Am I wrong in thinking that ROI wouldn't be fan of the Queen as head of Commonwealth part?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Lots of our average Joe's died in the troubles so I would argue against that assertion.
I actually think it would be an almost impossible sell due to the costs and implications. It would decimate the Irish economy for a while, too, we can't afford to take the North. The only possible way I could see it working would be an extremely slow transition where the NI stay funded by Westminster until the economy has reached a point where it's able to sustain itself without doing so, but would the UK ever go for that, either? Unlikely.
I think once people look beyond the romanticism of the whole thing it'll become apparent that uniting the island will have far more negatives than positives, in the short-term at least, and that's why I don't think it would happen. I could never even see it reaching a referendum down here, really.
That's long before you take into account that almost half of NI consider themselves British.
Besides, most of my northern friends say it'd probably never pass there either. I'm surprised you think it would.
I'd like to think our recent referendum's have shown our populace to have a bit more common since than the Brits did for Brexit.
If it was a relevant concept and could be of value to us as a nation, we wouldn't let anything so fickle stand in the way. As Massive Spanner has said, we've moved on as a nation and we're not going to let outdated notions and misdeeds stand in the way of progress.
Ireland would pass a reunification referendum if it works economically and societally for Ireland. If it doesn't, it won't. Joining up to the commonwealth would be passed or rejected in the same manner - if it ever became important enough to consider.
I don't know if it would pass up here, it would presumably all depend on timing and circumstance. My perception is that Brexit, particularly a no deal Brexit, would make it somewhat more likely and if you compound that with the shifting demographics you could find a sort of perfect storm of conditions that softens unionism just enough to get unification over the line.
Out of all the trash and vile rubbish I have read on this particular thread, this is just about the most antagonistic I have had the misfortune to read.
Holier than thou. You are little more than an odious pompous fool.
Oh. And by the way. I recently raised the issue of a European Army and at no time did the word secret army get mentioned.
Yet another inaccuracy from you.
Good bye.
A united Ireland as a romantic idea is a dream we have had for generations.
If NI voted for a united Ireland I can almost guarantee that wave of nationalistic pride would carry over to the South. Remember that vote would come first and the momentum would start from there.
It would take a lot of math to quell that.
If we did have more sense Enda Kenny wouldn't have lasted as long!
We're really not that wise. The world wide pressure alone would see the vote pass.
Surely you'd want a super majority for something like that though?
I didn’t assert it, I stated that it’s the impression over here. I actually asked about it on the Cafe a while back, you can read the responses here - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/gen...cord-third-time.428257/page-398#post-21033923
For what it’s worth (and I can’t speak for all the Irish on here), I’m someone who really likes the UK. I love being over there, have been lucky enough to live in England, have many friends there and admire much about the country and culture. I really value maintaining good, close neighborly relations and believe we’re tied to each other by geography and culture to a large extent. I’m not 100% comfortable with our complete identification with the EU on this and on other matters, and I’ve always thought some form of broader, egalitarian Anglo-confederation makes a lot of sense. But the really disappointing aspect of this debacle for me has been witnessing just how little these feelings I have for the UK seem to have been reciprocated throughout the initial referendum campaign and since. The maintenance of good relations with your closest neighbor; the potential threat posed by Brexit and the way you’ve gone about it to those good relations don’t seem to have been a major factor in the discourse surrounding Brexit at all.
You might be right, personally I think it's not worth it, but I'm not a romanticist, I'm more practical, and I'd rather not see our economy shot to tatters again. Ultimately most Northern Irish people (including the ones who consider themselves Irish) are more than happy being in the UK and getting their free healthcare and all the other benefits that come from it, and if it wasn't for Brexit and a potential hard border they'd never even consider a united Ireland, so why the feck should we pander to it now ourselves?
Ideally yes but the principle of consent in the Good Friday Agreement is that it needs 50%+1
I understand but we are Ireland. A large percentage of our voting base would vote for a united Ireland no matter what and its that imbalance that would pass it IMO. Peoples minds who wouldn't change no matter what.
It would take a stupidly large percentage of the undecided to sway it the other way.
But who really knows I suppose.
I really doubt we’d vote against a United Ireland down here, the opportunity to correct a perceived historical injustice like that won’t be passed up.
Post Brexit UK our ‘Special Place in Hell’
To be fair the Irish question has been the biggest and most discussed element of the single biggest political issue in generations. So Im not sure that is really fair. A lot of people care deeply about the impact this will have on Ireland.
Ah alright. I wasn't aware of that.
It’s really good to hear someone say this.
You entire being is one big inaccuracy.
Your delusions over the "European Army" have been pointed out to you time and time again but you ignore facts and motor on with your nonsense. You have repeatedly said that "The EU" are pushing ahead with this "army". Yesterday you said it was being pushed ahead with despite many European countries being against it as if it was some sort of conspiracy. It was pointed out to you that pretty much every member bar the UK and Denmark had in fact signed up to PESCO (not an army) but you ignored this fact and waffled on blindly. Then you tried to equate Macron to being the EU.
I'm not holier than thou - I'm just not completely thick and I'm sick of pretending to engage with those who are.
I agree (and posted as much) that I am saddened that we seem so far apart from our closest neighbours. Especially since the culture, the language and traditions are so intertwined. Brexit has started to pull out the stitches from old wounds and so it has to be sorted quickly. Too much air has been given to Brexiteers. The media and social media has whipped up feelings that never existed in my daily life. Before this happened I had hopes of a much greater coming together for the UK and the ROI. But this has set it back 30 years. Whatever some on here think, I am for the voice of reason. The referendum was a disaster in my opinion. But it is what it is and somehow we have to move forward. That is better done through goodwill and cooperation than through mud-slinging and animosity.
>outright lie and mislead people
>get upset when someone insults you for it
I agree, maybe Tusk shouldn't have said anything because it lets the Brexiters play the victim card.
>get upset when someone insults you for it
I agree, maybe Tusk shouldn't have said anything because it lets the Brexiters play the victim card.
Yeah, that's the only criticism I have of it too. But on the other hand he doesn't lose anything by saying it, it's not as if brexiteers had refrained from playing the victim card up until his post, or as if there was any way in which he could reason with them. He's essentially burned non existent bridges with it.
One thing it does do is draw attention to the brexiteers though. I think it would be a good strategy for EU politicians (and member states) to point out brexiteers and their contradictions non stop for the next 8 weeks. They've been able to dictate the public discussion for way to long. If brexiteers want to ruin their country no one should be left in any doubt as to who did it.
Thread's taken a weird twist since I've been away for a little while.
Of the Commonwealth countries I've visited /dealt with in Africa, none of them seem too enamoured with the British.
I think that it's true for all former colonies whether they were portuguese, french, spanish or british. The tragedy is that France and the UK in particular, have to some extent an over inflated opinion of themselves due to things that absolutely do not matter today.
Well, Hong Kongers would love to return to pre-1997.
But that says more about the Chinese overlords than Britain.
Being in the Commonwealth does not mean having the British monarch as head of state - a few do (Aus, NZ), most don’t. But, in any case, it seems a fairly pointless institution which I imagine may fall apart after the Queen goes. Is there a French equivalent?
Yes for sure it applies to all colonist nations but to think there is a desire for them to be under their umbrella nowadays is delusional.
I guess that the OIF is the equivalent, last year Ireland joined it as an observer.
You need to look at what the Commonwealth does. It is a force for good in the world. It has 53 countries as members (over 25% of all the nations on earth) and represents 1/3 of the worlds population. Yes it was founded from the old empire but now there are many countries in it that were nothing whatsoever to do with the empire. The 'British' part of the name has been dropped and there has been a big effort to promote the 'league of friendly nations' aspect rather than some British jerk-off story. Yes The Queen is it's head and she will eventually hand over to Prince Charles but that is no longer a statement of the Brits lauding it over any other member. All members are considered equal.
It does good things, helps a lot of people and in my opinion should not be derided.
http://thecommonwealth.org/
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imagine responding to criticism of British arrogance with an ad for the commonwealth
Two. Two nations out of 53 (61 if you count former and now dissolved members) who had nothing to do with the empire. Rwanda and Mozambique.
The Irish look and sound like the English and we live right next door but we have never been considered equal by the antiquated gobshitery of British government and establishment. So you'll pardon my utter scorn at the idea they consider members from Africa and the tropics at anything even approaching equal.
It exists solely to stoke the bruised ego of receding British imperialism and as a means for them to maintain their claims on other nations resources now that it doesn't do to be seen colonising and slave taking in polite international society.
Here's a good insight into the "good things" done by the Commonwealth: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...lth-british-empire-britain-black-brown-people
Bear in mind this article has actual facts and referenced links to back up it's content so it's going to take a little longer for you to read than the usual fare.
When I compare it with this, it confirms my opinion. Look at them graciously sharing their values and counting heads too.
And you say the Irish have signed up as observers....
Out of interest, what does it do? What is this good it is a force for? After the first couple of sentences I was expecting some info on that but it never came.
And I laughed when it was announced.
I think the member states need to approve the head of the commonwealth - it's not a given that Charlie Boy would take over. That being said, I think the Palace has been on a charm offensive for the past few years to ensure he gets it - and by that I mean bribing the shit out of whoever they need to ensure he gets the gig.
I wouldn't even rate the Commonwealth as highly as pointless.
Well said.