Depends how desperate the power mongers in Brussels get.
A lot more depends on Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and he's taking Turkey in a very different direction.
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- Thread starter Silva
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A lot more depends on Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, and he's taking Turkey in a very different direction.
Fair enough - I wasn't aware that they were pro-Brexit. It's an interesting read though and it does contain direct quotes from some of the countries cited in the article.
I think Turkey are decades away from becoming a member of the EU - it's a slow burner and unless something happens where they're fast-tracked in it's unlikely they'll be a member by 2030-2035 at the earliest IMO.
Farage is jumping ship, that rat.
Wait,jumping what ship? Dont tell me he wont stay around to overlook for something he fought for and convincing people of UK to vote for his option?
Turkey ain't joining the EU, especially after their resumption of diplomatic relations with Russia...
And it was a shambolic set up last week too. As I said in the post you replied to, I don't understand why this couldn't have been set out beforehand.
If the country voted Remain, Cameron stays and everything continues as normal. If we voted Brexit, the majority of senior politicians quit including the prime minister and political infighting begins. Surely this was obviously going to happen and plans should have been put into place to avoid it. The uncertainty isn't good for anyone.
The Leave campaign should have been better prepared for winning for the sake of the country. I can't believe they've won and every single leading member of the campaign is resigning! It's an absolutely ridiculous state of affairs.
But the Daily Express said talks have begun!
Every single one! Farage has stepped down as party leader that's all. None of the other Leavers have resigned or left.
Sorry, I've confused resigning with going into hiding. Whoever is left negotiating the terms of Brexit is fecked and they all know it. No Remain voters will be happy and they'll inevitably end up pissing off half the Brexit crowd too. There's no way terms can ever be agreed upon that will give us favourable trade agreements and stop free movement. They were surely the main reasons to vote Brexit, so a huge propertion of Brexit voters are going to be unhappy either way.
Well none of them have gone into hiding either. Three are standing for the Tory leadership and the rest are available to assist if asked to by the government. They have to have permission from the government to act in an official capacity.
Here is my view on this. For now, at least, if the vote is going to be respected it has to mean exactly what was on the ballot and no more. It did not say that immigration would be reduced, it did not say that investment in the NHS would go up, it did not say that we would start repealing specific EU legislation. It says we leave the EU. I think that, in itself, is OK and if we get it right we can do that and not royally feck things up for lots of people for many years.
Noone wants to say this as it will piss off many Leave voters and maybe even some Remain voters who are hoping not to leave at all but it seems like the most sensible way forward and the way I expect Theresa May to navigate before as I fervently hope she is set aside.
talks have begun, and have been going on for ten years! thier no closer to joining thou. maybe happen 10, 15 years down the line or summit, but never really understood why everyone was making a fuss about it doesn't really change anyones arguments.
if turkey joining tomorrow the arguments would still be the same, leave would be saying immigration is to high and needs controlling, and stay would be arguing high immigration is good for economy and its free trade that matters.
whether turkey joins doesn't join or goes back to making a lot of furniture (Eddie Izzard joke) doesn't really matter!
Ok, good job picking up on my exaggerated point. It must be catching on - Perhaps I was influenced by all the referendum propaganda after all.
My point was that a clear Brexit leader should have been chosen before the referendum. I don't really give a feck about the pedantic nitpicking you selected out of my post.
Although I agree, a lot of people based their votes on promises that would never, and could never, be kept.
Perhaps you should just have gone with that then. Twas only because you went into outrageous mode over nothing much that I aimed to show it wasn't anything to get particularly outraged about.
A leader of what? People vote to leave the EU and that automatically appoints a new leader of the country?
Why can't people understand the difference between campaigners and governance for crying out loud. If this displeases leave voters well they had a chance to vote UKIP in the very recent GE and then Farage would have been in charge. As it is he's not even an MP.
Well yea, this is basically happening! It must have been known that Cameron would go as his position would become untenable. My point is that most voters seemed unaware of this and could have made a better informed decision if, A. They knew, and B. They knew who would replace him.
I think because it was a vote between the status quo or against it, there was inevitably going to be a pretty motley coalition in favour of leaving that wouldn't last long. UKIP and Johnson/Gove wanted very different things that are mutually contradictory but allied for a while to get Britain out. Hannan's loosely regulated paradise doesn't mesh with Farage's Little England. I think thats why they never picked a leader (because they knew it would split the entire Leave campaign in 2 very publicly) and why they never listed a clear plan (because it would piss off half their voters straight away). They kept it vague and tried to be all things to all people.
It just gets funnier by the day with Farage stepping down.
The leave party, the party without a plan. "Well we won, we didn't expect this -- you aren't laughing now, I wouldn't have made the promise of 350m a week, I have done my job now its time for a change in leadership."
You just can't write this. British politics.
The leave party, the party without a plan. "Well we won, we didn't expect this -- you aren't laughing now, I wouldn't have made the promise of 350m a week, I have done my job now its time for a change in leadership."
You just can't write this. British politics.
Yep
The UK independance party has acheived its objective. It no longer has a purpose, which is why its members will now probably be dispersed among the conservative and Labour.
Farage has tirelessly campaigned to get Britain out of Europe. Job done.
Exactly the way I saw UKIP going in the wake of a Brexit vote - they'll go back to becoming an irrelevant fringe party. I know there were concerns that there would be a rise in support for far-right politics in future but I see the opposite happening. Of course, a big part of that requires the main parties to sort themselves out and re-engage with the masses.
I don't see that at all. I think Farage is completely right when he says that at the very least they'll be sticking around to ensure that Brexit happens along the lines that they and their supporters wanted. And if it doesn't, I'm sure they'll have a thing or two to say about that.
I certainly don't see how people envisage politics becoming more central/ left as some have said, what is the thinking behind that?
Even Farage is saying he's 'disgusted' by how May is talking about the EU nationals already here.
What on earth is going on?
What on earth is going on?
How is the job done? We're not out of Europe yet.
It would be nice if some of the leave campaigners could hang around and finish what they started.
Politics.
Just funny to see the unreasonable Farage being disgusted by an apparently reasonable Tory politician.
I imagine May is doing this to appear tough and show that just because she 'campaigned' for remain, doesn't mean that she won't fight hard to leave now.
I think she is actually just being sensible.
Saying we are happy to negotiate a solution where EU nationals can stay but we would like to see reciprocal arrangements put in place so that UK citizens living in France, Spain etc can also remain.
Imagine the uproar if she announced all EU citizens can remain and then during the French elections a candidate says they will kick all the tossers out of provonce and we have to take them back.
I think the rhetoric needs to perhaps be a bit more favourable in terms of we very much want them to stay but we are waiting for our friends in the EU to reciprocate that message so that we know negotiations are being started in good faith.. but unfortunately most complex negotiations do turn into a bit of a pissing contest so the chances are any concession is going to have to be earned - though as the weaker party in the negotiation we are probably just going to have to grab our ankles at some point if we want access to the free market
No I think she genuinely thinks it's about bargaining power. Which is nonsense of course, a loose promise that we'd negotiate
to ensure they could stay now doesn't mean we're committed in any way or form.
She's well known as being quite frank and emotionless on everything she does. I detest Osbourne but if May had his position we'd have seen a lot worse cuts in order for her to achieve her goal. She failed on immigration but it was only because it was impossible, she still used underhand tactics to attempt to do so.
Just a gut instinct mate. I think Farage's relevance has diminished now that he has got what he wanted and with that UKIP's relevance will diminish too - at the next election I'd be surprised if they get more than half the votes they got at the last one. The Conservatives might well lurch further right for a while but if Labour elect a leader that can engage with much of their disaffected voters then that brings them back into play and entices a lot of those UKIP protest voters back into the fold.
Interesting times for sure.
Additionally this labelling of Leave voters as racists doesn't really hold up given the recent polls show they're resolutely behind the right for EU citizens currently residing here to stay. Even UKIP supporters were in favour.
A ray of hope that our country isn't completely mad.
A ray of hope that our country isn't completely mad.
What polls are they?
Say if we didn't come out the EU and things went back to normal, has this referendum debacle put off Europeans coming here knowing that 50% of the people here would not welcome their presence?
It was on the Guardian Live blog this morning but they've done their trick of burying it as I can't find it now.
Anyway another source from a quick Google although I'm not sure it's the same poll.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_5778b38ae4b0f7b5579552e4?edition=uk
I think the population of the U.K. is estimated to be about 65 million. Given that the total votes for leave came in at around 17.5 million it's not really 50% of the country.
I'd also say that not everyone who voted leave is against immigration. I can see why some might come to the conclusion that they aren't welcome though. Immigration is always considered a key issue in politics and is always being talked about as an issue (I think it's massively overplayed personally).
Fair point. I suppose this is the answer to my question. A flawed system, but the only way it was possible for the leave campaign to work.
So are you assuming the 50% all voted based on immigration?
This made me chuckle.
Peter Hargreaves @PkhPeter Jul 2
Djokovic out of Wimbledon. It's the wrong result will cause depression & destroy tennis, just wrong we need a rematch to get right result.
Peter Hargreaves @PkhPeter Jul 2Djokovic out of Wimbledon. It's the wrong result will cause depression & destroy tennis, just wrong we need a rematch to get right result.