Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Klopper76]

May continues with her plan to run right down to the deadline, then hold another vote on her Withdrawal Agreement, this time either to accept it, or vote against again and leave with no deal by default.

We've not seen the last vote on the Withdrawal Agreement yet, in my opinion.

Christ, is she trying to secure the top three parliamentary defeats? She's got the top two.

I wonder how many would flip to her deal over No Deal. Also I wonder what would anger Brexiteers more, leaving on May's Deal or revoking Article 50 and remaining.

 

[golden_blunder]

Brexiteers getting desperate....

What’s god got to do with brexit apart from slapping your head and saying “oh god! Did they just say that!?”

 

[Smores]

May continues with her plan to run right down to the deadline, then hold another vote on her Withdrawal Agreement, this time either to accept it, or vote against again and leave with no deal by default.

We've not seen the last vote on the Withdrawal Agreement yet, in my opinion.

Well yeah that's her plan, I'm hopeful that parlaiment will have enough control to stop her doing this.

I'm hopeful that someone has the brains to demand indicative votes so that May is forced to go and ask for an extension on terms that will actually pass. That way the EU are likely to be convinced to extend. If they let her 'just ask' for the sake of it we're doomed

 

[Abizzz]

The idea of brexit was to be out of the EU. As far as i'm aware. Do we want to live in a dictatorship? I hear china care for their workers. The ones that get stressed, if they jump out the window they'll land in a safety net. As a nation people need to understand, we need to make the laws and we also need to make the money. Because the money system for starters is hampering us big time. We're being screwed by the bankers anyway.

Feck off with that insulting bull shit. If you honestly think the EU is a dictatorship you should be stripped of your vote because of mental illness.

 

[horsechoker]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b016d23425b22f#block-5c8928b7e4b016d23425b22f

Parliament 'divorced from reality', EU's deputy Brexit negotiator tells ambassadors

The EU’s deputy Brexit negotiator Sabine Weyand has said MPs’ decision to resurrect plans already rejected by Brussels countless times shows that parliament is “divorced from reality”.

Speaking at a closed-door meeting of EU ambassadors this morning, Weyand made the tart observation about the Malthouse compromise - a variant of plans rejected by Brussels numerous times.

Quoting private remarks by the Dutch prime minister, Mark Rutte, Weyand also said the decision to vote for no-deal was “like the Titanic voting for the iceberg to get out of the way”.

Officials have voiced astonishment that Theresa May is allowing a free vote on no-deal, rather than seeking to defend the Brexit agreement painstakingly negotiated with the EU over 20 months. One senior source told the Guardian the decision to hold a free vote was “incredible”.

Weyand, an architect of the Strasbourg assurances hammered out on Monday, said that the second historic defeat for May’s deal showed that “a short technical extension” of talks could now be ruled out.

But EU member states do not share this view. France and Germany are among several countries who want to see flexibility, although they share concerns about a long-drawn-out Brexit distracting the EU when it has numerous economic and foreign policy questions jostling for attention.

The ambassadors concluded that the highly political question of extending Brexit talks could only be decided by EU leaders, who will assess the question at a summit next Thursday (21 March). Insiders expect the decision will be taken on Thursday by leaders, rather than pre-cooked in advance by their officials.

If MPs vote for an extension on Thursday, a critical period of diplomacy will begin. Donald Tusk, the president of the European council, will meet the Dutch prime minister Mark Rutte on Friday, Angela Merkel and Emmanuel Macron on Monday, Leo Varadkar on Tuesday.

While various extension times have been mooted - from five weeks to 21 months - there has never been a default position. Insiders stress the decision will depend on what the UK asks for.

But there is growing impatience with the UK - one ambassador asked why the EU had to assess complicated scenarios, when the British government could revoke article 50.

Many EU diplomats and officials think a short extension - two to three months - would be pointless, while not lessening the distraction of Brexit. “The shorter the extension, the more likely it is going to stay on the European agenda,” said one diplomat, from a country that favours a flexible approach.

But others are talking tough, while the debate in parliament has not enhanced confidence in the British political system.

“The damage is done. We know they are still putting party before country and humouring people who believe in fairies,” said one source, referring to the revived Malthouse compromise. “There was a feeling ‘wouldn’t it be better to have a dose of no deal to bring some sanity to the debate?’”

But there is also wariness of no-deal Brexit and several ambassadors refused to accept a commission proposal that a second extension would be ruled out.

 

[Adisa]

Brexiteers getting desperate....

Brexit has damaged some mentally. They're not all there.

 

[CassiusClaymore]

So Spelman has now pulled her own amendment.

Dame Caroline Spelman, a former Conservative party chairwoman, decides she will not push her amendment to a vote.

Hers was one of two amendments - the other is the Malthouse Amendment - that were due to be voted on by MPs later today.

However, Dame Caroline, the main sponsor of the amendment, has decided not to push for it.

It is theoretically possible that someone else could - but that would be unusual.

Her decision is extremely helpful to the government who were going to tell MPs they could not vote in favour of that amendment.

The amendment put forward by Labour MP Jack Dromey and Dame Caroline changed the wording of the government motion to "this House rejects the UK leaving the EU without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47529293

 

[Honest John]

This is highly possible, and at the end of the day, she'll say to Corbyn , is Labour going to back the deal or not, if not..

I'm not sure how May feels right now. But if it were me I'd be absolutely furious with the ERG and with DUP. The DUP especially because of the £1bn bung. She has absolutely nothing to lose now. Her party is all over the place, she's lost control of her cabinet and she has given undertakings not to contest the next GE as leader. As inflexible as she is I honestly believe that she is trying to act in the best interest of the country and working her arse off to do so while all the other twats stand around and point.

The WA is the only deal on the table and, if leave we must, in my opinion it is not that bad. It means that we have to do things in good faith, but it is a route out of the EU and does allow the referendum result to be honored. The people opposing it are doing so for numerous different reasons. But she is operating on the premise of honoring the vote and doing it in the least painful way for the economy and jobs.

This is now her raison d'etre. I don't even think she would want to be around for the future relationship negotiations.

She needs to get this vote over the line and given the shit treatment she has received at the hands of her own party, it would be no surprise to me if she gave up altogether getting the ERG and the DUP on board and offered the Labour party a GE plus workers rights etc etc, in exchange for supporting her deal. She could then stand down claiming Brexit was delivered and stick it to the headbangers in her own party to boot.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I presume parliament realises that if the EU are to vote for an extension, they will do so on 21st March, in 8 days time and in order to do so they will need a definite consensus on an agreed goal before then. Chances?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Thought this was a Daily Mash post at first but no it's actually from my local paper.

https://www.ipswichstar.co.uk/news/...e-brexit-vote-thank-you-theresa-may-1-5936038

But after another lost vote on the terms of Britain’s withdrawal, Theresa May can take at least some comfort from a group of Felixstowe residents - who sent her a thank you card for all her work.

Margery Girling House resident Don Garfield-Smith, 90, organised the card with fellow residents on Wednesday, March 13 morning after saying he was “inspired” by the prime minister’s handling of the Brexit conundrum.

“I was talking to other residents, and we all agreed about how sorry we felt for her,” Mr Garfield-Smith said. “So, we clubbed together and bought her a card.

“We admire her for all she’s done. It’s been an incredibly difficult job and we think she’s done really well.

“She’s so tenacious and sticks to her guns. She’s done everything for the best for the country, not for her career or to appease her own party.

“She’s a real-life wonder woman.”

feck. Me.

 

[Silva]

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I'm not sure how May feels right now. But if it were me I'd be absolutely furious with the ERG and with DUP. The DUP especially because of the £1bn bung. She has absolutely nothing to lose now. Her party is all over the place, she's lost control of her cabinet and she has given undertakings not to contest the next GE as leader. As inflexible as she is I honestly believe that she is trying to act in the best interest of the country and working her arse off to do so while all the other twats stand around and point.

The WA is the only deal on the table and, if leave we must, in my opinion it is not that bad. It means that we have to do things in good faith, but it is a route out of the EU and does allow the referendum result to be honored. The people opposing it are doing so for numerous different reasons. But she is operating on the premise of honoring the vote and doing it in the least painful way for the economy and jobs.

This is now her raison d'etre. I don't even think she would want to be around for the future relationship negotiations.

She needs to get this vote over the line and given the shit treatment she has received at the hands of her own party, it would be no surprise to me if she gave up altogether getting the ERG and the DUP on board and offered the Labour party a GE plus workers rights etc etc, in exchange for supporting her deal. She could then stand down claiming Brexit was delivered and stick it to the headbangers in her own party to boot.

Agree on the whole. DUP are a loose cannon. The thing is even if all the Tories voted for it , even the ERG, and all the rest of parliament voted against it , she'd still lose. Would Corbyn back down, as all his fence-sitting would be for absolutely nothing.

 

[711]

Christ, is she trying to secure the top three parliamentary defeats? She's got the top two.

I wonder how many would flip to her deal over No Deal. Also I wonder what would anger Brexiteers more, leaving on May's Deal or revoking Article 50 and remaining.

May's plan doesn't allow for that, so you'll never know.

Separately, I would go for Clarke's plan, give MPs a single transferable vote on the three options, so there would have to be a winner. I admit I don't know if it's constitutionally possible, but the speaker didn't put his amendment to the vote anyway. I'd be quite happy for the people to be given the same option personally, but everyone on the caf seems to think people shouldn't have referendums, so the MPs would have to do.

 

[Silva]

wtf

 

[golden_blunder]

wtf

 

[Honest John]

Agree on the whole. DUP are a loose cannon. The thing is even if all the Tories voted for it , even the ERG, and all the rest of parliament voted against it , she'd still lose. Would Corbyn back down, as all his fence-sitting would be for absolutely nothing.

He wants (a) to get out of the EU and (b) a GE - it would be tempting as this would play to the Northern marginals. The only downside would be the wider membership who are very-much remain, but he could take a chance on that.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

He wants (a) to get out of the EU and (b) a GE - it would be tempting as this would play to the Northern marginals. The only downside would be the wider membership who are very-much remain, but he could take a chance on that.

Yes he wants out of the EU and a GE - they'll be out of the EU but he won't get his GE (even though he'd never win it)

 

[NinjaFletch]

I presume parliament realises that if the EU are to vote for an extension, they will do so on 21st March, in 8 days time and in order to do so they will need a definite consensus on an agreed goal before then. Chances?

Probably not.

I know we discussed yesterday whether this vote was pointless or not, but given the actual wording of what has been put in front of MPs it absolutely is. The whole day is just (another) waste of time. Especially given amendments that have been pulled which might have actually been relevant.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Something that i only found out today is that we cant rescind Art.50 and then reinstate it later..

Its a good thing if we actually do rescind it, but this probably means it will never be an attractive option for many MPs.

 

[Smores]

Probably not.

I know we discussed yesterday whether this vote was pointless or not, but given the actual wording of what has been put in front of MPs it absolutely is. The whole day is just (another) waste of time. Especially given amendments that have been pulled which might have actually been relevant.

Parlaiments rather than governments fault for once. Both votes should have been today.

When will we get the indicative votes? Next Monday perhaps? 3 days before the deadline

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Probably not.

I know we discussed yesterday whether this vote was pointless or not, but given the actual wording of what has been put in front of MPs it absolutely is. The whole day is just (another) waste of time. Especially given amendments that have been pulled which might have actually been relevant.

It's unbelievable that basically after 3 years the UK are no further forward and there is really only one week to decide.

 

[Honest John]

Yes he wants out of the EU and a GE - they'll be out of the EU but he won't get his GE (even though he'd never win it)

Yes, I'm suggesting May offers him a GE for votes for her deal. It is after all just the WA which is just a temporary arrangement. Corbyn, if he won the GE, would have carte blanc to put all of his ideas forward (whatever they are) in the future relationship negotiations. It could be tempting.

 

[Silva]

Something that i only found out today is that we cant rescind Art.50 and then reinstate it later..

Its a good thing if we actually do rescind it, but this probably means it will never be an attractive option for many MPs.

yeah we can, A50 just says that a member state can leave by giving the EU a written letter saying the state is leaving. it doesn't have much else to it

 

[NinjaFletch]

Parlaiments rather than governments fault for once. Both votes should have been today.

When will we get the indicative votes? Next Monday perhaps? 3 days before the deadline

I think it's become apparent that May's play here is: vote against No deal >fail to get extension (never seek one) > return to Parliament with another vote on her deal closer to the deadline.

 

[711]

Yes, I'm suggesting May offers him a GE for votes for her deal. It is after all just the WA which is just a temporary arrangement. Corbyn, if he won the GE, would have carte blanc to put all of his ideas forward (whatever they are) in the future relationship negotiations. It could be tempting.

I think that's a great idea, but I'm not sure her own MPs would be too happy about it.

 

[Flying high]

Something that i only found out today is that we cant rescind Art.50 and then reinstate it later..

Its a good thing if we actually do rescind it, but this probably means it will never be an attractive option for many MPs.

Do you have a link for that? My understanding, though I admit this could be wrong.....

We can rescind then reinstate. However, we could not do this as a ploy or tactic to somehow gain the upper hand. That is to say, if we had intended to soon reinstate it at the time we rescind it, the we would be deemed to be gaming the system. So if the current government were to withdraw a50, the some time down the road there were a material change(election or referendum, in essence), then we could reinstate a50 as a fresh attempt.

 

[RedSky]

wtf

She really should name and shame people like that.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Do you have a link for that? My understanding, though I admit this could be wrong.....

We can rescind then reinstate. However, we could not do this as a ploy or tactic to somehow gain the upper hand. That is to say, if we had intended to soon reinstate it at the time we rescind it, the we would be deemed to be gaming the system. So if the current government were to withdraw a50, the some time down the road there were a material change(election or referendum, in essence), then we could reinstate a50 as a fresh attempt.

Gove said it in Parliament today, but I don't think it's worth taking particularly seriously.

 

[Adebesi]

Yes, I'm suggesting May offers him a GE for votes for her deal. It is after all just the WA which is just a temporary arrangement. Corbyn, if he won the GE, would have carte blanc to put all of his ideas forward (whatever they are) in the future relationship negotiations. It could be tempting.

I think if this offer was made Corbyn would be tempted by it for the reasons you say, its a win win for him. But May would never offer it because of who he is. The idea of a Corbyn-led, socialist government in the UK will fill her with genuine horror. It might be different if she was facing off against a Blairite, where she might say, OK the Tories will lose power but we can regroup and get our shit together and then come back stronger for it, its not like the world is going to come to an end because we arent in power. With Corbyn, she probably think the world actually will end if they get in. For a conviction politician on the right, a Corbyn government is an actual clear and present danger for the country and I have no doubt she and her wealthy friends are far more scared about that prospect than they are about a no deal Brexit.

 

[Flying high]

Exactly. Preech man.

Of course I'm not happy with it. Neither are you.

But I could learn to live with it. And so could most people

(sorry about the slow response)


Honestly, no. I want us to remain, anything else is just plain stupid. Whichever way you try to cut it. Membership costs us a relatively small amount and brings many benefits. We have always been 'sovereign'.

My 2nd choice would be a full fat no deal brexit. Because I'm frankly sick of morons getting on t.v. and radio to say nothing more insightful than 'JUST LEAVE'. It's getting to the stage where I just want them to really get to grips with how much damage they are going to cause.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Bercow is probably the most effective opposition in the country right now.

 

[MoskvaRed]

I'm not sure how May feels right now. But if it were me I'd be absolutely furious with the ERG and with DUP. The DUP especially because of the £1bn bung. She has absolutely nothing to lose now. Her party is all over the place, she's lost control of her cabinet and she has given undertakings not to contest the next GE as leader. As inflexible as she is I honestly believe that she is trying to act in the best interest of the country and working her arse off to do so while all the other twats stand around and point.

The WA is the only deal on the table and, if leave we must, in my opinion it is not that bad. It means that we have to do things in good faith, but it is a route out of the EU and does allow the referendum result to be honored. The people opposing it are doing so for numerous different reasons. But she is operating on the premise of honoring the vote and doing it in the least painful way for the economy and jobs.

This is now her raison d'etre. I don't even think she would want to be around for the future relationship negotiations.

She needs to get this vote over the line and given the shit treatment she has received at the hands of her own party, it would be no surprise to me if she gave up altogether getting the ERG and the DUP on board and offered the Labour party a GE plus workers rights etc etc, in exchange for supporting her deal. She could then stand down claiming Brexit was delivered and stick it to the headbangers in her own party to boot.

To a large extent it’s May’s own fault though. She never made any real attempt to build a consensus around how to respond to a narrow 52:48 vote in which the precise meaning of “not remaining” was never spelled out. Combined with the unnecessary election of 2017, that meant she was at the mercy of people who’s instinct is to say no to everything (ERG, DUP). The ERG types have been causing headaches since the late 80s so it should not have been a surprise that people like Bill Cash would be utterly intransigent and unreasonable.

 

[Flying high]

Gove said it in Parliament today, but I don't think it's worth taking particularly seriously.

Well in that case, it's fairly safe to assume it to be, at the very least, not the whole story.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Yes, I'm suggesting May offers him a GE for votes for her deal. It is after all just the WA which is just a temporary arrangement. Corbyn, if he won the GE, would have carte blanc to put all of his ideas forward (whatever they are) in the future relationship negotiations. It could be tempting.

I doubt May would offer him a GE unless she is confident that he wouldn't win. The likelihood is that he'd lose anyway but would she take that risk. On the other hand it would kill off Corbyn for good if he lost.

The problem with all this is that both sides are still playing party politics and not one of them care about the interests of the country.

 

[Infra-red]

I think it's become apparent that May's play here is: vote against No deal >fail to get extension (never seek one) > return to Parliament with another vote on her deal closer to the deadline.

Yes I'd assume that she will encourage everyone to vote against 'no deal' tonight and also against the extension tomorrow.

She can then say that those two options have been ruled out, and give the commons a final vote, right on the deadline - a straight choice between her deal and unilateral revocation of A50.

Would he hilarious just to see the reactions of the Brexiteers. It would also have the potential to permanently destroy the Conservative Party... perhaps there might be some ancillary benefits to Brexit afterall.

 

[Adebesi]

That would be a fascinating conclusion to this sorry affair. Inasmuch as this thing will ever be "concluded", you just know whatever happens the fallout from this will reverberate for years to come.

The thing is all of this could have played out so differently if people had accepted from the beginning the solution to the Irish problem would be a border in the Irish Sea. But "No PM wants to be remembered as the person who broke up the United Kingdom." In ensuring that doesnt happen, could she end up being the PM that destroyed the Tory Party? I suspect that is an accolade she would be even less enthusiastic about.

I suspect she would rather be remembered as the PM that took the UK out of the EU without a deal than either of those things.

 

[Honest John]

I think that's a great idea, but I'm not sure her own MPs would be too happy about it.

Well as I said in my post above they, along with the DUP have treated her like shit. She could expect it from the opposite benches but not fro her own side.

 

[sun_tzu]

."

I suspect she would rather be remembered as the PM that took the UK out of the EU without a deal than either of those things.

And ironically a hard brexit could well ultimately lead to the softer brexit conservatives leaving and splitting the party... Plus ultimately real moves for referendums in Scotland and ni (independence / reunification)

So she may well get the hat trick

 

[Adebesi]

And ironically a hard brexit could well ultimately lead to the softer brexit conservatives leaving and splitting the party... Plus ultimately real moves for referendums in Scotland and ni (independence / reunification)

So she may well get the hat trick

Very true. Its easy to guess her goals, but much harder to figure out which course of action is most likely to achieve them.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Damian Green, the Tory former first secretary of state, is speaking now. He has tabled what is known as the Malthouse compromise amendment.

Referring to the most controversial part of the amendment, paragraph 3, he acknowledges that Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, has said this proposal (a transition without the UK having to agree to the backstop, basically) is unacceptable. But he says if the government just did everything Barnier said, it would never get anywhere.

He urges MPs to back the amendment, saying it offers a way forward.


There are no words