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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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  • Poll closed .
golden_blunder said:
All the highly trained doctors, nurses and engineers that you lads don’t want, we will take them over here thanks
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There is such a thing as controlled immigration. Australia has pretty much a perfect system. If someone is highly skilled or the country needs people for certain industries they will be welcome with open arms.

One of the biggest issues with the EU’s free movement policy is there are far more benefits for an Eastern European to come to England, France or Germany than there is the other way round, mainly financial but also the standard of living. Even this year with all the uncertainty the net migration figures are still over 100,000. The infrastructure in this country can’t keep up with the growth in population. There is a lack of housing, schools, hospitals are always full, trains are overcrowded. Controlling immigration better would help with this situation.

But for some reason if you’re anti-immigration you must be xenophobic or racist. I’m not against immigration I just think an open door policy is a bit stupid, especially when it’s biased towards members of the EU whilst people from countries outside of the EU have to meet so many more criteria.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Yep. Waiting for the magical unicorn.
The UK are right back to pre-referendum but wasted two and a half years doing it.
Can't have Brexit if the Irish problem isn't resolved but if it is solved it's off the cliff.

On top of that no-one is happy. Continued uncertainty.

It seems that the vision of Brexit is Theresa May's personal vision of Brexit, sounds very democratic.

I would accuse her of being xenophobic but it could actually be worse than that, she just doesn't seem to like people, full stop.

Edit: Plus of course, the UK loses their representation and vote in March.
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Theresa May is certainly a strange person. I was feeling a modicum of sympathy for her last week and then she came out with her “queue jumping” line, completely disregarding the British people like me who have benefited from freedom of movement and of course completely ignoring the younger generation who will be denied those opportunities. But despite the fact she is the second worst PM of my lifetime (the shallow Old Etonian tosser who set off this sorry mess claiming first spot), she still seems more convincing than the overgrown student politician heading HM’s loyal opposition.
 
Josep Dowling said:
There is such a thing as controlled immigration. Australia has pretty much a perfect system. If someone is highly skilled or the country needs people for certain industries they will be welcome with open arms.

One of the biggest issues with the EU’s free movement policy is there are far more benefits for an Eastern European to come to England, France or Germany than there is the other way round, mainly financial but also the standard of living. Even this year with all the uncertainty the net migration figures are still over 100,000. The infrastructure in this country can’t keep up with the growth in population. There is a lack of housing, schools, hospitals are always full, trains are overcrowded. Controlling immigration better would help with this situation.

But for some reason if you’re anti-immigration you must be xenophobic or racist. I’m not against immigration I just think an open door policy is a bit stupid, especially when it’s biased towards members of the EU whilst people from countries outside of the EU have to meet so many more criteria.
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Incorrect - there is no open policy, the Uk don't apply the rules
EU net immigration is 87000 and non-EU is 235000

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

Furthermore citizens from EU8 -Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia are leaving the UK more than arriving.
 
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Josep Dowling said:
There is such a thing as controlled immigration. Australia has pretty much a perfect system. If someone is highly skilled or the country needs people for certain industries they will be welcome with open arms.

One of the biggest issues with the EU’s free movement policy is there are far more benefits for an Eastern European to come to England, France or Germany than there is the other way round, mainly financial but also the standard of living. Even this year with all the uncertainty the net migration figures are still over 100,000. The infrastructure in this country can’t keep up with the growth in population. There is a lack of housing, schools, hospitals are always full, trains are overcrowded. Controlling immigration better would help with this situation.

But for some reason if you’re anti-immigration you must be xenophobic or racist. I’m not against immigration I just think an open door policy is a bit stupid, especially when it’s biased towards members of the EU whilst people from countries outside of the EU have to meet so many more criteria.
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EU net migration up to March of this year was 87k. Non-EU migration was 235k.

You cannot simultaneously use the arguments that immigration is far too high and that non-EU migrants are unfairly treated by the system.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Incorrect - there is no open policy, the Uk don't apply the rules
EU net immigration is 87000 and non-EU is 235000

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics

Furthermore citizens from EU8 -Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia are leaving the UK more than arriving.
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All you have proved is net migration is much higher when you include non-EU migrants. Even with this supposed uncertainly causing people to rethink about coming to the UK.
 
Josep Dowling said:
All you have proved is net migration is much higher when you include non-EU migrants. Even with this supposed uncertainly causing people to rethink about coming to the UK.
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You said Eastern European, the majority of EU immigrants to the UK are from the EU15. What's the Uk doing about the massive increase in non-EU immigrants or don't they bother you?
 
Fully Fledged said:
It's even worse now you have to take out a mortgage to get from Birmingham to London on a peak time train. Even then unless you booked your seat it's standing room only.
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True... but equally the biggest cost is the funding for network rail as they are pretty busy upgrading the Victorian era network as British fail did nothing with it
article-2389918-1B425BCE000005DC-247_634x358.jpg
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You said Eastern European, the majority of EU immigrants to the UK are from the EU15. What's the Uk doing about the massive increase in non-EU immigrants or don't they bother you?
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Yes hence why I said we need a controlled migration policy. But clearly you didn’t read my first post.
 
Josep Dowling said:
Yes hence why I said we need a controlled migration policy. But clearly you didn’t read my first post.
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You mean you ignore all the points I made.
If an EU citizen is a burden on the UK, the UK can remove them. So why is it only the UK that has a problem with other EU citizens.
You've ignored the point you made about Eastern European immigrants and you said one of the biggest issues is the EU's freedom of movement policy, you said the EU immigration was more than 100,000 clearly you haven't read your own post.
 
sun_tzu said:
True... but equally the biggest cost is the funding for network rail as they are pretty busy upgrading the Victorian era network as British fail did nothing with it
article-2389918-1B425BCE000005DC-247_634x358.jpg
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3% profit? Is this data reliable? its hard to believe
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You mean you ignore all the points I made.
If an EU citizen is a burden on the UK, the UK can remove them. So why is it only the UK that has a problem with other EU citizens.
You've ignored the point you made about Eastern European immigrants and you said one of the biggest issues is the EU's freedom of movement policy, you said the EU immigration was more than 100,000 clearly you haven't read your own post.
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Yeah this is fairly basic stuff like. 87k is not 100k, address that Josep.
 
Tarrou said:
The logic is pretty easy to understand, but I will spell it out for you as you seem simple minded.

An inefficiently run rail network is cheaper for the public than an efficient but privately run network + profits + subsidies.
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:lol::lol::lol:

Neither of those options will ever happen in the UK. You can either have an inefficiently run rail network or a privately run inefficient rail network. Take your pick.
 
4bars said:
3% profit? Is this data reliable? its hard to believe
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https://fullfact.org/news/do-train-operating-companies-earn-massive-profits/
3.4% average dating back to 1997 according to full fact who are pretty reliable and impartial I believe

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Profits at the end of the day

Taking these subsidies into account, last year train operating companies enjoyed, between them, a margin of £305 million(3.4%). Analysis from KPMG shows margins similar to this going right back to 1997.
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Before Brexit the stats were quite evenly split with EU and non EU from around 300k+ net migration.

In 2004 we opened the door to Poland, in about 10-12 years we had nearly a million come here, that's pretty open policy. Before 2004 we had about 30-40k Polish for the entire century.

My concern though is the rate. The country struggles to cope with 300k net. We have housing shortages, blocked up roads and people driving miles to get their kid into a school. UK also has very small housing compared to other EU countries.

Sadly our already small houses are getting smaller. Instead of building semi detached with a garden and some privacy, you get planners trying to squeeze every ounce of land with shoe box homes and flats, flats on street corners. Near me we just had some green belt go for tiny houses and flats and a street corner where a pub used to be has some eyesore flats which are hard up to the footpath. I just wonder what the quality of life is like in these tiny homes and flats where there really shouldn't be any.

Second problem is all these people will want a car. The new estate on this former green belt spills out on to a main road that is bottlenecked to feck already and is near a junction of two other main roads and priority on the traffic lights is a real problem in the morning, evening and even during the day.

We should be making new areas or expanding outward on existing, not trying to shoehorn crummy places into a already built up area. You just look what councils are doing with small parcels of land in auctions. Soon a poxy semi will be some kind of luxury.

Also not known to some. People are splitting up nice semi detached homes built in the 1930s and 1960s for one family. I think the misery of those concrete jungle high rise flats of the 70s will happen again with so many people getting squashed together.
 
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4bars said:
Not a recommendable investment for the risk you take. You get less in the bank but you wont lose it. And any low risk investment will give you more surplus.

How is possible with the price of the fares that they get that low profit?
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Because fairs are regulated.... As you can see from the breakdown it's taken up with leasing trains... Operating costs but mostly repairing and maintaing the network which as it's so old and was massively underinvestment in for decades is basically held together with string and crossed fingers
 
sun_tzu said:
Because fairs are regulated.... As you can see from the breakdown it's taken up with leasing trains... Operating costs but mostly repairing and maintaing the network which as it's so old and was massively underinvestment in for decades is basically held together with string and crossed fingers
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So is not entirely private? Is not the companies that sets the fairs?
 
P-Nut0712 said:
:lol::lol::lol:

Neither of those options will ever happen in the UK. You can either have an inefficiently run rail network or a privately run inefficient rail network. Take your pick.
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Yeah I agree. I was using a hypothetical to demonstrate the logic as to why a less-efficient system could possibly be better, for the public, in some scenarios.

Not to suggest it would, or would not.
 
4bars said:
So is not entirely private? Is not the companies that sets the fairs?
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Probably not the thread for it but yes fairs are regulated... The large increase over recent years has been to fund infrastructure upgrades and maintenance... Largely because our network is old and in technical terms it's fecking shit
 
sun_tzu said:
Probably not the thread for it but yes fairs are regulated... The large increase over recent years has been to fund infrastructure upgrades and maintenance... Largely because our network is old and in technical terms it's fecking shit
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SOrry, you are right. Not the thread. Thanks for the explanations though
 
I haven't followed the news for a few days and I'm not really clever enough to make sense of a lot of it anyway, so I'll ask one of you kind lot to sum it up for me: are we any closer to May leaving/stopping this whole thing?

Thanks for any replies
 
2 man midfield said:
I haven't followed the news for a few days and I'm not really clever enough to make sense of a lot of it anyway, so I'll ask one of you kind lot to sum it up for me: are we any closer to May leaving/stopping this whole thing?

Thanks for any replies
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Well, we've spent the last few days arguing about communism and rail privatisation to be honest.
 
2 man midfield said:
I haven't followed the news for a few days and I'm not really clever enough to make sense of a lot of it anyway, so I'll ask one of you kind lot to sum it up for me: are we any closer to May leaving/stopping this whole thing?

Thanks for any replies
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the first vote on the deal is still like 3 weeks away, we'll find out then
 
I think the past 4 years will go down as one of the most mismanaged periods of British political history.

What an absolute shambles.

Brexit should NOT happen. What a shame...
 
SteveJ said:
Study shows 60% of Britons believe in conspiracy theories

Leavers more likely to doubt immigration figures and think there is a plot to make Muslims the majority in UK:

https://www.theguardian.com/society...-60-of-britons-believe-in-conspiracy-theories
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They completely believe that we had no say at all in the EU and it's solely down to Merkel and Macron.

That's why they're stung when we pay in what we pay because they think we don't contribute despite writing most of the common law.
 
Josep Dowling said:
There is such a thing as controlled immigration. Australia has pretty much a perfect system. If someone is highly skilled or the country needs people for certain industries they will be welcome with open arms.
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:lol: We put genuine refugees in third world gulags for indefinite periods. We propose cutting migration when we need to increase it and we have a massive shortage of workers to do jobs at the more menial end of the spectrum due to our immigration policy. Perfect my arse.

But for some reason if you’re anti-immigration you must be xenophobic or racist. I’m not against immigration I just think an open door policy is a bit stupid, especially when it’s biased towards members of the EU whilst people from countries outside of the EU have to meet so many more criteria.
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Yet migration from non-EU countries is 3 times that from EU countries and if we could be bothered to apply the rules we could make sure EU migrants go home when not employed. So it sounds like you are buying in to what is in fact xenophobic propaganda.
 
Tarrou said:
What is it about Corbyn that scares you that much?

I must admit I find him quite frustrating at times, but when I looked at his policies at he last general they all seem rather sensible, and I could not say with any confidence he'd be better or worse than having May/Tories at the helm. Certainly there is nothing I've seen that suggests having him as PM would be worse than a no deal Brexit, which will surely be catastrophic.
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Nothing could be worse than the shower of shit presently in government.
 
4bars said:
3% profit? Is this data reliable? its hard to believe
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It's about right for Network Rail but they are a quasi governmental appointed entity that manage the rail infrastructure. The profiteers are in the rail operators but as Sun Tzu says, even they are regulated.

Network Rail do a solid job on a piss poor budget so their much needed upgrading of the Victorian Rail network is "getting there" but still at the sort of pace BR manage. Lest we forget, the precursor to Network Rail was the fully private Rail Track and I would have praised them for making similar much needed if slow progress on an impossible task with a ludicrously small budget yet they were allowed to go bankrupt as the government continued to stael back their budget with fines for delays that were beyond their control.

It doesn't matter if it's privatised, semi private or nationalised. When we refuse to spend the amount needed to even maintain the status quo on our dilapidated infrastructure how can we be surprised that the service gets progressively worse.
 
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