Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Smores said:
There's 2 million people now eligible to vote who weren't at the last ref and they'll be more impacted than anyone (especially all those old folk dead)....yet the leavetards in here think that sticking to a 2 year old vote that's proved undeliverable without asking 'are you sure?' Is the democratic path?

It should nullify any further points from them.
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This is one of those times when 16-year-olds should have a say. I'm not usually in favour of lowering the age for voting, but this will affect them a lot over the next decade.

It also mildly bothers me that the older folk are always classed as the pro-leavers. There were plenty of young people who voted leave, too. And of course, all those people who didn't vote at all because they weren't interested in the whole issue.
 
Bola said:
The to.escakes are roughly from 2030 to at least the end of the century

I can't quote you recent economic trade trends to answer a timescale thst has many factors thst cause uncertainty , but I can state what I believe are abilities that help a national economy thrive in a changing global economy

I've highlighted some of those in the previous post. But as a quick sum, I don't believe Europe will grow as quick as other parts of the world and it is currently based on a culture of protectionism. Those two key components are not a good mix for long term prosperity
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So no evidence then. Nor is there any reason given why being part of the EU necessarily precludes access to these fast growing economies.
 
foolsgold said:
David Cameron, the Prime Minister when he announced the vote. The referendum was a manifesto promise in 2015 when he won a majority of seats.



He also said "“I am absolutely clear a referendum is a referendum, it’s a once in a generation, once in a lifetime opportunity and the result determines the outcome"

Furthermore, in 2017 both the Tories and Labour were explicit in their manifestos that they would enact Brexit
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What Cameron said (ex-PM and ex-MP) has no binding effect on the current Cabinet and parliament. He is also utterly discredited as a politician (worst PM in history contender) and his past pronouncements have zero moral authority.

As for the Tory and Labour manifestos, we are two years further on from when they were drawn up and, after the impressive display of unity and consistency in negotiation on the part of the EU, it is now clear what Brexit entails. In any business, you would seriously reconsider whether to scrap the project at this stage after initial projections have proved to be wildly off the mark. Asked privately, I’d guess around 4/5 of the house of commons would agree that this is all a stupid idea if it wasn’t for party political management and loss of face.
 
Penna said:
This is one of those times when 16-year-olds should have a say. I'm not usually in favour of lowering the age for voting, but this will affect them a lot over the next decade.

It also mildly bothers me that the older folk are always classed as the pro-leavers. There were plenty of young people who voted leave, too. And of course, all those people who didn't vote at all because they weren't interested in the whole issue.
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Oh i didn't mean to make that insinuation, my point was as found by YouGov that circa 160k remainers die each year but 320k leavers do as well.

It's preposterous that the dead hold a say from beyond the grave whilst all those young uns now of voting age get none.
 
Bola is just the latest in a long line of posters to enter this thread (or the Trump one) and spout a load of meaningless catchphrases, completely ignore reasoned questions and facts when presented to them, fail to offer any kind of support for their claims, then declare the thread an echo chamber and act all smug like they're intellectually superior.

Every time it leads to pages of nonsense.
 
Rado_N said:
Bola is just the latest in a long line of posters to enter this thread (or the Trump one) and spout a load of meaningless catchphrases, completely ignore reasoned questions and facts when presented to them, fail to offer any kind of support for their claims, then declare the thread an echo chamber and act all smug like they're intellectually superior.

Every time it leads to pages of nonsense.
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I was wondering why the thread had suddenly increased in size by 4 or 5 pages. I thought something interesting had happened.
 
Penna said:
This is one of those times when 16-year-olds should have a say. I'm not usually in favour of lowering the age for voting, but this will affect them a lot over the next decade.
It also mildly bothers me that the older folk are always classed as the pro-leavers. There were plenty of young people who voted leave, too. And of course, all those people who didn't vote at all because they weren't interested in the whole issue.​
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First bit of sense on this age/youngsters commentary to appear on this forum congrats @Penna

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Smores said:
Oh i didn't mean to make that insinuation, my point was as found by YouGov that circa 160k remainers die each year but 320k leavers do as well.

It's preposterous that the dead hold a say from beyond the grave whilst all those young uns now of voting age get none.
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"Standing on the shoulders of Giants" perhaps?
 
Bola said:
Laughing face. Nice to keep up the humour when perplexed
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Just been listening to Brain Damage by Pink Floyd.
Perfect description of Brexit but much more fun to listen to.

Lots of people are very uptight about this subject so I strongly recommend taking a few minutes out to listen to the very apt lyrics.
 
nickm said:
So no evidence then. Nor is there any reason given why being part of the EU necessarily precludes access to these fast growing economies.
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And you have bundles of evidence to show how the EU will lead Britain to great prosperity up to at least 2100?

I look forward to you posting it
 
JPRouve said:
Exactly, they proposed to join EFTA. That's when people should ask themselves what Brexit actually meant, the 17m of leavers didn't vote for the same conclusion, some voted for what is effectively No Deal but many voted for something entirely different and as of today we have no idea who voted for what.

For me a second referendum should have happened whether it is purely about the exit options or the possibility of withdrawing because as things stands most voters from both sides are getting screwed.
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So in fact the government have no mandate to leave the EEA - just as well Leavers knew what they were voting for.
 
Bola said:
And you have bundles of evidence to show how the EU will lead Britain to great prosperity up to at least 2100?

I look forward to you posting it
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The EU doesn't lead the UK anywhere. The UK is part of the EU and lead itself wherever it wants by either influencing the EU's routs or by opting out of new treaties if it wants to. Your question is the same as asking if the UK will lead itself to great prosperity up to at least 2100?
 
Order, Order, Point of Order!!

Instead of focussing on the referendum , shouldn't some legal expert team prevent the government leaving under false pretences.

Leavers have not actually voted to stop FoM or leaving the Single Market. The government only have a mandate to leave the EU. Not the same thing.

If only the government had a party in opposition and one who had some brains.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
So in fact the government have no mandate to leave the EEA - just as well Leavers knew what they were voting for.
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They have a mandate to leave the EEA, that's part of their normal power but the referendum didn't gave them a specific popular mandate on EEA, it was on the EU.
 
JPRouve said:
The EU doesn't lead the UK anywhere. The UK is part of the EU and lead itself wherever it wants by either influencing the EU's routs or by opting out of new treaties if it wants to. Your question is the same as asking if the UK will lead itself to great prosperity up to at least 2100?
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Things change a lot in 80 years.
Just think 80 years ago there was some RW fascists who brainwashed their people ....
 
Bola said:
Have you a roadmap of how the EU will take Britain to continued prosperity until at least 2100 please? As i've not seen one presented

I'd also be interested in how that roadmap to a utopian existence will address the problem of discrimination against ethnic groups and the use of racial based terminology in everyday language. As an example, using a term such as 'White Crusaders' to describe a perceived negative issue of western/ European people offering charity to deprived areas of Africa, even though such a 'problem' could be conducted by people of multiple ethnicities
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Kinel.
 
Bola said:
And you have bundles of evidence to show how the EU will lead Britain to great prosperity up to at least 2100?

I look forward to you posting it
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You are are the one making the claim. Prove it.
 
Quality control
Paul the Wolf said:
You never answer any of the points raised, which is typical of all leavers and throw empty insults around. You have no answers.
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Bias is getting in the way of your judgement. Let me run you through the steps

-I stated my belief and a few factors why I believe that being outside the EU was better long term
- that 'evidence' was questioned (fair enough)
- I then ask for the evidence of the opposing view, namely the EU bringing prosperity to 2100
- I was told to provide evidence of the above point, even though I'm not claiming it
- I made the comment on 'comprehension' based on the above point

Does that help chief?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Order, Order, Point of Order!!

Instead of focussing on the referendum , shouldn't some legal expert team prevent the government leaving under false pretences.

Leavers have not actually voted to stop FoM or leaving the Single Market. The government only have a mandate to leave the EU. Not the same thing.

If only the government had a party in opposition and one who had some brains.
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That is, to me the most frustrating thing. Labour and the people running the party seem completely impotent to take the lead as the opposition and offer a genuine alternative.
And I say this as a traditional Labour supporter.
 
Bola said:
Bias is getting in the way of your judgement. Let me run you through the steps

-I stated my belief and a few factors why I believe that being outside the EU was better long term
- that 'evidence' was questioned (fair enough)
- I then ask for the evidence of the opposing view, namely the EU bringing prosperity to 2100
- I was told to provide evidence of the above point, even though I'm not claiming it
- I made the comment on 'comprehension' based on the above point

Does that help chief?
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You provided absolutely nothing.

The EU doesn't reduce democracy in the UK and leaving won't increase it. And then you talk about syncing the UK's economy with large and rapidly growing economies that are supposed not be protectionist.
Who are these economies? I hope that you are not talking about China or India because they are very much protectionist.
 
Bola said:
Bias is getting in the way of your judgement. Let me run you through the steps

-I stated my belief and a few factors why I believe that being outside the EU was better long term
- that 'evidence' was questioned (fair enough)
- I then ask for the evidence of the opposing view, namely the EU bringing prosperity to 2100
- I was told to provide evidence of the above point, even though I'm not claiming it
- I made the comment on 'comprehension' based on the above point

Does that help chief?
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Why do you keep saying that people are biased if they disagree with you - you did it to the American who is just an observer, like me and many others, we have plenty of other nationalities in here who you disagree with and even though I'm British born Brexit isn't going to affect me.
It is a fascinating topic of how gullible people have been influenced.

No-one can possibly project so far ahead. The world is changing continuously.
If you can foresee what state the UK will be in within five years if they leave with no deal, this would be more interesting

Expecting to be able to sell an increased volume of whatever to emerging economies over the next 80 years when in all likelihood the British manufacturing base will disappear within five or ten years if they leave the EU is rather stretching it.

I wasn't talking just about that one point but many that have been raised by other posters over the last few pages.
 
Bola said:
Bias is getting in the way of your judgement. Let me run you through the steps

-I stated my belief and a few factors why I believe that being outside the EU was better long term
- that 'evidence' was questioned (fair enough)
- I then ask for the evidence of the opposing view, namely the EU bringing prosperity to 2100
- I was told to provide evidence of the above point, even though I'm not claiming it
- I made the comment on 'comprehension' based on the above point

Does that help chief?
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I’ve only quoted this one post, but you have several accusing others of being biased and being sheep. Of lacking critical thinking. You’ve been utterly indoctrinated, everything you’re accusing others of is everything you are.
 
This changes week by week ,but at the moment i feel this will go to a extension then a new referendum.
 
sun_tzu said:
It makes sense as long as you work on the basis Corbyn really does not want a second referendum... 3 months isn't long enough for one so it let's him carry on saying bad deal and pretend there is somehow a majority for his particular brand of unicorns
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Yes. Whenever Corbyn or McDonnell are asked whether they want a second referendum they always answer with 'I want what was decided at the Labour party conference', they never say they themselves want one. And for those that remember that conference we know they didn't want a second referendum to be debated there in the first place. Why would they want a second referendum when they're lifelong Leavers?
 
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