going to have to grab our ankles at some point if we want access to the free market
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I think you can be 'sensible' with, as you're saying, much more suitable rhetoric than the one she's using. As the other candidates have been using and even tools like farage have been too.

The onus is on us as a country to reassure nationals living in our country. We're the ones who have voted to leave the eu and we're the ones who have allowed rhetoric against eastern Europeans I think it's fair to say, escalate slightly.

There's no reciprocal feeling towards bits in France or Spain for example, as far as I am aware.
 
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...t-for-eu-in-eurosceptic-nations-a3288071.html

After all the talk about a domino effect that might end the EU, it's interesting to see that people are actually looking at the consequences of Brexit rather than the rhetoric. If the UK suffers as a result of the referendum, it'll be interesting to see whether that affects polls of support for the EU or for eurosceptic parties like the National Front.

If the economists (or the majority of them at least) are right and it does damage than Brexit might have a silver lining for the EU.
 
Have we had a 'Theresa May...but probably won't' headline yet?
 
Brexit referendum feels less like a referendum with a choice between two things and more like a competition where we have to answer the question correctly - we picked the wrong answer. We will be worse off in the long run if we have another referendum and decide to stay in the EU, I think the EU will come down even harder on the UK if it's in the EU now than if it is outside. We've angered it, and like an abusive ex, one should never go back to them after they've been abusive.
 
horsechoker said:
Brexit referendum feels less like a referendum with a choice between two things and more like a competition where we have to answer the question correctly - we picked the wrong answer. We will be worse off in the long run if we have another referendum and decide to stay in the EU, I think the EU will come down even harder on the UK if it's in the EU now than if it is outside. We've angered it, and like an abusive ex, one should never go back to them after they've been abusive.
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I doubt that. First of all the EU would probably benefit if the UK stays in and secondly from what I understand the UK could just veto everything any form of "punishment". I also don't see how the UK has been abused, if anything it has been the other way around with British leaders using the EU as a political punching bag.
 
horsechoker said:
Brexit referendum feels less like a referendum with a choice between two things and more like a competition where we have to answer the question correctly - we picked the wrong answer. We will be worse off in the long run if we have another referendum and decide to stay in the EU, I think the EU will come down even harder on the UK if it's in the EU now than if it is outside. We've angered it, and like an abusive ex, one should never go back to them after they've been abusive.
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The EU abusive over the UK? Seriously? For years, the EU had stood patient as the UK repeatedly blamed and opposed everything remotely linked to the EU project including the very people who live in the EU. They kept sending idiots like Farage who didn't believe in the project and couldn't even bother turning up to most of the EU parliament votes. Cameron promised a referendum to score points among the racists and eurosceptics, and despite the clear vote of non confidence they sat with him and they gave him better terms. The leavers won and guess what, it turned out that Britain had no plan, their leaders have fled the sinking ship, Farage refuse to resign from the MEP parliament and they are expecting to start preliminary terms despite refusing to handle out the divorce papers. I really cant see how the EU was remotely abusive to the UK.


The truth is that the EU simply don't care at this point. Britain is becoming like that spoiled top model whose nice to have around as GF but is too demanding and spoiled to actually afford.What the EU want at this point is for Britain to activate article 50 and get on with it. Brussels are sick of Britain's tantrums, its simply not worthed.

However if it remains, well, Britain will simply have to work hard to get its credibility back. Stating that its not an impossible task to do that either. Take Germany as an example. It caused 2 world wars and brought the death of millions of people and yet nowadays its the EU flagship and a respectable nation throughout the world. Brexit shook Europe but its nothing compared to a global war.
 
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do.ob said:
I doubt that. First of all the EU would probably benefit if the UK stays in and secondly from what I understand the UK could just veto everything any form of "punishment". I also don't see how the UK has been abused, if anything it has been the other way around with British leaders using the EU as a political punching bag.
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Once article 50 has been activated, the EU will lead the game. Brussels will probably take it easy for 2 years only to give Britain a take it or leave it deal which will be heavily stacked in the EU favor That's why the UK are scared shit of activated article 50 and are pushing really hard for preliminary talks
 
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devilish said:
The EU simply don't care at this point. Don't take me wrong Britain is a rich country and it was nice having it around. However they have been bitching about anything remotely linked with the EU and threatening to leave for decades. What the EU want at this point is for Britain to activate article 50 and get on with it.
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I agree with your post above particularly that the EU will take it easy once article 50 has been activated. But they do genuinely care, I think that is obvious. From their perspective they would much rather the UK stay as that is a moderately rich and powerful country that pays in more than it takes out gone - the burden would fall heavier on Germany post actual Brexit. If Article 50 is called then it is in the EU who have the advantage, until then it's in the EU's interest to keep the UK in the union.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I agree with your post above particularly that the EU will take it easy once article 50 has been activated. But they do genuinely care, I think that is obvious. From their perspective they would much rather the UK stay as that is a moderately rich and powerful country that pays in more than it takes out gone - the burden would fall heavier on Germany post actual Brexit. If Article 50 is called then it is in the EU who have the advantage, until then it's in the EU's interest to keep the UK in the union.
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Its nice to have more money in the EU but they are not keen to bend over backwards to have it either. Britain will probably be told to either accept the Norway model or simply be denied access to the single market. Ultimately we all know who will be the bigger loser at this point.

I think the writing is pretty much on the wall and its evident whose getting desperate. All leavers leaders are resigning, UK politics are in shambles, Britain's economy had been hit hard and talks of Scotland, N Ireland and Giblitar leaving the Union are getting more real by the day. Westminster is begging for preliminary talks which are regularly being denied and they are hesitant in activating article 50. As said, Britain is perceived as that beautiful super model whose great to have around as girlfriend but is too spoiled and demanding for the EU to afford. If she is ready to lower her demands and stay in line than that would be great. If she wants to stick to her guns and leave, well, Europe will survive without it. All it has to do is to handle the divorce papers. However it can't expect any favours from the EU camp. Most are sick about her
 
devilish said:
Its nice to have more money in the EU but they are not keen to bend over backwards to have it either. Britain will probably be told to either accept the Norway model or simply be denied access to the single market. Ultimately we all know who will be the bigger loser at this point.

I think the writing is pretty much on the wall and its evident whose getting desperate. All leavers leaders are resigning, UK politics are in shambles, Britain's economy had been hit hard and talks of Scotland, N Ireland and Giblitar leaving the Union are getting more real by the day. Westminster is begging for preliminary talks which are regularly being denied and they are hesitant in activating article 50.
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Oh I don't think the EU will bend over backwards which is why I think if the UK decides to fully commit to leaving, the EU will want article invoked as soon as possible as it holds the cards. UK Politics is in a shambles but European politics is facing a cornerstone particularly given what is happening in Austria right now and with the French and German elections round the corner.

I was merely disputing your point the EU doesn't care right now. It clearly does, from their perspective it would be much preferable for the UK to stay. But if they follow through with the referendum result, it will want to make a show of what happens if you decide to leave.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Oh I don't think the EU will bend over backwards which is why I think if the UK decides to fully commit to leaving, the EU will want article invoked as soon as possible as it holds the cards. UK Politics is in a shambles but European politics is facing a cornerstone particularly given what is happening in Austria right now and with the French and German elections round the corner.

I was merely disputing your point the EU doesn't care right now. It clearly does, from their perspective it would be much preferable for the UK to stay. But if they follow through with the referendum result, it will want to make a show of what happens if you decide to leave.
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I think at this point no one really care whether the UK stays or leaves. They had created too much drama within the EU for their worth. All they want is for the UK to activate article 50 and end this drama. This period of uncertainty is hurting not just the EU but also the UK and there's a chance that irritation will soon turn into utter hate. History have taught us that becoming a scapegoat to a European wide recession is very bad news for the scapegoat itself.

If the UK decides to remain in the European union then the European union will adapt to that. However plenty of bridges will have to be mended at this point and for God's sake get rid of that Farage clown
 
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devilish said:
I think at this point no one really care whether the UK stays or leaves. They had created too much drama within the EU for their worth. All they want is for the UK to activate article 50 and end this drama. This period of uncertainty is hurting not just the EU but also the UK and there's a chance that irritation will soon turn into utter hate. History have taught us that becoming a scapegoat to a European wide recession is very bad news for the scapegoat itself.
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And that's where I disagree. I think particularly from Germany's point of view, it would be much more preferable for the UK to stay. Largely because while the scapegoat of a European wide recession is generally hated, the UK is very different from Greece as it won't be needing a bailout and is a contributor.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
And that's where I disagree. I think particularly from Germany's point of view, it would be much more preferable for the UK to stay. Largely because while the scapegoat of a European wide recession is generally hated, the UK is very different from Greece as it won't be needing a bailout and is a contributor.
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Without the UK, Germany will simply pay a bit more, it will expect others to do the same and it will tighten belt. There's already talks of an EU Budget reduction of 10%. It would be a temporary thing as money will be flowing back either with the UK agreeing to be part of the EEA (which means they will have to pay as much as before) or alternatively by Britain losing access to the Single market which will lead its lucrative financial services business to Paris or Frankfurt. Having said that with Germany stepping up, it will gain even more influence over the EU and that's great for them on the long term.

Once again read the signs of times. Its not the EU whose begging for the UK to file the divorce papers and its not the EU whose hesitant in doing so. Farage and Johnson are the ones jumping ship not Merkel or Hollande. Also its not Bavaria whose threatening to leave Germany but Scotland, N Ireland and Gibraltar.

I believe that the leavers had been lying about the UK importance in the EU so much that soon enough they started to believe their own lies. Now truth has come back to haunt them and its not nice. The UK was great to have around but they are not instrumental for the EU project especially since there are other ways for the EU to force them to fork the money in the EU budget. In my country we got a say (I wonder if its been stolen from the Brits so I apologise beforehand). The small fish isn't able to eat the big fish ie when you're small you better take a pinch of humility and negotiate with the big guy because if you confront him he'll probably mess you up big time.
 
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devilish said:
Without the UK, Germany will simply pay a bit more, it will expect others to do the same and it will tighten belt. There's already talks of an EU Budget reduction of 10%. It would be a temporary thing as money will be flowing back either with the UK agreeing to be part of the EEA (which means they will have to pay as much as before) or alternatively by Britain losing access to the Single market which will lead its lucrative financial services business to Paris or Frankfurt. Having said that with Germany stepping up, it will gain even more influence over the EU and that's great for them on the long term.

Once again read the signs of times. Its not the EU whose begging for the UK to file the divorce papers and its not the EU whose hesitant in doing so. Farage and Johnson are the ones jumping ship not Merkel or Hollande. Also its not Bavaria whose threatening to leave Germany but Scotland, N Ireland and Gibraltar.

I believe that the leavers had been lying about the UK importance in the EU so much that soon enough they started to believe their own lies. Now truth has come back to haunt them and its not nice
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Yeah Germany would pay more, which is exactly the last thing Merkel would want to sell back during an election year. Maybe Germany would benefit in the long term as being the figurehead for the EU but do they really want to carry the burdens of Southern Europe all by themselves particularly given France's own issues. In recent years Merkel has seen Cameron as a strong ally against Southern Europe.

I think you're deluding yourself about the UK's lack of importance in the EU, it is part of the reason why the UK has had preferential terms before. The truth that has come back to haunt the Leavers was not the UK's importance in the EU, but the rather the EU's importance to the UK.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
Yeah Germany would pay more, which is exactly the last thing Merkel would want to sell back during an election year. Maybe Germany would benefit in the long term as being the figurehead for the EU but do they really want to carry the burdens of Southern Europe all by themselves particularly given France's own issues. In recent years Merkel has seen Cameron as a strong ally against Southern Europe.

I think you're deluding yourself about the UK's lack of importance in the EU, it is part of the reason why the UK has had preferential terms before. The truth that has come back to haunt the Leavers was not the UK's importance in the EU, but the rather the EU's importance to the UK.
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It wont carry 'all the burdens' as the budget will be reduced for everybody, Britain will be desperate to access the single market (ie the EEA) which means they will have to pay and if they don't, well, the financial services will simply leave and move to Frankfurt etc. Also general elections in Germany is 1 year away and Britain will still be in the EU by that time and it will still be forking money inside the project.

The UK is incredibly important for the EU but not the way the little englanders see it. Britain could provide an alternative successful project to its EU allies which varies from the rigid austerity based Germany one. If British politics was filled with statesmen instead of spoiled brats, clowns and quitters then it would have worked hard to build alliances in the EU and become as influential as Germany is. Many countries want a EU reform but they need a leader to rally the troops ie someone with a successful financial model that actually works. The UK could have been that leader. Outside the EU Britain has no say, no veto and no power within the single market.
 
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horsechoker said:
Brexit referendum feels less like a referendum with a choice between two things and more like a competition where we have to answer the question correctly - we picked the wrong answer.
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Drifter said:
Farage will be choking on his beer from that article.
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Farage is enjoying his MEP salary which will be followed by a great pension soon afterwards. He will drink on behalf of the idiotic working class/elderly person who kept him in Brussels as comic relief for so many years (when he bothered showing up, Ukip MEPs are the laziest MEPs around) instead of having people who could reform the EU in a productive way
 
devilish said:
Its nice to have more money in the EU but they are not keen to bend over backwards to have it either. Britain will probably be told to either accept the Norway model or simply be denied access to the single market. Ultimately we all know who will be the bigger loser at this point.
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If UK did end up getting the Norway deal, it would be a win for the UK. The UK would be able to venture outside of the EU and still be a part of the single market. It would practically be the best of both worlds. Dont get me wrong, it would suck for the poltitcian who has to inform the leave voters that the free movement will not stop, but for the UK long term it would be an awesome deal.

devilish said:
I think the writing is pretty much on the wall and its evident whose getting desperate. All leavers leaders are resigning, UK politics are in shambles, Britain's economy had been hit hard and talks of Scotland, N Ireland and Giblitar leaving the Union are getting more real by the day. Westminster is begging for preliminary talks which are regularly being denied and they are hesitant in activating article 50.
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I dont think you get the situation here, UK is not triggering article 50 because it wants to rig the game first. By the time the article 50 is triggered, the large businesses would have been brought on board with a commitment to stay in London. Corporate tax rates would have been lowered to ensure that big business doesnt leave London. Only then would the UK go to table with a firm hand.

As for splitting, Unionism is fairly strong in NI and they wont leave the UK even if England wanted them to leave, even their leading party was pro-leave. Anyone who thinks Gibraltar would leave to become a part of spain or an independent country is a total looney.

As for Scotland, they wont be given a referendum till the UK-EU deal is finalised. Once the deal is final, they might get a referendum (depending upon how SNP does in the 2020 general election). I dont think many would shed a tear if scotland left apart from the labour party as scotland leaving the UK would guarantee them not having power for another 10-15 years.
 
AshfordLad said:
If UK did end up getting the Norway deal, it would be a win for the UK. The UK would be able to venture outside of the EU and still be a part of the single market. It would practically be the best of both worlds. Dont get me wrong, it would suck for the poltitcian who has to inform the leave voters that the free movement will not stop, but for the UK long term it would be an awesome deal.
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If you feel that paying more into the EU, accepting its rules without any complaint and having no say whatsoever, is a win, then be my guest.


I dont think you get the situation here, UK is not triggering article 50 because it wants to rig the game first. By the time the article 50 is triggered, the large businesses would have been brought on board with a commitment to stay in London. Corporate tax rates would have been lowered to ensure that big business doesnt leave London. Only then would the UK go to table with a firm hand.

As for splitting, Unionism is fairly strong in NI and they wont leave the UK even if England wanted them to leave, even their leading party was pro-leave. Anyone who thinks Gibraltar would leave to become a part of spain or an independent country is a total looney.

As for Scotland, they wont be given a referendum till the UK-EU deal is finalised. Once the deal is final, they might get a referendum (depending upon how SNP does in the 2020 general election). I dont think many would shed a tear if scotland left apart from the labour party as scotland leaving the UK would guarantee them not having power for another 10-15 years.
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Corporate tax can be lowered at any time without the need to lie to the electorate by not delivering the goods immediately as promised or having the economy go crushing to the ground due to this uncertainity. The UK is not triggering article 50 for two reasons. First and foremost they need the single market. The UK cannot be the financial centre of Europe without it being in Europe (the EU and EEA is mostly Europe this days). Also once they activate it it will be a race against time. It will have just 2 years to convince everybody to a deal, which will probably see the UK begging to every single country in doing so. This will probably end up in a take it or leave it deal which will be heavily stacked towards the EU countries.

There's a reason why British politicians are fleeing like rats from a sinking ship and why Theresa is begging for preliminary talks. This will not end well
 
devilish said:
If you feel that paying more into the EU, accepting its rules without any complaint and having no say whatsoever, is a win, then be my guest.
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Yes it will be a great deal for the UK. We will no longer be restricted by italian tomato farmers to deal with India or China. UK will get back its fishing waters.

Paying the current fees and allowing free movement of labour is an ok price for access to the EU market.

devilish said:
Corporate tax can be lowered at any time without the need to lie to the electorate by not delivering the goods immediately as promised or having the economy go crushing to the ground due to this uncertainity. The UK is not triggering article 50 for two reasons. First and foremost they need the single market. The UK cannot be the financial centre of Europe without it being in Europe (the EU and EEA is mostly Europe this days). Also once they activate it it will be a race against time. It will have just 2 years to convince everybody to a deal, which will probably see the UK begging to every single country in doing so. This will probably end up in a take it or leave it deal which will be heavily stacked towards the EU countries.
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You have a lot of incoherent thoughts there. The UK is not financial centre of Europe, its the financial centre of the world tbh and will remain tha same regardless of EU. Hardly 10% of jobs in UK FS will move if no deal is agreed.

If you really think that every members opinion will me heard for a UK-EU deal then you are naive. The three big boys (UK, France and Germany) will sort it out within themselves. The tone from Germany (and even France) is quite favourable, no one else matters.

UK does not have a week hand in this negotiation by any means, that is not the reason for the ruckus. Its because this contingency planning was not done earlier and it came as a surprise. Once the surprise factor wears off its going to be a straight forward negotiation. Especially given the lunetics from vote leave now have no chance of taking power.
 
AshfordLad said:
Yes it will be a great deal for the UK. We will no longer be restricted by italian tomato farmers to deal with India or China. UK will get back its fishing waters.

Paying the current fees and allowing free movement of labour is an ok price for access to the EU market.
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As said, if it means obeying all EU rules, not have any say whatsoever, pay a premium for access in the single market and accepting unrestricted freedom of movement is great for the UK, then be my guest.

You have a lot of incoherent thoughts there. The UK is not financial centre of Europe, its the financial centre of the world tbh and will remain tha same regardless of EU. Hardly 10% of jobs in UK FS will move if no deal is agreed.

If you really think that every members opinion will me heard for a UK-EU deal then you are naive. The three big boys (UK, France and Germany) will sort it out within themselves. The tone from Germany (and even France) is quite favourable, no one else matters.

UK does not have a week hand in this negotiation by any means, that is not the reason for the ruckus. Its because this contingency planning was not done earlier and it came as a surprise. Once the surprise factor wears off its going to be a straight forward negotiation. Especially given the lunetics from vote leave now have no chance of taking power.
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Lets see how businesses will fare once the single market's door is closed to them. There again who cares about what experts say right?

Also if the EU is so trivial to you guys and you're so important then why not immediately activate article 50? Surely being boys yourself you can easily sort a deal with the two other big boys in just two years right?

The UK needs the single market and despite being richer then the average country it simply doesn't have the negotiating strength it needs to force the deal it wants. The UK is not the US or Canada who are so big, that they can be considered as continents on its own. Its just a small country the size of 1/3 of Texas and which have problems keeping the whole thing together.

This reality is slowly sinking in, hence why so many politicians are fleeing the sinking ship. I cant blame them. How can anyone believe in getting a good deal when it cant even keep their house in order or convince the other side to start preliminary talks? Its evident whose winning here.

Also please note that any country can Veto a deal if its not right for them and there's plenty of countries who are pissed off with the UK. You cant blame them considering that it had used their citizens as scapegoat for ever ills in the world.Not to forget that its within the EU interest not to give a good deal to the British else everyone would start considering leaving.

Ah and I almost forgot. Good luck sealing a trade deal with China whose favourable for the British. Considering that they are the size of a continent, they are a financial superpower and they cant care less for 'trivial things' like human rights, high safety/quality standards in terms of food/products, then that would be interesting. You may soon have tomatoes with poison for lunch.
 
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devilish said:
As said, if it means obeying all EU rules, not have any say whatsoever, pay a premium for access in the single market and accepting unrestricted freedom of movement is great for the UK, then be my guest.
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You dont get it do you. UK will get freedom to do its own deals that alone is worth the price. EU rules were already being followed regardless. Now they will only be need to be followed by the companies dealing with EU rather than everyone.

To put it simply, A deal where youre wife is lets you to get on with the office sluts as long as you play by her rules when you are at home and pay her for groceries. Sounds like a fun deal.

devilish said:
Lets see how businesses will fare once the single market's door is closed to them. There again who cares about what experts say right? Also if the EU is so trivial to you guys then why not activate article 50?
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Single market door is closed. :lol: If the door is closed 8% of highly unionised french workforce will become redundant. France will see crippling strkies much worse than the one's seen this year.

Why not activate article 50 right now? Read my earlier post. Our govt was so confident of a remain vote that they did not do any ground work. Once this ground work is done, it will be a straight forward process.

devilish said:
Why is everyone fleeing the sinking ship. Regarding the UK being a big boy, well, its quite ironic considering that it cant even convince the EU to start preliminary talks with it. I guess some have truly overrated their strength in the past years
The big boys have a big say however any country can Veto a deal if its not right. Also its within the EU interest not to give a good deal to the British else everyone would start considering leaving.
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If you think UK is not the bigboy of the group then you are deluding yourself. Furthermore, if you think any country will be able to stop a deal if France and Germany agreed then its just laughable.

Both UK and EU will try to show their voters that they negotiated hard and will present a win for their side. In the end nothing much will change.
 
AshfordLad said:
Yes it will be a great deal for the UK. We will no longer be restricted by italian tomato farmers to deal with India or China. UK will get back its fishing waters.

Paying the current fees and allowing free movement of labour is an ok price for access to the EU market.
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Most of the Leave campaign and, by all accounts, voters would disagree. The fees, rule making power and freedom of movement were by far the biggest issues talked about.
 
AshfordLad said:
You dont get it do you. UK will get freedom to do its own deals that alone is worth the price. EU rules were already being followed regardless. Now they will only be need to be followed by the companies dealing with EU rather than everyone.

To put it simply, A deal where youre wife is lets you to get on with the office sluts as long as you play by her rules when you are at home and pay her for groceries. Sounds like a fun deal.


Single market door is closed. :lol: If the door is closed 8% of highly unionised french workforce will become redundant. France will see crippling strkies much worse than the one's seen this year.

Why not activate article 50 right now? Read my earlier post. Our govt was so confident of a remain vote that they did not do any ground work. Once this ground work is done, it will be a straight forward process.


If you think UK is not the bigboy of the group then you are deluding yourself. Furthermore, if you think any country will be able to stop a deal if France and Germany agreed then its just laughable.

Both UK and EU will try to show their voters that they negotiated hard and will present a win for their side. In the end nothing much will change.
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You don't have any idea idea how trade deals work don't you? Have you ever heard about economy of scale? So let me give you an idea. You've got two nations who are sealing a trade deal. Both will want things done their way and the one whose got the biggest clout tend to get the lionshare of things.

So lets say the UK want a trade deal with China. China may be ok with that as long as products are produced to its own standards and most of the deal are made according to its rules. Now lets say the UK complain that it doesn't want toys being produced with poisonous stuff or they don't want crap being sprayed on its tomatoes . Do you think that China, will just change its entire industry for a tiny country the size of 1/3 of Texas? Do you seriously believe that you will be in a position to tell the US to stick TTIP up their arse because Westminster doesn't like this or that clause? Why would the US even bother offering you the same deal it gave the EU when you're smaller and more isolated? They might as well bully you in a worse deal.

That's exactly what is happening with the EU at the very moment and that's why the UK is begging for preliminary talks instead of keeping its promise with the electorate and trigger article 50 immediately. They know that they cant afford losing the single market and if they do trigger article 50 without any preliminary promise then things will get sour. The EU takes ages to seal a deal. Such delay is necessary because it has nearly 30 countries to deal with and its standards are pretty high. Take Canada as an example. Canada had always been an ally to the EU, its a continent in its own right, it has high standards in terms of quality and human rights and yet even they had to wait 7 years to sort a deal. What would happen to a much smaller country, whose so dependent on the single market, who had just pissed off most of the countries by insulting them and whom the EU's very existence depends in it not giving the UK a good deal in the first place (to avoid creating a precedence?)? No to forget that one's misfortune is usually one's fortune. Frankfurt and Paris wouldn't mind becoming Europe Financial center wouldn't they?

Regarding 'big boys' no one in Europe is a big boy. All individual countries are a drop of rain compared to the true giants ie India, China, the US, Canada and Russia. We're a heavily fragmented continent made up of elderly people, with little natural resources and who have found guilty of ruining the world thanks to colonialism and two world wars. Countries like China and the US are continents on its own rights, they have resources, they are autonomous and they have great potential. That's why Germany, France and co had ganged up together and that's why we are trying to make this not perfect union work. GB was a great asset in the European union but in isolation its the Guernsey of the world.

If the UK is lucky to be offered Norway's deal, it will have to abide to EU laws, it will have to contribute greatly in the budget, it will have to accept unlimited EU immigration and on top of that it must do that in silence. Rules can and will change but you will have no say whatsoever. The British voice doesn't matter in Europe anymore. That's the best case scenario btw.

I talk from experience mate. Its not nice being that small isolated island sitting at the fringes of Europe. If Malta didn't do Maltexit and instead became British then the UK (including us) would have been richer and safer.
 
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