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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Infra-red said:
Yes I'd assume that she will encourage everyone to vote against 'no deal' tonight and also against the extension tomorrow.

She can then say that those two options have been ruled out, and give the commons a final vote, right on the deadline - a straight choice between her deal and unilateral revocation of A50.

Would he hilarious just to see the reactions of the Brexiteers. It would also have the potential to permanently destroy the Conservative Party... perhaps there might be some ancillary benefits to Brexit afterall.
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No, parliamentary votes don't work like that, they either vote for a motion or against it, they don't get to choose between two. They could vote to withdraw A50 on it's own, but as both major parties are committed to Brexit that vote would fail.

The actual 'choice' will be between May's deal and hard Brexit, but only because Brexit is already passed in law, it's the 'do nothing' default situation if every other motion fails.
 
So the DUP will vote against taking No-Deal off the table, but they don’t want no deal, they think the UK should threaten the EU with No-Deal. Class
 
I saw it on the Guardian live blog. Will look for links
Silva said:
yeah we can, A50 just says that a member state can leave by giving the EU a written letter saying the state is leaving. it doesn't have much else to it
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Flying high said:
Do you have a link for that? My understanding, though I admit this could be wrong.....

We can rescind then reinstate. However, we could not do this as a ploy or tactic to somehow gain the upper hand. That is to say, if we had intended to soon reinstate it at the time we rescind it, the we would be deemed to be gaming the system. So if the current government were to withdraw a50, the some time down the road there were a material change(election or referendum, in essence), then we could reinstate a50 as a fresh attempt.
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Gove said today in response to Ken Clarke that we couldnt, according to the ECJ
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Damian Green, the Tory former first secretary of state, is speaking now. He has tabled what is known as the Malthouse compromise amendment.

Referring to the most controversial part of the amendment, paragraph 3, he acknowledges that Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, has said this proposal (a transition without the UK having to agree to the backstop, basically) is unacceptable. But he says if the government just did everything Barnier said, it would never get anywhere.

He urges MPs to back the amendment, saying it offers a way forward.


There are no words
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It’s surely just political positioning at this point, even the Hard Brexit Tories can’t be that deluded. In other words, when the sunlit uplands filled with frolicking unicorns fail to appear, they can point out that they approved this very reasonable deal and the nasty EU refused to budge.
 
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Anna Soubry is bringing it home right now.
 
JPRouve said:
I get where you are coming from. I put an emphasis on the multiple "ifs" while you focus on one particular scenario where a 21 months extension would make sense. I can't say that you are wrong because that wouldn't be consistent with my point about the fact that we can't tell until member states have more information about the purpose of the extension but I don't think that it's fair to say that the EU is more favorable to a lengthy extension because the quotes do not exclude the fact that EU leaders could be against an extension or that a three month technical extension could "cut it".

The thing that we know is that today without a clear decision made by the UK, no extension is the default position. I hope that you see my point.
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I do. And thanks for your help. I'm genuinely grateful for any clarity that anyone can add.
 
Love when these MPs say there will be a vote against no deal and then we will make a deal that works for Britain .Meaningless words.
 
Flying high said:
(sorry about the slow response)


Honestly, no. I want us to remain, anything else is just plain stupid. Whichever way you try to cut it. Membership costs us a relatively small amount and brings many benefits. We have always been 'sovereign'.

My 2nd choice would be a full fat no deal brexit. Because I'm frankly sick of morons getting on t.v. and radio to say nothing more insightful than 'JUST LEAVE'. It's getting to the stage where I just want them to really get to grips with how much damage they are going to cause.
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You crazy man.

My first choice is Remain. My second choice is Remain. My third choice is Remain.

But - a 52% remain vote wouldn't solve this crisis. It wouldn't move us forward. There would be mini-riots on the streets, similar to the London ones (I really believe that). The papers won't accept it. People will talk about democracy being dead. It will go on forever.

We need to find a compromise that 90% of the population can live with. I suspect that is a "UK" version of the EFTA (not membership of the EFTA, but replicating it). Even partnering with the EU on many things and negotiating some trade deals with the EU together (where it is mutually beneficial to do so)
 
Andrew Bridgen is a horrible little scrote.
 
rcoobc said:
You crazy man.

My first choice is Remain. My second choice is Remain. My third choice is Remain.

But - a 52% remain vote wouldn't solve this crisis. It wouldn't move us forward. There would be mini-riots on the streets, similar to the London ones (I really believe that). The papers won't accept it. People will talk about democracy being dead. It will go on forever.

We need to find a compromise that 90% of the population can live with. I suspect that is a "UK" version of the EFTA (not membership of the EFTA, but replicating it). Even partnering with the EU on many things and negotiating some trade deals with the EU together (where it is mutually beneficial to do so)
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What does " the papers won't accept it" even mean.

Let the idiots riot and they'll end up in prison with the rest of the knuckle draggers
 
Kentonio said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...f-article-50-extension?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Fecking traitors. This shit should be illegal as hell.
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It's a problem. Right-wing euro-sceptic governments are on the rise, here in Italy Salvini is becoming far more prominent and popular than his coalition partner from 5 Star (also right-wing, but more inclusive).

However, if the extension to Article 50 is blocked by one of the other member states, I would hope that the only position would be to revoke it.
 
Sassy Colin said:
In what way?
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Just laid out the facts about a no deal brexit, the damage it would cause and called out those that will vote for it as being hell bent on an agenda with little care for consequences.
 
rcoobc said:
You crazy man.

My first choice is Remain. My second choice is Remain. My third choice is Remain.

But - a 52% remain vote wouldn't solve this crisis. It wouldn't move us forward. There would be mini-riots on the streets, similar to the London ones (I really believe that). The papers won't accept it. People will talk about democracy being dead. It will go on forever.

We need to find a compromise that 90% of the population can live with. I suspect that is a "UK" version of the EFTA (not membership of the EFTA, but replicating it). Even partnering with the EU on many things and negotiating some trade deals with the EU together (where it is mutually beneficial to do so)
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Let them riot, then let the army out on the street with rubber bullets and live rounds. Then they might get a little taster of what it was like to live in NI during the troubles seeing as they’re all so happy to walk away from a peace treaty
 
Penna said:
It's a problem. Right-wing euro-sceptic governments are on the rise, here in Italy Salvini is becoming far more prominent and popular than his coalition partner from 5 Star (also right-wing, but more inclusive).

However, if the extension to Article 50 is blocked by one of the other member states, I would hope that the only position would be to revoke it.
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Can you imagine that! The brexiteers try to be clever getting the extension blocked and so we end up having to revoke A50 as no deal has been voted down. That would be sweet.
 
Penna said:
It's a problem. Right-wing euro-sceptic governments are on the rise, here in Italy Salvini is becoming far more prominent and popular than his coalition partner from 5 Star (also right-wing, but more inclusive).

However, if the extension to Article 50 is blocked by one of the other member states, I would hope that the only position would be to revoke it.
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It’s actually a criminal offense in the US although they almost never prosecute it.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
Can you imagine that! The brexiteers try to be clever getting the extension blocked and so we end up having to revoke A50 as no deal has been voted down. That would be sweet.
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It would be sweet - but the amendments to tonight's motion are key, really.

It's all astonishing, really. And Cameron sits in his swanky new shed, having caused all of this for party political reasons.
 
Fox trying out his leadership speech, they're so obvious it's pathetic
 
Smores said:
What does " the papers won't accept it" even mean.

Let the idiots riot and they'll end up in prison with the rest of the knuckle draggers
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It means, if there were *some* calls for a second referendum after the first one, there will be ten times as many calls for a third one.

The Telegraph, the Sun, the Mail (even with it's new chief), all the right-wing press will keep on and on. 40% of MPs will want it. The tories will vote for a leader who wants another referendum.

It will never end.
 
rcoobc said:
It means, if there were *some* calls for a second referendum after the first one, there will be ten times as many calls for a third one.

The Telegraph, the Sun, the Mail (even with it's new chief), all the right-wing press will keep on and on. 40% of MPs will want it. The tories will vote for a leader who wants another referendum.

It will never end.
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it will never end no matter what happens
 
Silva said:
it will never end no matter what happens
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At least I've had 40-odd years of being British and part of Europe, with all the benefits that that entails. I'll still be British and part of Europe, but not whilst living in the UK. Brexit has been the over-riding reason why we have become Italian residents.

What makes me sad is to think that so many who voted leave probably aren't even giving it a second thought now. They certainly won't be watching parliamentary debates online on a Wednesday night.
 
rcoobc said:
You crazy man.

My first choice is Remain. My second choice is Remain. My third choice is Remain.

But - a 52% remain vote wouldn't solve this crisis. It wouldn't move us forward. There would be mini-riots on the streets, similar to the London ones (I really believe that). The papers won't accept it. People will talk about democracy being dead. It will go on forever.

We need to find a compromise that 90% of the population can live with. I suspect that is a "UK" version of the EFTA (not membership of the EFTA, but replicating it). Even partnering with the EU on many things and negotiating some trade deals with the EU together (where it is mutually beneficial to do so)
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I am starting to think this is the least worst solution. Effectively some sort of BRINO (in name only).
 
rcoobc said:
You crazy man.

My first choice is Remain. My second choice is Remain. My third choice is Remain.

But - a 52% remain vote wouldn't solve this crisis. It wouldn't move us forward. There would be mini-riots on the streets, similar to the London ones (I really believe that). The papers won't accept it. People will talk about democracy being dead. It will go on forever.

We need to find a compromise that 90% of the population can live with. I suspect that is a "UK" version of the EFTA (not membership of the EFTA, but replicating it). Even partnering with the EU on many things and negotiating some trade deals with the EU together (where it is mutually beneficial to do so)
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We know that the leave vote was overwhelmingly carried by the older generations. I am not too worried about riots etc. I would rather a few people get offended and feel betrayed, than the entire country gets fecked.

Putting it another way - surely following through with Brexit despite all of the warning signs, sets a very dangerous precedent that we [the country] arent interested in experts, and that public opinion must always be right.

There is a popular (and largely inaccurate) phrase that "the customer is always right". If you offered a referendum on drastically cutting taxes, people would vote for it. If you offered a referendum on massively increasing spending on the NHS, people would vote for it. Unfortunately neither of these scenarios might turn out to actually be feasible or realistic. Just because someone wants something, doesn't always mean they need to get it. This is a basic lesson taught to children.

A slightly more cynical and controversial note is on the very nature of capitalist democracy at the moment. We have seen in the USA and in the UK that the truth doesn't really seem to matter any more - what matters is marketing, appealing to the lowest common denominator and rallying people to your banner at any cost. These behaviors have now utterly eclipsed any notion of "doing the right thing" or "the greater good" when it comes to winning votes, sadly.

There is an ideological question here of what the purpose of our MPs (and other countries equivalents) actually is. Is it to implement the "will of the people" at all costs, or is it to do what they believe is best for the people they represent? Ideally the two should of course be aligned, but when they aren't - what do you do then? This is frankly a bigger question even than Brexit. It is a question of ideology and of the very nature of our democracy.
 
Jesus only majority of 4. Half that room needs a swift kick in the balls.

Really want to see the breakdown of votes now.
 
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