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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Massive Spanner said:
of course not, i don't think many people back in 2015 would've expected it to be close, let alone leave to win.

what I do find interesting in that thread is that a lot of people seemed to think the referendum way a good idea in order to "put the EU issue to bed" and whatnot. I guess it's only after the result came out that everyone decided Cameron was an idiot.
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The referendum WAS a good idea, you could just say it has been poorly executed.

It was pretty apparent Euro-scepticism was on the rise due to UKIP increasing their vote sharply (despite the contrived duopoly of FPTP, so no mean feat) & their squeezing of both the Tory & Labour mainstream vote. So what was the solution? Continue to deny the people a say?

Referendum (or a referendum on major EU treaties/EU constitution etc) should have been held long before the 2016 version imo.

Waving things like the Maastricht Treaty through without allowing the public a say in it? Hardly democratic. No referendums since 1975 despite the EEC/EU shifting sands since then?
 
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The government who are now complaining about Coopers bill should realise its only required because there's no trust in them or even commitment that they'd act as per the houses wishes (if they even ask for it).

I'd like the EU to be more forthright in coming up with timetables, they should be agreeing a menu of extensions depending on a referendum, GE, Mays deal, amended deal etc. They shouldn't have to but it would solve so many debates in the house if the conditions were clear.
 
Smores said:
The government who are now complaining about Coopers bill should realise its only required because there's no trust in them or even commitment that they'd act as per the houses wishes (if they even ask for it).

I'd like the EU to be more forthright in coming up with timetables, they should be agreeing a menu of extensions depending on a referendum, GE, Mays deal, amended deal etc. They shouldn't have to but it would solve so many debates in the house if the conditions were clear.
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You really think there will be an extension?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
In my personal experience it was little to do with age and all about education. Of the few elder people I know who voted leave were all at David Davis's level of mince and so were the younger and much younger ones.
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Considering the high proportion of over 65s that left school at 15, and often a school that prepared them for no more than a life of low-skilled work then I would say you're right, there no doubt is a correlation between age and education that would make looking at age alone invalid.

Should that disqualify them from the democratic process? Absolutely not, I would personally consider a threat to democracy as far more damaging to the country than Brexit could ever be. For all those who would like to see others denied a vote just consider it might be you disenfranchised next.
 
afrocentricity said:
In over 2 years no less...
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Maybe leavers don’t want to come forth, knowing this is a remain dominated forum, so it would be akin to you trying to argue the remain case on the Daily Mail’s comment pages perhaps? A lot of huff & puff but ultimately futile, really.

I tried myself immediately after the referendum, when the majority were incredibly bitter on here & was predictably shouted down (despite people not really arguing against my points, which were more long term than short term) so I gave up.
 
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711 said:
Considering the high proportion of over 65s that left school at 15, and often a school that prepared them for no more than a life of low-skilled work then I would say you're right, there no doubt is a correlation between age and education that would make looking at age alone invalid.

Should that disqualify them from the democratic process? Absolutely not, I would personally consider a threat to democracy as far more damaging to the country than Brexit could ever be. For all those who would like to see others denied a vote just consider it might be you disenfranchised next.
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Quite.
Yes everyone should have a vote, do not dispute that.
What I don't agree with is that something so complex as Brexit is put to the people, where most people don't understand a tiny fraction of it and even people who have a greater knowledge don't know everything.
 
It's not about debuting guess to the is or stupid. It's about having clear positions and arguements, articulating it well to the dumb and intelligent, and actually trying to combat the misinformation that happens (which lets face it, we don't do)... A more informed public is the way forward. Not holding my breath thow...

Strachans Cigar said:
Maybe leavers don’t want to come forth, knowing this is a remain dominated forum, so it would be akin to you trying to argue the remain case on the Daily Mail’s comment pages perhaps? A lot of huff & puff but ultimately futile, really. I tried myself immediately after the referendum, when the majority were incredibly bitter on here & was predicably shouted down (despite people not really arguing against my points, which were more long term than short term) so I gave up.
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So what if you got shouted down? Facts and compelling arguements would put an end to that swiftly.... What were those arguements that you posted? Let's see why you got shouted down.
 
I am praying beyond belief that May and Corbyn agree how to take a deal forward... but bring it back to the country. i.e. this is the deal the 2 parties will agree on, but over to you guys to confirm you want it.

Then they can pin it on us if the country still votes to leave. Or blame us if we have now changed our mind. Because I just can't see her wanting to be the prime minister / party that drags the countries economy down like that. It would be easier to blame the country. Would you really want to go in the history books for that??

I can dream.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Quite.
Yes everyone should have a vote, do not dispute that.
What I don't agree with is that something so complex as Brexit is put to the people, where most people don't understand a tiny fraction of it and even people who have a greater knowledge don't know everything.
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I get that, although it might be seen as an argument against a people's vote now. :)
 
Coxy said:
I am praying beyond belief that May and Corbyn agree how to take a deal forward... but bring it back to the country. i.e. this is the deal the 2 parties will agree on, but over to you guys to confirm you want it.

Then they can pin it on us if the country still votes to leave. Or blame us if we have now changed our mind. Because I just can't see her wanting to be the prime minister / party that drags the countries economy down like that. It would be easier to blame the country. Would you really want to go in the history books for that??

I can dream.
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I don't think May cares about that.
Her mission is to execute Brexit, how she does it and what the consequences are are immaterial to her, in her mind she would have succeeded if Brexit happens.
 
Penna said:
Complete with ankle tag, another Parliament first, I believe. I love the fact that the Brexit press are saying that it was her "aye" vote that was the deciding one for the Cooper Bill.
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To be fair, it was the deciding one.
Point to abstinence all you like.
 
afrocentricity said:
It's not about debuting guess to the is or stupid. It's about having clear positions and arguements, articulating it well to the dumb and intelligent, and actually trying to combat the misinformation that happens (which lets face it, we don't do)... A more informed public is the way forward. Not holding my breath thow...

So what if you got shouted down? Facts and compelling arguements would put an end to that swiftly.... What were those arguements that you posted? Let's see why you got shouted down.
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Nope. Been there & done that once so I’m out - in both senses of the phrase ;)
 
711 said:
I get that, although it might be seen as an argument against a people's vote now. :)
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Well, yes but , do two wrongs make a right. In any case in my view the government and indeed parliament are responsible for the wellbeing of the country so for the wellbeing of the UK there is only one course of action.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You really think there will be an extension?
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I think they'll only do it if a referendum is involved.

Hard to tell as certain voices are always more negative than others but I think we've exhausted their will on any other extension but perhaps they'll want to avoid no deal enough that they'll put up with our shit for a bit longer.
 
Smores said:
I think they'll only do it if a referendum is involved.

Hard to tell as certain voices are always more negative than others but I think we've exhausted their will on any other extension but perhaps they'll want to avoid no deal enough that they'll put up with our shit for a bit longer.
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Referendum plus a definite direction maybe. I'm not convinced all 27 would agree though.
You know what would happen if they gave a timetable for certain actions, parliament would pick the one that kicks the can the longest. I think they know their games by now.
 
Klopper76 said:
There’s more Remain support in here than Leave.

I haven’t seen a post put forward a convincing argument for Leave yet.
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I doubt there are many independent neutral observers, contributing to the discussion, who are willing to be convinced though.
 
Interesting watching the Bill going though the Lords today. Brexiter peers have submitted loads of amendments in an attempt to filibuster, which are being swiftly voted down by the majority (who are Remainers).

This will go on and on throughout the course of the day. This tactic was expected and it seems Remainer peers have made sure they can stay for as long as it takes.
 
Interesting how the same Leave supporting cnuts in parliament who hark on about democracy endlessly are quite happy to subvert it with arcane parliamentary procedure any time it suits.
 
The Firestarter said:
Why did you ask then ?
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I wanted to get a general feel for the Remain/Leave split at the time of, and prior to, the referendum against that which exists now, as the latter is likely to have been influenced by events since the referendum.
 
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Strachans Cigar said:
To be fair, it was the deciding one.
Point to abstinence all you like.
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Or we could point to any of the other 312 votes that were of equal importance. Kenneth Clarke cast the deciding vote. Caroline Lucas, representing twice as many voters as the entire DUP cast the deciding vote. John Mcdonnell legged it back from his MRI scan to cast the deciding vote.....
 
On a side note do you think the current state of politics inspires the young to look at it as a potential career path? Or the opposite?
 
Kinsella said:
I doubt there are many independent neutral observers, contributing to the discussion, who are willing to be convinced though.
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Honestly I have been waiting for 2 years, many conversations with leaver family members, heard every brexit politician. Yet not one has given me a genuine cohesive reason why leave would be beneficial without just straight out lying about things.
 
mancan92 said:
Honestly I have been waiting for 2 years, many conversations with leaver family members, heard every brexit politician. Yet not one has given me a genuine cohesive reason why leave would be beneficial without just straight out lying about things.
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Every rational leave voter I know has stated they would like to see a return of ascendency to British Courts, where they can't be overruled by European Courts. Personally I think it's a fair argument; it's not an economic argument but fair all the same, in my opinion.
 
That'sHernandez said:
Every rational leave voter I know has stated they would like to see a return of ascendency to British Courts, where they can't be overruled by European Courts. Personally I think it's a fair argument; it's not an economic argument but fair all the same, in my opinion.
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Yeah. People often say the leave vote had its roots in immigration concerns, but I think sovereignty of courts, judiciaries and lawmaking had a good deal to do with it.
 
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