Same. I think the way he moves isn't natural for a keeper. To me he looks like an actor.
24
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 14
- Clean sheets
- 4
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 0
Same. I think the way he moves isn't natural for a keeper. To me he looks like an actor.
The Peter Shilton technique, one he was roundly criticised for after the 1990 world cup.
I remember seeing something about penalties before, generally take less than half a second to hit the net, if you wait to see which way it goes your reaction time cannot compete with the speed of the ball. 90% of the time for a keeper it is pure guesswork. Takers have all the advantage now with how the keepers are not allowed to move etc. It really should be a two step spot kick to even it up a bit.
I still don't see how anyone can seriously put the blame on a keeper for not saving a penalty.
Agreed. He'll cost us again this season. A lot of the defensive insecurity stems from his shakiness
You’d only save penos down the middle or really bad ones surely?
Good on the ball.
Was annoyed that he didn't even seem to move on the Doku shot. Feels like he just has these moments where he freezes up and doesn't get down low on shots outside the box.
Was annoyed that he didn't even seem to move on the Doku shot. Feels like he just has these moments where he freezes up and doesn't get down low on shots outside the box.
He’s going to have practically the whole defence consisting of former Ajax players, so if he can’t settle his game this season we should move on
I agree with those who think we will end up upgrading in a year or two.
Love how press resistance he is, but feel like the basics allude him slightly. Hoping I am proven wrong though, as he seems like a nice guy.
Love how press resistance he is, but feel like the basics allude him slightly. Hoping I am proven wrong though, as he seems like a nice guy.
Did his job today but his passing is a bit daft.
That actually backfired, his momentum moving back to his left made it impossible for him to dive back right.
I like this. He’s Dutch also. And being Dutch is all you need to become a Manchester United member of staff.
I love him and it's so refreshing having a goalie with character.
The hate on him is so nauseating, I'll just have to grow my ignore list with some so-called United fans. To think we went from a keeper who we all knew was hopeless in penalties and seemed to be afraid of any physical contact, to someone barking out instructions and a few mind games here and there, but people end up saying he should shut up and stay rooted to his spot. A bunch of two-faced, spineless, hateful lot that I'll always be happy not to hear from.
The hate on him is so nauseating, I'll just have to grow my ignore list with some so-called United fans. To think we went from a keeper who we all knew was hopeless in penalties and seemed to be afraid of any physical contact, to someone barking out instructions and a few mind games here and there, but people end up saying he should shut up and stay rooted to his spot. A bunch of two-faced, spineless, hateful lot that I'll always be happy not to hear from.
I know nothing
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There was a brief period last season where he looked like he was going to come good but he's back to his clown routine. Just not reliable.
Sell him next summer and hopefully Diogo Costa will still be available to buy.
Sell him next summer and hopefully Diogo Costa will still be available to buy.
Absolutely no offence meant, Dave, but when Geir Jordet’s stats for penalties at the elite level says one thing and your personal experience from the Irish Cup tells another, I’m inclining towards a version were that might just be the difference of what might be effective for an elite level GK and an amateur level GK. Otherwise, why would it look that way in the stats?
Just out of curiosity more than anything, but how do you get a stat showing whether a keeper waited for the penalty taker to shoot?
Questionnaires, I’d guess
Absolutely no offence Grande but are you able to read all right? My source was not my amateur league career but the advice of David Seaman (maybe you're too young to know who he is but I bet he's saved more penalties than Geir Jordet and his little note pad). I thought it was the commonly accepted knowledge keepers pick a side and go for it. Do they not often have a cheat sheet showing where to go for each penalty? Is there not lots of work goes in to analysing which direction takers go to help in the guessing I refer to?
Come to think of it I struggle to think of a single keeper I've seen stay and try to save it on reaction so despite the sneering attitude of your response I think you're talking cow dung.
Sorry, didn’t mean to sound sneering or anything. I find it difficult to express humility and opinion properly in debates were facts and subjective assesment naturally mingle. Apologies.
I think your experience as a GK is interesting and valid, and maybe even moreso than David Seaman’s as he was GK in an era before the stistical science developped much on the subject. Of course his opinion still matters as well, but it’s also true that equally elite professionals have taken on board much of the scientific findings coming through after his career, so they must have found it a convincing addition to their subjective pool of knowledge at least.
Just listened to a former NT manager who said the evidence is mounting for the efficiency of waiting out shooters for top level GK. I don’t claim to know what’s best with any certainty at all, it’s just that it sounds convincing when people who has the job of analysing and deciding PK strategies for players at the top level stating an opinion, even more convincing to me than players from other eras or other levels, as it seems to me reasonable that PK is a game of probabilities very much.
Yep. He's very stiff for a goalkeeper.
It’s amazing how often you’re wrong about a position you (used to?) play and seem to have a particular interest in. You come across as though all that matters to you is finding an angle to slag off Onana, even if this means a few you end up talking total nonsense.
Waiting and reacting is a perfectly legitimate approach. In fact if you think back to when Pickford’s notes from the Euros were caught on camera there were three different options laid out for him, depending on the taker. Left, right or react.
So no, a keeper shouldn’t always pick a side. That would be a stupid approach. Sometimes it pays off to wait as long as possible and react after the kick is taken. And that decision will be influenced by research about the penalty takers and the strengths and preferences of the keeper.
Of all the things to target him on, penalties is mad. He’s got a great record. It’s better than Pickford and he’s lauded for it. It’s also a better record than Schmeichel, VdS, Barthez, Ederson, DdG (obviously). Alisson is the outlier here. He saves one in four penalties (having faced far less) which is mental.
I quite like his character. Perhaps the data is against me, but the penalty taker is in control. A water bottle list may give a keeper a best guess, but it’s still all vibes. Especially when you get to the 6th/7th taker.
I like how playful he is with all of it. The Haaland stuff was valid. The fella has a great record. Just act like an odd dickhead and make him take a bad penalty, because he rarely takes a bad one. Being a predictable keeper must massively improve the takers odds.
I also like his slightly starfish ‘up and sideways’ dive. As a viewer, it looks like he covers more of the goal and should see him get lucky more often.
I quite like his character. Perhaps the data is against me, but the penalty taker is in control. A water bottle list may give a keeper a best guess, but it’s still all vibes. Especially when you get to the 6th/7th taker.
I like how playful he is with all of it. The Haaland stuff was valid. The fella has a great record. Just act like an odd dickhead and make him take a bad penalty, because he rarely takes a bad one. Being a predictable keeper must massively improve the takers odds.
I also like his slightly starfish ‘up and sideways’ dive. As a viewer, it looks like he covers more of the goal and should see him get lucky more often.
meh really dont care about how he does for pens. Such a random moment generally anyways
Well, he didn't make a mistake this last game, or a blunder with his passing, wasn't an fault for the open play goal. Hence, the penalties are the only thing left.
After this exchange the other day I actually looked up a a few videos on YouTube and read a few articles either by top Goalkeepers (Neuer for example) and others by experienced goalkeeping coaches. Not a single one said wait until the striker kicks the ball and try to save it like any other shot. That's all I was debating at this time and not actually anything to do with Onana, just the point Grande had made that keepers should wait and try to react.It’s amazing how often you’re wrong about a position you (used to?) play and seem to have a particular interest in. You come across as though all that matters to you is finding an angle to slag off Onana, even if this means a few you end up talking total nonsense.
Waiting and reacting is a perfectly legitimate approach. In fact if you think back to when Pickford’s notes from the Euros were caught on camera there were three different options laid out for him, depending on the taker. Left, right or react.
So no, a keeper shouldn’t always pick a side. That would be a stupid approach. Sometimes it pays off to wait as long as possible and react after the kick is taken. And that decision will be influenced by research about the penalty takers and the strengths and preferences of the keeper.
I think the research about which way a striker goes, looking for anything you can read from strikers run up all of that is to help inform which way you guess, it's an educated guess but its still a guess. Even in the picture of Pickfords water battle you've provided out of 16 takers the advice to react is 2. A tiny minority.
Never been a fan don't think I will, he's here to stay.. frightens the crap out of me with some stuff he does..
1 in 8 still clearly contradicts your stupid assertion that no keeper ever stands and reacts. Which was my point. Which is where any normal person concedes that they’re wrong. But hey, you do you.
Wow my doubts about Onana's ability really has rattled your cage, eh? I've lurked about this forum on and off for years, obviously not contributing as religiously as you. One thing I can say for certain is your posts always have this certain tone of you being an authority on everything and such a dismissive sneering tone towards anyone who dares disagree with you. Maybe I should be honoured to have it directed at me?
Anyway, back on topic, Onana is a clown and will let us down constantly this season. Somewhat reassuring the majority here seem to agree on that despite your great authority insisting otherwise.
The only person pretending to be an authority here is you with your drivel about no keeper ever reacting to penalty and that you know best because you’ve watched some YouTube videos and once saved some penalties in a cup match. When it’s pointed out to you that your claim is factually incorrect, with objective evidence to prove this, your response is to double down. One of us clearly does need to have a think about how they discuss football on here. That person isn’t me.
Yeah I get it, you don't like me because of my user name. Because you tried to make every criticism of Onana about De Gea despite me saying on numerous occasions De Gea was done and it was correct to move him on.
You think you're great because you've a million posts on an Internet forum, I get that too. I'm sure it's a great badge of honour in your meaningless little life, somewhere you get to act the big lad and sneer at anyone who dares question you. Pathetic really, just like the pathetic little man I'm sure you are. Do you think people in work or down the pub are impressed with your post history on redcafe? I doubt it. But I know enough about you from seeing your name and distinctive tone for years that you're a horrible little cnut that really thinks he is something on a tiny corner of the Internet.
Anyway, I'm out. No doubt I'll be banned for this post anyway, for daring to criticise the Lord pogue mahone, the ultimate and unquestionable authority on everything. Yet for all his expertise he continues to back one of the worst keepers I've seen since supporting united. Your opinion is worthless due to that fact alone.
David De Gea over and out.
I'm not worried about Onana on pk's. It takes a special talent to be a pk specialist keeper.
It's not hard to envision significant improvement from Onana this season, but he simply must deliver on that improvement. What we saw from last was farce, making De Gea look like prime Yashin -- which he never was. What's done is done, but if Onana shits his pants again this season we need to evaluate other options and move on. The keeper position can't be one where we fukk around with clowns.
It's not hard to envision significant improvement from Onana this season, but he simply must deliver on that improvement. What we saw from last was farce, making De Gea look like prime Yashin -- which he never was. What's done is done, but if Onana shits his pants again this season we need to evaluate other options and move on. The keeper position can't be one where we fukk around with clowns.
Amigo, I'm no mod but this is unduly personal.
I know.
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The "D" in de Gea isn't supposed to be capitalized.
I'm keeping this for the next time I disagree with Pogue.
This really took a turn fast.
Ironically your initial point wasn't actually even bad. The David Seaman comments you referred to, I met him when I was about 10 or 11 at a goalkeeper coaching course and he said the same thing about watching a penalty takers eyes while they are walking towards the goal and it's something I always carried forward, particularly once you get past the first three or four penalty takers in a team there is nearly always a tell in terms of what they are going to do. It was a method I used pretty successfully when playing and advice I have always given when coaching too. It's not a fool-proof method, and the regular penalty takers at the highest level simply don't have that kind of tell anymore but generally speaking with a shoot out like Saturday that goes to numbers 7 or 8, you can tell with 3 or 4 of them as any player not fully confident will look where they are going to put the ball. I was behind the goal on Saturday and Bernardo, Nunes and Akanji all looked even after placing the ball; not that there was any stopping the one from Nunes in fairness.
I capitalise the 'D' in your ma
The Lord Mahone has replied to pretty much every post I've made on this thread with one of his sneering, snidey responses so yeah I hit the nuclear button. Why does it take so long to get an account deleted?
Shaw, Dalot, Yoro, Maguire, Lindelof, Evans, Amass.
I like this guy.