Every stat is meaningless by that logic.
24
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 10
- Clean sheets
- 4
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 0
Well he also made 149 saves, the most in the league. Onana faced 204 shots, in comparison Ederson only faced 82 and Alisson faced 111 shots, yet Onana still saved a higher percentage while playing all 38 league games.
Alisson only played 28 games, Ederson only played 33 games. The more games played and more shots conceded has a higher chance of the save percentage going down.
He was terrible last season and if he doesn't improve, he should be sold soon. That's how bad he was.
It's amazing how winning a few games and FA Cup have deluded many to think players like Onana and Bruno weren't horrendous last season.
Ten Hag is on thin ice. Same with Onana, Antony, Sancho, Rashford etc.
We have to get off to a good start or the manager and his players will be gone or benched.
It's amazing how winning a few games and FA Cup have deluded many to think players like Onana and Bruno weren't horrendous last season.
Ten Hag is on thin ice. Same with Onana, Antony, Sancho, Rashford etc.
We have to get off to a good start or the manager and his players will be gone or benched.
i think you’re confused on how statistics work.
How did you come up with the statement that the quality of the shots against him was poor? Ridiculous post.
A bit harsh. Onana had terrible games last season. bit he was not consistently terrible. Especially after the AFCON he was more often good than bad, although he there is no doubt that he is not a top shot-stopper. Onana's brief, justifiably so, is that he passes the ball brilliantly to his fullbacks to start new attacks.
When you cost a team CL football you deserve all the criticism. Even when he played better he looked shaky.
I do believe keepers can improve once they are more familiar with their surroundings. Let's hope he does because things don't look good so far.
I do believe keepers can improve once they are more familiar with their surroundings. Let's hope he does because things don't look good so far.
It was a very mixed first season, and personally i wish we had a more solid 2nd goalkeeper if things go wrong or to give him a bit more competition.
On a positive note, i do really like the way he gets the ball out of his feet so quickly and plays simple passes. He can be a big part of us improving our defensive set up, especially with Martinez and Shaw hopefully staying fit, but at the same time, I hope we see less mistakes this season.
On a positive note, i do really like the way he gets the ball out of his feet so quickly and plays simple passes. He can be a big part of us improving our defensive set up, especially with Martinez and Shaw hopefully staying fit, but at the same time, I hope we see less mistakes this season.
For me he's done too much dodgy shit already for me to fully trust him. We've seen what he is capable of doing. I'll never not be on edge a bit when a cross comes in and knowing there's a good chance he gets nowhere near it, from some absolute questionable aspects of his technique, I'll never relax.
I'm always happy to give players 2 seasons before making a definitive judgement. One bad year doesn't make a bad player.
But I am concerned about him, he made an absurd amount of errors last year, he seems a very howler-prone goalkeeper. And there is something "off" about his shot stopping.
Now, there was certainly a period where posters on here were blaming him for every goal we conceded which was ridiculous. But we can't lie there was a lot of goals conceded where he has to do better. Him over-performing his xGA by so much in the league is a mystery to me, the stats would suggest that most weeks we should have been saying "Onana's incredible shot stopping kept us in that game", but I don't recall anyone really commenting as such throughout the season.
If we get better at playing out from the back as a team that might make him shine in that area. But it won't fix the errors when facing shots on goal. The biggest thing we can do to reduce his errors is cut the amount of shots we face in half.
But I am concerned about him, he made an absurd amount of errors last year, he seems a very howler-prone goalkeeper. And there is something "off" about his shot stopping.
Now, there was certainly a period where posters on here were blaming him for every goal we conceded which was ridiculous. But we can't lie there was a lot of goals conceded where he has to do better. Him over-performing his xGA by so much in the league is a mystery to me, the stats would suggest that most weeks we should have been saying "Onana's incredible shot stopping kept us in that game", but I don't recall anyone really commenting as such throughout the season.
If we get better at playing out from the back as a team that might make him shine in that area. But it won't fix the errors when facing shots on goal. The biggest thing we can do to reduce his errors is cut the amount of shots we face in half.
Indeed, and I hope you're correct. And I understand you have stats to support your position, and I am going off "vibes", but in my mind he was constantly beaten by poor shots. Shots that sometimes made me question if he was betting on the matches because they were so poor and yet beat him so easily. These weren't shots where he got his hands to them and just wasn't able to keep them out, but shots that were not in the corners and not hit with venom yet he didn't get near them. Sometimes he just stood there and watched without even moving.
And thats just the shot stopping! I can't remember all the times I thought for sure he was going to give away a penalty for crashing into someone when attempting to claim a cross. It was almost laughable at times.
All in all he's a worse signing than Antony, in my opinion!
Is any keeper consistently terrible? The Tim Howard Roy Carol era that we bemoaned was really them making key mistakes in high profile games and not being at the level to what game after (and a few keepers before). At this level, give a keeper enough time and they’ll have good games and make good saves - the question is the overall quality over the course of the season and
Onana made too many terrible mistakes last season hence it was a terrible season. I was all for a ball playing keeper but his passing wasn’t that great and his keeping was poor. Definitely someone who should be on the watch list this season to have to prove themselves good enough.
I’ve never seen a player so single handedly over the span of a number of games cost his team and be reason they went out as Onana and us in the CL last season.
Anyway he’s here for this season so let’s hope he shows his quality now. There was an improvement in the second half of last season so maybe he’ll build on that and go up a few levels.
Where do we stand if the season starts and he starts making the same mistakes? It he starts letting tame efforts in and making more of those geromino charges for crosses? I just don't believe that having a settled defence is going to change his ability, just maybe present less chances for him to show his shortcomings. There's compilations out there will show you the same issues at Ajax and even his brief spell at Inter.
He's not a young kid that you can see improving in these aspects, this is him, this is his style. If some people believe his short passing game is worth sacfricing a safe pair of hands that's one thing but I don't think that works if he keeps costing games (or even entire European campaigns) with completely unforced errors.
He's not a young kid that you can see improving in these aspects, this is him, this is his style. If some people believe his short passing game is worth sacfricing a safe pair of hands that's one thing but I don't think that works if he keeps costing games (or even entire European campaigns) with completely unforced errors.
Last edited by a moderator:
You found a new club yet?
Wish we had just triggered Diogo Costa's clause, wouldn't cost that much more and he has all of Onana's ability with the ball and is a much much better shot stopper/cross collector.
I haven't lost faith in Andre though, last season was weird, had many howlers, but also the fact of having to face so many shots. I'm sure this season will be more good than bad.
I haven't lost faith in Andre though, last season was weird, had many howlers, but also the fact of having to face so many shots. I'm sure this season will be more good than bad.
He seemed fine last season in the PL, obviously had an absolute 'mare for yous in the CL but I feel like that clouds a lot of people's judgement. Statistically he was one of the best shotstoppers in the league last year.
Prown to a howler but who isn't these days. If he plays out from the back with that sort of composure and technical ability from those Rangers highlights that'll more than make up for the odd error.
I think our ability to play out of the back was severely hindered last season and we would have only invited even more pressure and shots on goal. But I think that will change this season. As mentioned, this was only Rangers, but when the whole team is ready to receive the ball it also makes the keeper more confident in playing those passes. He definitely is capable of playing the ball around pressing opposition.
His shot-stopping and command of his area will receive more attention in the opening months. Let's hope he builds on the form from the second half of the season. While the errors in the first half of the season were extremely costly, I think his shot stopping is not that bad. I feel it was a result of not handling the early pressure well and not developing confidence in an already wretched season. For some mentioning the his speed while going down for low shots, it is something that can be improved in training.
If the errors continue, we will definitely look elsewhere for solutions.
His shot-stopping and command of his area will receive more attention in the opening months. Let's hope he builds on the form from the second half of the season. While the errors in the first half of the season were extremely costly, I think his shot stopping is not that bad. I feel it was a result of not handling the early pressure well and not developing confidence in an already wretched season. For some mentioning the his speed while going down for low shots, it is something that can be improved in training.
If the errors continue, we will definitely look elsewhere for solutions.
This. From Christmas he was pretty good but everyone remembers his mistakes from the 1st half of the season.
This narrative that he was great after Christmas really needs to end. He was still letting soft goals in on a consistent basis, right up to the last match he let a simple on in at his near post against City. Lots of other goals that while not howlers you have to think a keeper can do better.
I only hope one of those we have in reserve are ready to step up because I'd hate to think he'll get another season completely unchallenged just because he's one of Eric's guys. I forsee a lot of activity in this thread once the season gets going and not to discuss how good he's been.
I only hope one of those we have in reserve are ready to step up because I'd hate to think he'll get another season completely unchallenged just because he's one of Eric's guys. I forsee a lot of activity in this thread once the season gets going and not to discuss how good he's been.
I’d rather the narrative that “he was still letting soft goals in on a consistent basis” ended. Because I know which narrative is closer to the truth and it’s not that one.
I like those fast paced daisy cutters.
To make sure i wasn't imagining things I've just gone back through a lot of the matches in the second half of the season. Constantly beaten at his near post, constantly beaten by low shots. Terrible reaction times to anything deflected, terrible positioning often leaving a gaping hole in the net.
It's not difficult to see why if you've ever been a goalkeeper. He has this really wide stance when he's anticipating a shot, when you have your legs in that position it's only natural it's going to take more time to get yourself down low and quick. He obviously favours parrying over catching and yet I've never seen the ball cannon off a parry at such random angles as it does with Onana.
It's nothing new for him, I've watched lots of compilations of him (good and bad) from his Ajax and Inter days. Then I suppose it comes down to a judgement whether you think sacrificing good goalkeeping in favour of a good ability in short passing is worth it. For me it's not but that just me being a goalkeeper enjoyer who enjoys a goalkeeper making great saves. Old fashioned these days I know but that's just me I suppose.
In the 30 minutes since you read my post?!? Good one.For the record I’ve played as a goalkeeper (still do, in a different sport) so know a bit about goalkeeping technique. Onana does have an unconventional technique but loads of excellent keepers don’t have conventional technique. And keepers with brilliant technique can be lacking in other areas (bravery, reflexes, athleticism etc) There’s more than one way to keep the ball out of the net and all available stats confirm that Onana did a pretty good job at doing exactly that last season.
Which is not to ignore his howlers, especially in Europe. But we can (hopefully) put that down to a settling in period. Because he definitely did get more assured as the season went on.
Last edited:
Glad I could give you a chuckle but yes. The wonders of modern technology, put in to Google 'Man United results' and it brings up all their results with a handy link to highlights either on YouTube for sky or on TNT websites. Then it was just a matter of scrolling through the video for when goals are conceded.
For the record I’ve played as a goalkeeper (still do, in a different sport) so know a bit about goalkeeping technique. Onana does have an unconventional technique but loads of excellent keepers don’t have conventional technique. And keepers with brilliant technique can be lacking in other areas (bravery, reflexes, athleticism etc) There’s more than one way to keep the ball out of the net and all available stats confirm that Onana did a pretty good job at doing exactly that last season.
Which is not to ignore his howlers, especially in Europe. But we can (hopefully) put that down to a settling in period. Because he definitely did get more assured as the season went on.
My issue with Onana's unconventional technique is that, for me, it's directly contributing to his biggest weakness which is low shots. Unfortunately for us low shots aren't exactly an uncommon thing to face particularly if any kind of decent opposition data team pick up on it and tell attackers to focus on that.
I would absolutely love it if he proved me wrong but I just don't see where this big improvement in his shot stopping is going to come from other than this mantra that if he faces less shots he'll have less opportunity to let soft shots in.
As for the stats I'm an Xg atheist, I don't believe a simple totting up of shots faced tells you enough about the quality of a keeper or his shot stopping ability. For that I rely on what I see with my eyes and as I've said time and time again what I've seen from Onana concerns me greatly.
That’s a crappy way to assess any goalkeeper. Like judging a striker only by looking at chances missed. You’d turn down the chance to sign Haaland if that was your approach.
Nah, consistency is much more important for a goalkeeper. A striker who spaffs three big chances but scores a worldie every game is still a great striker. A keeper who chucks three in the net but does one wonder save isn't so good.
However, apart from the soft one in the cup final, Onana has largely been very consistent for us since the turn of the year.
Crappy way to assess a goalkeeper, yes, perfect way to assess whether he was still letting soft goals in, in my opinion. That was my original point and the narrative that apparently needed dispelled.
For what it's worth I think his lowlights are one thing but the sheer number he accumulated in one season can't be dismissed. He's amassed a blooper reel in one season with us that would compete with most keepers careers. I was a massive DDG fan obviously but I knew it was time to move him on. The trouble is Onana seems to be no better than the absolute worst version of DDG from his last season.
The analogy isn’t 100% accurate, I agree. The margin of error allowed for goalkeepers has always been much less than in any other position. That’s the inherent unfairness of the position (which I’m well familiar with, believe me!) But if you try to judge a goalkeeper by only looking at goals conceded it will give you a very distorted and negative impression of his overall contribution.
Onana’s blooper reel from last season would struggle to compete with DDG’s from the season before, never mind his whole career.
As for comparing those two seasons overall their ability at stopping shots was similar but Onana was a hell of a lot better at dealing with crosses and better with the ball at his feet. That’s an obvious upgrade right there. If he can cut down the howlers this season then we have ourselves a big improvement from the previous incumbent.
The irony of this post.
To be clear, I was not on board with bringing in Onana, but to be fair he was much better in the second half of the season than the first half of the season. His first four months in goal for us were absurd bordering on being emblematic of everything that’s gone wrong with our player acquisition strategy (one great game against City, Pep headfakes us and we fall for it) since Ferguson left but in the second half he looked the part. Not perfect, as no one is, but more than adequate to perform the task at hand.
Casually slipping Bruno in there
he had more good games than bad games last season despite playing in a dysfunctional team. He created more chances than any other player in the league. Lets be real - he was far better than Onana. And Onana wasn't even that bad overall. I think you need to look up the definition of 'horrendous'.Casually slipping Bruno in there
Onana, Bruno, rashford, Antony, and Eriksen were all horrendous last season.
I stand by that. I watched every game. We were outplayed by relegation fodder. We relied on comebacks and playing well only in moments.
Bruno leads the league in chances created because he gets the ball and goes for a killer ball EVERY time. He's a weak and slow player who can't keep the ball and creates open spaces by running around everywhere. He's brilliant on his day and extremely durable but you can't control any game with him.
Onana cost us CL football in games we actually looked good attacking. He was dreadful and his kicking and passing didn't make up for his terrible shot stopping and shaky commanding.
Forget the stats. Bruno and Onana were horrendous last season. If they continue to be shit they will hopefully be moved on.
I'm sick of people glossing over that nightmare season. FA cup was brilliant but we were embarrassed in the CL and the league and league cup.
Ten Hag was shit. Every player bar Dalot, Hojland, Evans, Harry, Diallo was shit or injured. I wish we could clear out more players.
Last season Rashford and Antony were poor. Onana performed better than those two - I'd say overall his performances were mixed as he wasn't great but also wasn't horrendous. Bruno's performances were in a category above the aforementioned players. You don't win the Sir Matt Busby Player of the Year by being horrendous.
Thought he did well today. Good saves and great on the ball. 7/10 despite conceding 2 goals.
Personally i thought Onana could have saved Martinelli's goal but unfortunately he doesnt seem to have that gravitational ability to save the ball when a ball arrives under his waist or lower.
Not disputing your point on Onana's general weakness in saving low shots as per last season, but that's on Fish. Fish should have:
1. Charged down Martinelli earlier and/or
2. Picked a corner of the goal to block.
Instead, Fish stood directly in front of Onana 's ideal position and obstructed his line of sight. Sunday League defending.
Onana had to keep like he didn't have a defender in front of him and quickly take a couple steps to the far post which shifted his gravitational weight, allowing Martinelli to finish smartly into the near post.
Seems to be 3rd captain now after Varane has left.
And it starts.