[Vidooq]

That's a poor reaction for the third goal. There is no defending that, no matter what. You should never do that.

In the compilations I watched prior to him coming to United, it was the one negativity that stood out in those clips, he always pushed the ball into a dangerous area, or was not making clean saves, where he collected the ball cleanly. He was lucky that it was mostly shots from a distance in those clips, and there is nobody to pounce on those, so he had time to collect the spill. But here, it's a problem.

 

[Adamsk7]

He’s just not a good goalkeeper, end of. I’ll get behind him this year because he is our goalkeeper and I hope he improves. If he doesn’t, he needs replacing, which will happen because he may help Erik lose his job too

 

[devilsadvoca8]

The low bar he set at the start made the slight improvement he showed later on seem like he was performing at some world class level where infact it was just basic and average. He cost us a lot last year regardless of how the team Infront of him was. Dropping shots, letting balls go under him and not reacting quick enough. I supported and backed him and will again but tbh it's only because I have no choice. Eth won't drop him mo matter what. He's not that good if we are being honest, I said it then and I'll say it again, a keepers most important attribute is keeping the ball out the net not tiki taka and I'll prefer an average ball playing keeper that can claim crosses and has great reflexes over a Carrick in goal who can't get down quick enough or dominate his box.

 

[SparcMac]

The low bar he set at the start made the slight improvement he showed later on seem like he was performing at some world class level where infact it was just basic and average. He cost us a lot last year regardless of how the team Infront of him was. Dropping shots, letting balls go under him and not reacting quick enough. I supported and backed him and will again but tbh it's only because I have no choice. Eth won't drop him mo matter what. He's not that good if we are being honest, I said it then and I'll say it again, a keepers most important attribute is keeping the ball out the net not tiki taka and I'll prefer an average ball playing keeper that can claim crosses and has great reflexes over a Carrick in goal who can't get down quick enough or dominate his box.

That's why you aren't a licensed football coach and those who are prefer Sweeper Keepers to have a chance to beat a high press.

Some of you need to get out of 90s and watch how all the modern goalkeepers such as Onana have changed the game and how impossible is it to play the 3rd man build-up without one.

 

[Glorio]

99% of time he can be a great keeper. But he always has one or two major errors in him almost per match that could turn out to be fatal.

Agree. Meaning he's not a good keeper unfortunately. We need a consistently solid keeper to build a successful team.

Similar to Barthez, or someone like Bailly in defence, great actions interspersed with 1 or 2 clangers don't help in defensive positions of the pitch.

 

[Glorio]

That's why you aren't a licensed football coach and those who are prefer Sweeper Keepers to have a chance to beat a high press.

Some of you need to get out of 90s and watch how all the modern goalkeepers such as Onana have changed the game and how impossible is it to play the 3rd man build-up without one.

It's possible to be a good sweeper while being a good actual goal keeper though. In the latter, Onana doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

That's why you aren't a licensed football coach and those who are prefer Sweeper Keepers to have a chance to beat a high press.

Some of you need to get out of 90s and watch how all the modern goalkeepers such as Onana have changed the game and how impossible is it to play the 3rd man build-up without one.

How is wanting a keeper to be good at keeping bad? No one wants someone who is a total hoaf with the ball but the keeping skills come first and should always. We don't lose to Galatasaray if he's a good keeper. That game in Istanbul changed our whole fortunes in Europe.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

That's a poor reaction for the third goal. There is no defending that, no matter what. You should never do that.

In the compilations I watched prior to him coming to United, it was the one negativity that stood out in those clips, he always pushed the ball into a dangerous area, or was not making clean saves, where he collected the ball cleanly. He was lucky that it was mostly shots from a distance in those clips, and there is nobody to pounce on those, so he had time to collect the spill. But here, it's a problem.

Agreed, think he needed to do better with letting the ball spill - Multiple times he has dropped it rather than comfortably catch.

It will be a big season for him and I do think if we manage to play a higher line it will be a lot better for him as we can see more of his positives.

 

[Rossa]

He's good I reckon. It's hard because he did make mistakes but he faced 20 shots per match, if he hadn't faced such an obscene number then I reckon people would be raving about him.

That lad @David De Gea being silly. There is no world that goal is anything to do with the keeper. The fact that is what you're pulling out is telling.

In my opinion and limited understanding of xGOT, I think it is completely the opposite. From what I gather, xGOT is accumulated, meaning that many shots that are normally of a poor xG statistic, will accumulate to a high xGOT. If you for instance are bombarded every match with shots outside the box, they will accumulate to a high xGOT, but you would also expect the goalie to save arguably all of them. Thus, facing 20+ shots every game actually inflates his stats. 10 shots with an xG of 0,20, will actually inflate Onana's stats quite drastically. Using the eye test, this also rings more true. I cannot understand that anyone watching him play can rightfully argue that he is top three goalie in the league in terms of shot stopping. At the very best, he is average - I'd argue slightly below average. In particular, low shots seems to be an issue with him. His technique there has also been called out by Schmeichel for instance.

There was a piece on this a few years ago where Lloris went from having very good stats to suddenly becoming one of the worst in the league. Delving into the stats meant that he hadn't change, but the style of the team had changed so that he faced far less shots, but the ones he did face were often one on ones that he was not expected to save, but accumulated he had a negative xGOT. The next season with a different manager and style his stats went up again.

Guessing, I think manager of opposing teams tell their players to shoot because he will let some in - and we do. Remember when DDG came to the club and let in a good few very soft shots? Attackers started shooting left and right at him, and seeing as some went in, they kept on doing it. When he became DeGod, they stopped as it was pointless. With Onana, players may very well think that a half decent shot has a chance of going past him still, and so they keep on shooting even if xG is a little on the low side.

 

[Rossa]

There's no doubt there are serious question marks over Onana, but at the same time there's also no doubt that some people go significantly overboard about how many and/or how bad his mistakes are. Both can be true at the same time and that is clearly the case here.

Some people literally criticise him for over 50% of the goals we concede, which basically means they expect that a 'good' goalkeeper would have allowed us to have the lowest goals conceded in the league last season. Which is clearly ridiculous considering the state of our team and the way we were letting record amount of shots at goal. As far as I can see, most (not all) of the people defending Onana just try to keep it fair and criticise him for the ones that he actually deserves it rather than the ridiculous exaggeration that some do.

My biggest concern with him is that he may not be responsible for the goals per se, but there are far too many goals that he could have saved. Shots that are not great that a prime DDG, an Allisson, VDS, Neuer etc would rather easily save, seem to often go in. He does make some decent saves, but even when you look at those, they are often a result from him being slightly poorly placed to start with.

He is extremely composed with the ball - but as an out and out goalie, what is his biggest strength? Neuer is brilliant at commanding the box, prime DDG had arguably consistently the best reflexes I've seen; Allisson is sickeningly good one on one as well as being a good shot stopper. What is Onana's greatest trait apart from his ball playing abilities?

 

[El Jefe]

There's no doubt there are serious question marks over Onana, but at the same time there's also no doubt that some people go significantly overboard about how many and/or how bad his mistakes are. Both can be true at the same time and that is clearly the case here.

Some people literally criticise him for over 50% of the goals we concede, which basically means they expect that a 'good' goalkeeper would have allowed us to have the lowest goals conceded in the league last season. Which is clearly ridiculous considering the state of our team and the way we were letting record amount of shots at goal. As far as I can see, most (not all) of the people defending Onana just try to keep it fair and criticise him for the ones that he actually deserves it rather than the ridiculous exaggeration that some do.

You are right that he gets unfair criticism for goals he concedes but it’s a product of him being an average keeper because you end up second guessing him.

The goalkepeper position to me is judged by how calm or confident you are in your No.1. Onana makes people jumpy and nervous, so he will not get the benefit of the doubt for a lot of goals he lets in.

 

[Member 76197]

In my opinion and limited understanding of xGOT, I think it is completely the opposite. From what I gather, xGOT is accumulated, meaning that many shots that are normally of a poor xG statistic, will accumulate to a high xGOT. If you for instance are bombarded every match with shots outside the box, they will accumulate to a high xGOT, but you would also expect the goalie to save arguably all of them. Thus, facing 20+ shots every game actually inflates his stats. 10 shots with an xG of 0,20, will actually inflate Onana's stats quite drastically. Using the eye test, this also rings more true. I cannot understand that anyone watching him play can rightfully argue that he is top three goalie in the league in terms of shot stopping. At the very best, he is average - I'd argue slightly below average. In particular, low shots seems to be an issue with him. His technique there has also been called out by Schmeichel for instance.

There was a piece on this a few years ago where Lloris went from having very good stats to suddenly becoming one of the worst in the league. Delving into the stats meant that he hadn't change, but the style of the team had changed so that he faced far less shots, but the ones he did face were often one on ones that he was not expected to save, but accumulated he had a negative xGOT. The next season with a different manager and style his stats went up again.

Guessing, I think manager of opposing teams tell their players to shoot because he will let some in - and we do. Remember when DDG came to the club and let in a good few very soft shots? Attackers started shooting left and right at him, and seeing as some went in, they kept on doing it. When he became DeGod, they stopped as it was pointless. With Onana, players may very well think that a half decent shot has a chance of going past him still, and so they keep on shooting even if xG is a little on the low side.

I think this hits the nail on the head and why I refuse to read in to these xG stats. I class myself as an xG atheist and long for the days (not too long ago) when no one mentioned it and it wasn't one of the most common stats brought up. Even when it first started popping up all the time I thought it just sounded like some American Soccer Ball Stats Bonanza nonsense.

I 100% believe teams were taking more shots than normal at Onana because his poor shot stopping and tendency to slap shots back in to dangerous areas will have been picked up by opposition teams. So while the xG zealots are using their bean counters to tot up shots I'm just watching Onana letting lots of soft goals in, making shots look unsaveable by his poor technique and position and making regular blunders. That all tells me more about a keeper's ability than someone taking a tally of the amount of shots faced and comparing it with goals scored.

 

[MadDogg]

My biggest concern with him is that he may not be responsible for the goals per se, but there are far too many goals that he could have saved. Shots that are not great that a prime DDG, an Allisson, VDS, Neuer etc would rather easily save, seem to often go in. He does make some decent saves, but even when you look at those, they are often a result from him being slightly poorly placed to start with.

He is extremely composed with the ball - but as an out and out goalie, what is his biggest strength? Neuer is brilliant at commanding the box, prime DDG had arguably consistently the best reflexes I've seen; Allisson is sickeningly good one on one as well as being a good shot stopper. What is Onana's greatest trait apart from his ball playing abilities?

That's all true, but once again I would say that 'the goals that he could have saved' get exaggerated. There's definitely some, definitely more than I would like, but what you describe there comes back to the people who seem to include 50% or more of the goals that he concedes in that category. Virtually every goal that isn't some world class wondergoal sees some of his critics come in here and say that he should have saved it, which is obviously completely unrealistic. All goalkeepers concede plenty of goals like that.

Now, if your goalkeeper concedes more of those goals than you'd like (as Onana has done so far unfortunately) then that's fair criticism. But many are making out that a good goalkeeper would save every single one of them and therefore put the blame on Onana for all of them, which is where my issue is.

 

[Zed is not dead]

That's all true, but once again I would say that 'the goals that he could have saved' get exaggerated. There's definitely some, definitely more than I would like, but what you describe there comes back to the people who seem to include 50% or more of the goals that he concedes in that category. Virtually every goal that isn't some world class wondergoal sees some of his critics come in here and say that he should have saved it, which is obviously completely unrealistic. All goalkeepers concede plenty of goals like that.

Now, if your goalkeeper concedes more of those goals than you'd like (as Onana has done so far unfortunately) then that's fair criticism. But many are making out that a good goalkeeper would save every single one of them and therefore put the blame on Onana for all of them, which is where my issue is.

I think people are not expecting him to save all shots he faces, but not to let so many easy shots get in regularly.

Any shot that is close to the post, he never saves that, even if there’s no power. First post shots go in as well. And sometimes he just stands flat footed and watches shots pss him by.
The issue is that there are too many easy goals he conceded in a single season, too many mistakes (hello Champions League games where he tried his best to put our opponents back in the game any time he could).
Unfortunately keepers are judged on their mistakes, as they’re the last line of defence for the team. For me, he used all his credit last season and he will need to be consistently very very good next season

 

[Globule]

He's very average (arguably below average for the PL) in terms of the basic fundamentals of goalkeeping. What sets him apart is that he is extremely comfortable receiving the ball to feet and with short passing around the box, which is something that most top clubs expect of their keepers.

His long passing is not that great. Certainly nowhere near as good as I was hoping when we were first interested in him.

The problem for me is that the positives come nowhere close to offsetting his weaknesses. Maybe at a prime Barcelona he would look elite, but not with us in our current state.

 

[Pickle85]

That's why you aren't a licensed football coach and those who are prefer Sweeper Keepers to have a chance to beat a high press.

Some of you need to get out of 90s and watch how all the modern goalkeepers such as Onana have changed the game and how impossible is it to play the 3rd man build-up without one.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that that poster said. They said that they'd rather have a goalkeeper that's good at traditional goalkeeping (eg keeping the ball out of the net) and poor with the ball at feet, than a goalkeeper that's poor at goalkeeping but good with the ball at feet. How is that remotely controversial? Obviously we want a keeper that's good at both but that's not what was being discussed.

 

[abkmufc92]

When the only praise you can give this prick is passing ball you know he’s a fecking dreadful keeper.

There is not a single aspect of keeping you can praise him for, he's pathetic at everything.

It's like watching a fecking outfield player in goal.

 

[Rossa]

That's all true, but once again I would say that 'the goals that he could have saved' get exaggerated. There's definitely some, definitely more than I would like, but what you describe there comes back to the people who seem to include 50% or more of the goals that he concedes in that category. Virtually every goal that isn't some world class wondergoal sees some of his critics come in here and say that he should have saved it, which is obviously completely unrealistic. All goalkeepers concede plenty of goals like that.

Now, if your goalkeeper concedes more of those goals than you'd like (as Onana has done so far unfortunately) then that's fair criticism. But many are making out that a good goalkeeper would save every single one of them and therefore put the blame on Onana for all of them, which is where my issue is.

Of course every goalie lets in goals that you expect them to save, and most goalies also have flaws in their games. I've regularly seen Allisson let in goals that I would expect DDG to save, but I'm sure that goes both ways. Unfortunately, I think Onana has more of these than most goalies that we would like to compare him to - the very best. In my opinion, he just isn't amongst the best goalies in the world. One of the reason we sold DDG was that he no longer was one of the best. He was never great with his feet, but other parts of his game made somewhat up for that. I don't think Onana has a redeeming quality in preventing the ball from hitting the back of the net that makes up for his shortcomings in saving certain shots.

You are right though - his game is scrutinised to such an extent that we expect EVERY one of those goals that are open for discussion to be saved. No goalie in the world saves all of them.

 

[RedDevil@84]

That's why you aren't a licensed football coach and those who are prefer Sweeper Keepers to have a chance to beat a high press.

Some of you need to get out of 90s and watch how all the modern goalkeepers such as Onana have changed the game and how impossible is it to play the 3rd man build-up without one.

Yup. Licensed football coaches are actively looking for sweeper keepers who are average to low shot stoppers.

 

[RedDevil@84]

That's all true, but once again I would say that 'the goals that he could have saved' get exaggerated. There's definitely some, definitely more than I would like, but what you describe there comes back to the people who seem to include 50% or more of the goals that he concedes in that category. Virtually every goal that isn't some world class wondergoal sees some of his critics come in here and say that he should have saved it, which is obviously completely unrealistic. All goalkeepers concede plenty of goals like that.

Now, if your goalkeeper concedes more of those goals than you'd like (as Onana has done so far unfortunately) then that's fair criticism. But many are making out that a good goalkeeper would save every single one of them and therefore put the blame on Onana for all of them, which is where my issue is.

He need not save every shot. But at least the shots that go in should be high quality ones. He is often flat footed, his positioning, anticipation is all average.

The other alternative is to think of him as a McT of midfielders and keep our expectations low and think of it as a position we need to upgrade in future.

 

[lex talionis]

All we can hope for from Onana is average shot stopping ability. He does excel at fizzing the ball to his fullbacks but if he ships in goals that Heaton would save it’s not a great tradeoff.

 

[Rossa]

I think this hits the nail on the head and why I refuse to read in to these xG stats. I class myself as an xG atheist and long for the days (not too long ago) when no one mentioned it and it wasn't one of the most common stats brought up. Even when it first started popping up all the time I thought it just sounded like some American Soccer Ball Stats Bonanza nonsense.

I 100% believe teams were taking more shots than normal at Onana because his poor shot stopping and tendency to slap shots back in to dangerous areas will have been picked up by opposition teams. So while the xG zealots are using their bean counters to tot up shots I'm just watching Onana letting lots of soft goals in, making shots look unsaveable by his poor technique and position and making regular blunders. That all tells me more about a keeper's ability than someone taking a tally of the amount of shots faced and comparing it with goals scored.

I'm with you, and I also don't understand why xGOT isn't scrutinised more when talking about accumulation and the very fact why United concede so many shots. It's not a discussion on chances created but shots conceded. They shoot because they believe they can score. If you face Neuer, you don't do lofty crosses in the box as he will pick them like cherries. Against DDG, that's as good as any cross. You play your opposition.

Onana's stats are inflated because, from my understanding, xGOT is accumulated and thus the sheer amount of shots he faces will accordingly provide him with good stats from saving a number of shots, and combined he exceeds an expected saves stats. However, he should save almost all of these shots, but he rarely saves shots that I think "wow, few other goalies would ever save that". He is, at best, an average shot stopper. At best average at claiming balls, and he might be a little over average at sweeping. His long range distribution also seems about average.

His only standout attribute is his composure on the ball. That's like having a centre back that only excells at short passing, or a fullback who is only good in the air. It's not pointless, but nor should it be a priority. Allisson is one of the most rouned goalies. He's not the best with the ball at his feet, but he is that much better than DDG that it's not a concern (lucky as feck with some of those loose balls and poor short passes though).

DDG was long overdue as he declined massively in his last seasons. However, we should not be comparing Onana to the worst DDG. He should be compared to him in his prime as United need and expect one of the best goalies around. All top teams need that. Onana isn't close to being one of the best goalies.

 

[arthurka]

I am looking forward to this season we are already grilling every single player on the Caf and the season hasn't started yet.

 

[UpWithRivers]

He is basically Antony. He looks fkn brilliant at times. Sexy even. But then you realize their fundamental flaws. Lots f players are like this Heskey, Traore etc. They look like they have everything but they are missing a screw. Its not that they make mistakes. Thats bad but you can correct mistakes. They are missing fundamentals of their game. Onana is all wrong positionally. He leads with the wrong hand. He pushes balls into danger. And on and on. Its only little things. Half a step too far back here. Moving a half a second late there etc. Its hard as a fan to know exactly every time he does it because we aren't professional goalkeepers or coaches. But we can see it just looks wrong. Ben Foster does good analysis on keepers and he did one on Onana.

All keepers make these mistakes. But the difference between the top and bottom keepers is the top keepers make less of them. Onana just makes too many. He will do the right thing 80 percent of the time but you know he will be off at some point. Sometimes we get punished, sometimes not. But its a liability.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Member 76197]

He is basically Antony. He looks fkn brilliant at times. Sexy even. But then you realize their fundamental flaws. Lots f players are like this Heskey, Traore etc. They look like they have everything but they are missing a screw. Its not that they make mistakes. Thats bad but you can correct mistakes. They are missing fundamentals of their game. Onana is all wrong positionally. He leads with the wrong hand. He pushes balls into danger. And on and on. Its only little things. Half a step too far back here. Moving a half a second late there etc. Its hard as a fan to know exactly every time he does it because we aren't professional goalkeepers or coaches. But we can see it just looks wrong. Ben Foster does good analysis on keepers and he did one on Onana.

All keepers make these mistakes. But the difference between the top and bottom keepers is the top keepers make less of them. Onana just makes too many. He will do the right thing 80 percent of the time but you know he will be off at some point. Sometimes we get punished, sometimes not. But its a liability.

Wow thank you for bringing that Ben Foster video to my attention. Never really watched any of his stuff buy my god it was so vindicating to hear two actual goalkeeping experts say pretty much all the same things I've said about Onana from the start. Yet every time I bring it up here it's dismissed because I couldn't possibly know enough as an amateur keeper to comment on such things.

I think Onana's howlers are indisputable he has plenty of them, all keepers have some and I just think Onana has more than average in that regard.

What really concerns me is the amount of goals that go in that I can't help but think a top keeper could do better yet there's a certain cohort here will always say I'm being too harsh or infuriatingly make it about DDG because of my username.

Here we have Ben Foster who's pedigree is indisputable and the other guy who apparently is a former PL keeper and 20 years experience of GK coaching closely analyse Onana and say all the same things I've been saying. His tendency to have a wide stance, his tendency to be beat at the near post, his tendency to be hopping when he should be setting himself for the dive, his tendency for such poor technique when diving for low shots. Have these guys just got a DDG agenda too or could it be that Onana has major shortcomings in his game?

Another video I found on their channel there, another couple of goals I criticised Onana for and was told I was too harsh or was unreasonable to expect better. These aren't the flaws of a young keeper who will learn, these aren't one offs this is all the time with Onana and its going to be the same this season.

 

[SparcMac]

I love that, some people are about to lose their marbles 2 games into the season

 

[Greck]

It's deserved. He has a tendency to gravitate towards the near post rather than taking a center angle to narrow the goal. Like he traded the ability to come off his line for the ability to do the bare minimum shielding it. He will always be prone to placed finishes while looking like a god stopping power shots

 

[Tony247]

Hope he doesn't start taking corners.

 

[Nori-]

Whats with the "Taking more risks" comment?

Your job is to be a safe pair of hands, to take very little risks as the last line of defense in front of goals.

I always feel he holds the ball for too long, he encourages strikers to run at him - sometimes for no reason.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Less talking, more saving

 

[Remember the geese]

Whats with the "Taking more risks" comment?

Your job is to be a safe pair of heads, to take very little risks as the last line of defense in front of goals.

I always feel he holds the ball for too long, he encourages strikers to run at him - sometimes for no reason.

Bit of an old school take there. You take risks to create space. The reason he holds onto the ball is to tempt opposition players to press him, which in theory creates gaps and therefore more space for our outfield players.

 

[Oranges038]

Wow thank you for bringing that Ben Foster video to my attention. Never really watched any of his stuff buy my god it was so vindicating to hear two actual goalkeeping experts say pretty much all the same things I've said about Onana from the start. Yet every time I bring it up here it's dismissed because I couldn't possibly know enough as an amateur keeper to comment on such things.

I think Onana's howlers are indisputable he has plenty of them, all keepers have some and I just think Onana has more than average in that regard.

What really concerns me is the amount of goals that go in that I can't help but think a top keeper could do better yet there's a certain cohort here will always say I'm being too harsh or infuriatingly make it about DDG because of my username.

Here we have Ben Foster who's pedigree is indisputable and the other guy who apparently is a former PL keeper and 20 years experience of GK coaching closely analyse Onana and say all the same things I've been saying. His tendency to have a wide stance, his tendency to be beat at the near post, his tendency to be hopping when he should be setting himself for the dive, his tendency for such poor technique when diving for low shots. Have these guys just got a DDG agenda too or could it be that Onana has major shortcomings in his game?

Another video I found on their channel there, another couple of goals I criticised Onana for and was told I was too harsh or was unreasonable to expect better. These aren't the flaws of a young keeper who will learn, these aren't one offs this is all the time with Onana and its going to be the same this season.

Dave Watson, who's career highlight was probably letting in this goal.

 

[RedDevil@84]

As if being an average GK wasn't enough, he lets his mouth run like anything. I find very few United players annoying. He is fast becoming one of them.

 

[The Cat]

"Trust me". If only we could.

 

[FrankDrebin]

I cant make up my mind on this keeper.

 

[imonkmc]

Weird thing to say as keeper is the last player you want, to take risk

 

[Dominos]

No mistakes today so decent outing.

He's got De Gea's habit of diving the wrong way 90% of the time on pens though.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Someone needs to have a talk with him about penalties. Dives way too early at times.

 

[ArmaDino]

It's crazy to think that we sold Kovar and then spent a fortune to bring Onana. What a waste of money.

Every time a shot comes in, I'm already anxious if he is going to spill it. Not a good thing. A GK is supposed to inspire calmness to his back line, not make them more anxious.

I also noticed his passing isn't as good as it used to be at Inter. He looks like he's turning into DDG in that regard... i.e. he hoofs it forward more often than not. I thought we brought him because he was some kind of Scholes/Pirlo/Xavi type GK. Kind of concerning.