Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
berbatrick said:
The killer was that literally everyone above 65 turned out. Amazing.
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The tories have a long standing system of hiring buses and vans on election days and going to every retirement home to take the crusty old fecks to the polls. It's harder to do with under 65s since they haven't been stacked in giant buildings yet. The pensioner vote is well easy to get out, their families have basically abandoned them in these sterile shitholes and don't really have the time to visit them everyday. Then these charlatans come along promising the good old days and give a little trip every few years.

If you tried this with generally left leaning voters, say going to student halls to bus them to the polls it doesn't have the same effects because most younger people can make the short trip themselves, aren't always in and aren't lonely enough to be taken with anyone who gives them attention for 2 minutes.
 
Silva said:
The tories have a long standing system of hiring buses and vans on election days and going to every retirement home to take the crusty old fecks to the polls. It's harder to do with under 65s since they haven't been stacked in giant buildings yet. The pensioner vote is well easy to get out, their families have basically abandoned them in these sterile shitholes and don't really have the time to visit them everyday. Then these charlatans come along promising the good old days and give a little trip every few years.

If you tried this with generally left leaning voters, say going to student halls to bus them to the polls it doesn't have the same effects because most younger people can make the short trip themselves, aren't always in and aren't lonely enough to be taken with anyone who gives them attention for 2 minutes.
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If that's true, then for many (perhaps most) of those who still have their wits about them in these 'sterile shit-holes' Brexit may just be a nice little bit of revenge.
 
berbatrick said:
Edit - the class numbers are making me skeptical. Everyone aside from the rich (AB) voted Brexit, and C2DE voted for leave in overwhelming numbers (64-36). I find it hard to believe you'd reach a relatively close final figure of 52-48 with that makeup.
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different source, turnout is from an LSE commissioned poll, class is from an Ashcroft commissioned poll

but yeah I see what you mean AB was 27% of the UK in 26 and C2DE was 45% in 2016

it's worth ignoring Ashcroft altogether tbh, he's a Tory propagandist and his poll results came out almost immediately, the LSE turnout one took a while hence everyone assuming the turnout for younger people was low
 
@berbatrick, I posted this earlier in the thread, it's the "official" version. 64% of voters who were over 65 voted leave.

vote1b.png

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
 
Kinsella said:
If that's true, then for many (perhaps most) of those who still have their wits about them in these 'sterile shit-holes' Brexit may just be a nice little bit of revenge.
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Cutting off the nose to spite the face kind of revenge. Seems adolescence spills into retirement age.
 
it's no surprise that older voters are more conservative, as per just about any country (happened for the marriage and abortion referendums here in Ireland too). I think the more alarming thing in that list is how many voted to leave based on their education level. Clearly the leave campaign did a much better job at getting to them than the remain campaign did.
 
Massive Spanner said:
it's no surprise that older voters are more conservative, as per just about any country (happened for the marriage and abortion referendums here in Ireland too). I think the more alarming thing in that list is how many voted to leave based on their education level. Clearly the leave campaign did a much better job at getting to them than the remain campaign did.
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I don't know about the remain campaign but a lot of remain supporters went around calling them stupid. OK its not a lie in most cases but people don't like to be labelled as such. Remain supporters aren't part of the remain campaign but in the minds of leavers they are guilty by association. Leave did a better job of appealing to them. Also I've heard the remain campaign failed to galvanise support in the less well of cities/towns because they didn't step foot there.
 
horsechoker said:
I don't know about the remain campaign but a lot of remain supporters went around calling them stupid. OK its not a lie in most cases but people don't like to be labelled as such. Remain supporters aren't part of the remain campaign but in the minds of leavers they are guilty by association. Leave did a better job of appealing to them. Also I've heard the remain campaign failed to galvanise support in the less well of cities/towns because they didn't step foot there.
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Yeah I think it's pretty obvious now that the remain campaign were lazy, cocky, and lackadaisical because they always thought they'd win, going by opinion polls and "surely people won't be this stupid!".
 
Kinsella said:
What's the general Brexit sentiment on redcafe then?

I assuming there was poll at some point.
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Here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eu-referendum-uk-residents-vote-today.404633/

Prior to the vote:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?
Yes: 482 vote(s) 73.8%
No: 171 vote(s) 26.2%

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eu-referendum-results-thread-leave-have-won-cameron-resigns.418893/

After the vote:
How did you vote to this: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?
Remain a member of the European Union: 321 vote(s) 75.5%
Leave the European Union: 80 vote(s) 18.8%
Spoiled ballot: 24 vote(s) 5.6%

As you can see from that as well as the 2015 and 2017 GE threads, the caf is generally left leaning and not indicative of what the general public think.
 
Damien said:
As you can see from that as well as the 2015 and 2017 GE threads, the caf is generally left leaning and not indicative of what the general public think.
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I find most internet forums are.

Generally because they tend to have a quite young, well informed, and educated demographic, for the most part, discounting Billy. So it actually lines up pretty well with the voting percentages in that chart above I'd say.

They're certainly not a good benchmark to set for this stuff!
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I get the impression that the only thing that matters in the UK is Tories vs Labour. Nothing else matters as long as your pet politician is not criticised.
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You're right Paul. Labour voters were 65% remain in the referendum, more remain than Northern Ireland and even more remain than the deeply EUrophilic Scots. The Labour membership is overwhelmingly in favour of a second referendum yet Corbyn can somehow legitimately appease his racist base and pursue Brexit whilst playing his part in depriving the electorate of a second referendum.

How is this possible? Because the hard left Labour party identity, which in no small part, includes hating the Tories and the Blairites - trumps everything.
 
Kinsella said:
I was referring to the general Remain v Leave split, but no matter.

And as nice as the Caf sentiment is I struggle to see what people can learn from it given that it's not reflective of the general population.
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Why did you ask then ?
 
On ITV’s Peston show last night Philip Hammond, the chancellor, did his best to slam the idea back on the table. Arguing that MPs should get a vote on the proposition, he told the programme:

I’ve said it’s a perfectly credible proposition. Some ideas have been put forward which are not deliverable, they are not negotiable but the confirmatory referendum idea, many people will disagree with it, I’m not sure there is a majority in parliament for it but it’s a perfectly credible proposition and it deserves to be tested in parliament.

But his morning, on the Today programme, Matt Hancock, the health secretary, did his best to sweep the proposal back into oblivion. Asked what he thought about a second referendum, he said:

I don’t see how that helps. That isn’t about delivering Brexit ... I have argued many, many times that it would be divisive, it would not be decisive, it doesn’t help us leave the European Union before the European elections, so I am very, very strongly against it ...

The point here is to respect the result of the referendum, not to challenge the result of the referendum in another referendum.

Then, when it was put to him that Hammond had described the idea as “credible”, Hancock responded:

Well that’s certainly not how I would describe it. But all of use are having to find compromises, and that is hard.
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Hancock voted remain btw.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I find most internet forums are.

Generally because they tend to have a quite young, well informed, and educated demographic, for the most part, discounting Billy. So it actually lines up pretty well with the voting percentages in that chart above I'd say.

They're certainly not a good benchmark to set for this stuff!
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I remember there was an interesting divide with here and RAWK being Remain heavy while the likes of West Ham forums (and Leeds I think - they required signing up to to view the General in most cases and I wasn't going to do that) were mostly pro-Leave.
 
horsechoker said:
Hancock voted remain btw.
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Like a load of those stupid feckers who understood exactly how destructive Leave would be during the referendum yet have managed to convince themselves over the last 3 years that somehow asking the public if they're sure would somehow be the worst thing that had ever happened to Britain.

It's amazing how much of a fecking echo chamber the Houses of Parliament can be sometimes. As can internet forums of course, but then again we're not the ones passing legislation to make this shitshow actually happen.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
If not Parliament is going to be left with the decision of no deal or revoke
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In reality this has always been the position from the day after the referendum.

Whilst we are still members, the EU has never been in the position to, or have been willing to, give us a 'deal' which we could accept. We have to leave in order to be in a position to negotiate freely, or to revoke A50 and stay, anything else is a nonsense.

MP's should either vote with their conscience, or vote the way their constituents voted. This issue goes beyond party politics, or should do.
 
JPRouve said:
I assume that it depends on countries but you have no right to work in France until you have a carte de séjour salarié/travailleur or a resident card. EU citizens don't need it and simply have the right to work.
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They may have the right to 'Look for work' without needing a permit but anyhow, I have the right to look for work anywhere in the world, whether I find work or not is irrelevant. I can pretty much guarantee that a better candidate outside the eu will be chosen by any company over a lesser qualified eu member. That's just the way things are.

As Weaste once said "Nobody has the right to work"
 
Steven Seagull said:
David Davis has a masters in business.
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So do i, definitely doesn't qualify me to understand Brexit.

He might be capable of learning but the idiot part is talking with a sense of expertise on matters you're not educated in or have little experience on. That covers a lot of the ERG
 
Damien said:
Here: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eu-referendum-uk-residents-vote-today.404633/

Prior to the vote:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU?
Yes: 482 vote(s) 73.8%
No: 171 vote(s) 26.2%

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/eu-referendum-results-thread-leave-have-won-cameron-resigns.418893/

After the vote:
How did you vote to this: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?
Remain a member of the European Union: 321 vote(s) 75.5%
Leave the European Union: 80 vote(s) 18.8%
Spoiled ballot: 24 vote(s) 5.6%

As you can see from that as well as the 2015 and 2017 GE threads, the caf is generally left leaning and not indicative of what the general public think.
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Cheers Damien.
 
Fiona Onasanya seems to be very popular again today after casting her vote last night for that majority of 1.
 
berbatrick said:
I was astounded at the 90% turnout among older voters.
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Yes, they may have less qualifications, but more sense to actually go and vote for something they want and that they take an interest in.

Its really not surprising these figures show the age/intention to vote and qualification differences; young people generally (any period) take less interest in politics and the older generation, certainly 60+ would not have had the opportunities for HE academic achievement that has been afforded to later generations. Mostly the 16+ FE provision expanded in the sixties (Harold Wilson's the 'white heat of technology') was vocational rather than academic.

And as one of my older friends(yes older than me) says "they are giving away degrees with cornflake packet tops these days". He has a full set of Bachelor, Masters and Doctorate degrees, so I don't argue with him.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I find most internet forums are.

Generally because they tend to have a quite young, well informed, and educated demographic, for the most part, discounting Billy. So it actually lines up pretty well with the voting percentages in that chart above I'd say.
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That has been my experience too, although I'd dispute the well informed claim.

I think another, rather more obvious reason for this left leaning tendency is that those who contribute most frequently to such discussions tend to be people who invest a lot of emotional energy and time into politics, which is in itself much more a left wing trait.

Massive Spanner said:
They're certainly not a good benchmark to set for this stuff!
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Indeed.
 
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Smores said:
So do i, definitely doesn't qualify me to understand Brexit.

He might be capable of learning but the idiot part is talking with a sense of expertise on matters you're not educated in or have little experience on. That covers a lot of the ERG
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Depends how you look at it. You are correct in that they ostensibly displayed extremely shallow knowledge of international trade and the European Union.

But if you look at the case of Davies, he received a large consultancy fee from JCB, a company owned by a prominent Brexiteer and another large consultancy fee from another company (I can't remember which).

If you look at Rees-Mogg, he's a co-founder of Sommerset Capital Management. A company that opened a fund in Ireland in reaction to Brexit and that warned its investors of the economic damage Brexit could cause.

I'd say in the case of the former, he's just a politician of the most cynical type, looking to feather his own nest financially and in terms of his career. In the case of the latter I think Brexit is an ideological position for him but he's economically Brexit-proof in the extreme and maneuvering without any empathy for those that are not. Typical Tories you might say but I don't think they're stupid.
 
VeevaVee said:
Didn't account for the thickies, short sightedness, the amount of bitterness, and widespread small town racism/nationalism.
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of course not, i don't think many people back in 2015 would've expected it to be close, let alone leave to win.

what I do find interesting in that thread is that a lot of people seemed to think the referendum way a good idea in order to "put the EU issue to bed" and whatnot. I guess it's only after the result came out that everyone decided Cameron was an idiot.
 
When it turned out that was literally no plan at all for if leave won, then that was a pretty good clue as to his competence!
 
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