Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Rooney24 said:
It would effectively be dead in my opinion in the event of a no deal.
Click to expand...

Sadly i agree.

It got me wondering though....as part of the GFA the ROI gave up articles 2 & 3, their constitutional claim to NI. I doubt it and wouldnt see it happening but I would wonder if there is an argument to insert them back into the constitution?

Probably not and it would rock the boat too much but there may be an element of people who might think if the GFA is dead we gave up that claim for nothing.
Click to expand...

I doubt there would be any appetite for reinstating articles 2 and 3, but you're right Ireland would have made that concession ultimately for nothing.
 
I've taken next week off work to bask in the glory of Brexit. I can't wait for the rush of dopamine as the shackles come off and the feeling of taking back control takes over. Let's get on with it! white text
 
balaks said:
DUP have always wanted a no deal despite what they might have said. They are right wing fundamentalists who sit well with the ERG crowd.
Click to expand...
But why? Why is No Deal good for a Northern Irish unionist party? Isn't it a dangerous policy, considering that Northern Ireland voted Remain. Aren't they afraid that their hardline No Deal stance will increase the popularity of the concept of a united Ireland?
 
MadMike said:
I've taken next week off work to bask in the glory of Brexit. I can't wait for the rush of dopamine as the shackles come off and the feeling of taking back control takes over. Let's get on with it! white text
Click to expand...

I too cannot wait for these morons to have even more control white text
 
Siorac said:
But why? Why is No Deal good for a Northern Irish unionist party? Isn't it a dangerous policy, considering that Northern Ireland voted Remain. Aren't they afraid that their hardline No Deal stance will increase the popularity of the concept of a united Ireland?
Click to expand...

Probably because they think they are shackled by the EU’s horrendous Human Rights laws and progressive protectionism of its citizens.

The sooner they are out of EU control they can start bringing back their draconian practices.
 
Siorac said:
But why? Why is No Deal good for a Northern Irish unionist party? Isn't it a dangerous policy, considering that Northern Ireland voted Remain. Aren't they afraid that their hardline No Deal stance will increase the popularity of the concept of a united Ireland?
Click to expand...
They know that the unionist community will still come out for them again and again through fear of the other side more than any of their own policies or work.
 
Let's not forget the most signed petition in history that already got us nowhere...

#1 EU Referendum rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum.

What was the petition arguing?

"We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum."

Leave voter Oliver Healey claimed to have set up the petition before last year's June referendum - fearing a narrow Remain victory - before it became a de facto protest petition by Remain supporters once the 52-48 majority vote for Brexit was confirmed.

How many people signed it?

4,150,260.

Did it result in action?

The topic was debated on 5 September 2016 before the Government confirmed it would not be pursuing a second referendum.

"The European Union Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015, receiving overwhelming support from Parliament. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout," the Foreign Office said.
Click to expand...

https://www.itv.com/news/2017-01-31...e-10-most-signed-and-what-have-they-achieved/
 
Isn't May correct though? Everybody is playing party politics here that has ground the process down to a halt.
Your parliament has very little comeback to that in my opinion.
 
cyberman said:
Isn't May correct though? Everybody is playing party politics here that has ground the process down to a halt.
Your parliament has very little comeback to that in my opinion.
Click to expand...
She's the biggest culprit.
 
The only thing the petition does is to help raise awareness in some small way of the possibility of revoking article 50 and undermines the notion that that choice does not enjoy any public support. Stuff such as "petition breaks government site" and "petition gathers million signatures in a day" is at the very least a positive news story.
 
cyberman said:
Isn't May correct though? Everybody is playing party politics here that has ground the process down to a halt.
Your parliament has very little comeback to that in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Can't think of many examples outside of May herself. Can you?
 
cyberman said:
Isn't May correct though? Everybody is playing party politics here that has ground the process down to a halt.
Your parliament has very little comeback to that in my opinion.
Click to expand...
No. She has stuck to her 5 red lines that have meant a confrontational negotiation with the EU that ended with a poor WA. She has then brought that back to Parliament and not been prepared to move on it no matter how badly it gets voted down or how many times.
 
Imagine the scene, five minutes to 11,00pm on 29th March 2019, the runaway train called 'No deal' heads down the tracks straight towards the buffers, no brakes, no way to switch the tracks, all points locked in place...

A cry goes out, "oh dear where is superman when you want him? Oh wait... no it's ok the Maybot and station master Tusk have taken charge, they are removing the buffers, taking them away and adding an extension to the track... phew that was close!

What do you say? Wait, oh no they've now replaced the buffers on the track further down, why, have they done that...? What because some idiot wants to hold an election, don't they know we are heading for a catastrophe …. wait another message coming through, it only happens if 27 other fat controllers can agree.

What's that re-nationalize the railways?"
 
Last edited:
cyberman said:
Isn't May correct though? Everybody is playing party politics here that has ground the process down to a halt.
Your parliament has very little comeback to that in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I don’t sympathise for May at all, but I do acknowledge that she is in a no-win situation. Pretty much every other parliamentarian knows that they probably couldn’t come up with anything different to what May has - so rather than try to take some control and responsibility, they would rather just keep her as the scapegoat because they know they can’t do any better themselves. This is why they voted against indicative votes and have voted against every other idea brought forward.

May is not guiltless and I have no sympathy, but she is not the only culprit by a country mile.
 
Walrus said:
I don’t sympathise for May at all, but I do acknowledge that she is in a no-win situation. Pretty much every other parliamentarian knows that they probably couldn’t come up with anything different to what May has - so rather than try to take some control and responsibility, they would rather just keep her as the scapegoat because they know they can’t do any better themselves. This is why they voted against indicative votes and have voted against every other idea brought forward.

May is not guiltless and I have no sympathy, but she is not the only culprit by a country mile.
Click to expand...
I agree with elements of this, but had she attempted to co-operate from the very start rather than immediately create a series of red lines that only a section of parliament agreed with and then pursued that for two years without listening to anyone not in her own party despite an incredibly narrow margin of victory for leave. It was the time for diplomacy and not entrenchment on a unilateral position.
 
Fingeredmouse said:
I agree with elements of this, but had she attempted to co-operate from the very start rather than immediately create a series of red lines that only a section of parliament agreed with and then pursued that for two years without listening to anyone not in her own party despite an incredibly narrow margin of victory for leave. It was the time for diplomacy and not entrenchment on a unilateral position.
Click to expand...

Can’t disagree with any of that.
 
cyberman said:
Isn't May correct though? Everybody is playing party politics here that has ground the process down to a halt.
Your parliament has very little comeback to that in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Wait a minute... are you saying that May has not been playing party politics all along?

That she didn't waste time by calling for a snap election merely to consolidate her position (which back fired)? That she didn't give in to all the ERG red lines post-Chequers to try and keep her party together and herself in power above all? That she didn't willingly exclude all opposition parties from the negotiating process, even though she knew her party didn't even have an outright majority in parliament and would struggle to unilaterally pass an agreement through?

This isn't on her? We imagined all of this?
 
MadMike said:
Wait a minute... are you saying that May has not been playing party politics all along? That she didn't waste time by calling for a snap election merely to consolidate her position (which back fired)? That she didn't give in to all the ERG red lines post-Chequers to try and keep her party together and herself in power above all? That she didn't willingly exclude all opposition parties from the negotiating process, even though she knew her party didn't even have an outright majority in parliament and would struggle to unilaterally pass an agreement through?

This isn't on her? We imagined all of this?
Click to expand...

It appears revising the present is the new revising history. It's all Corbyn's fault.
 
MadMike said:
Wait a minute... are you saying that May has not been playing party politics all along?

That she didn't waste time by calling for a snap election merely to consolidate her position (which back fired)? That she didn't give in to all the ERG red lines post-Chequers to try and keep her party together and herself in power above all? That she didn't willingly exclude all opposition parties from the negotiating process, even though she knew her party didn't even have an outright majority in parliament and would struggle to unilaterally pass an agreement through?

This isn't on her? We imagined all of this?
Click to expand...
But she had the impossible task from the start. I'm not saying she's blameless but when you have th DUP positioning themselves for a no deal, the ERG within her own party praying for the same outcome with a Labour leader who would want to see the same outcome then what more can she do? Britains negotiations were hobbled from the get go, it was known as a poisoned chalice for a reason.
They send her off with unicorn demands to Brussels then string her up when she can't get them. The time to come together to map out a Brexit deal was months ago, never mind today yet here we are. Politicians positioning themselves on the titanic for the post Brexit elections.
She didn't really say anything different from what most level headed folk has said for almost years now.
If she were Scholes she'd be getting praised for her comments!
 
balaks said:
He certainly hasn't helped the situation.
Click to expand...
You're right. He should have gotten the DUP and ERG in order, and got his Tory whips to back his deal and control his own party. He should have negotiated with the EU earlier.

Oh wait,
 
cyberman said:
But she had the impossible task from the start. I'm not saying she's blameless but when you have th DUP positioning themselves for a no deal, the ERG within her own party praying for the same outcome with a Labour leader who would want to see the same outcome then what more can she do? Britains negotiations were hobbled from the get go, it was known as a poisoned chalice for a reason.
They send her off with unicorn demands to Brussels then string her up when she can't get them. The time to come together to map out a Brexit deal was months ago, never mind today yet here we are. Politicians positioning themselves on the titanic for the post Brexit elections.
She didn't really say anything different from what most level headed folk has said for almost years now.
If she were Scholes she'd be getting praised for her comments!
Click to expand...

But she chose to get into bed with the DUP. And the reason she chose to do that is because she chose to call for an early election. For which she chose to not campaign for and ended up in a worse position than the one she started in.

Her job was very hard from the start but she made it impossible, by compounding mistake upon mistake. Not blameless? She has the highest portion of blame of all. 0 fecking sympathy for her
 
balaks said:
He certainly hasn't helped the situation.
Click to expand...

I agree he hasn't. I hold Corbyn responsible for the two below failures...

1) Even though a 2/3rds majority of his party's voters are pro-Remain he failed to represent them by not adopting a pro-Remain stance. As a result 48% of the country's voters ended up with no representation in parliament among the two biggest parties. They ended up represented only by the Libs and the SNP.

2) He provided inefficient opposition by dragging Labour into scandals, failing to articulate what his plans were and failing to consolidate and control his party (TIG example in case). Labour have lost more MPs than the Tories since the parliament formed in 2017. Despite not being subjected to anywhere near the same pressure as the Tories.

He might be feckless, but this still not primarily his fault.
 
Last edited:
Adebesi said:
Second highest. Surely Cameron carries the largest burden of the blame.
Click to expand...
Cameron made one major feck up, a truly god awful one, but May has had almost three years of awful decision after awful decision. I think she's worse. She has basically steered the UK to a no-deal Brexit through her constant incompetence.
 
MadMike said:
I agree he hasn't. I hold Corbyn responsible for the two below failures...

1) Even though a 2/3rds majority of his party's voters are pro-Remain he failed to represent them by adopting a pro-Remain stance. As a result 48% of the country's voters ended up with no representation in parliament among the two biggest parties. They ended up represented only by the Libs and the SNP.

2) He provided inefficient opposition by dragging Labour into scandals, failing to articulate what his plans were and failing to consolidate and control his party (TIG example in case). Labour have lost more MPs than the Tories since the parliament formed in 2017. Despite not being subjected to anywhere near the same pressure as the Tories.

He might be feckless, but this still not primarily his fault.
Click to expand...
We should have had a Tory government led by a Leaver and a Labour opposition led by a Remainer, and we got the opposite. Members of both parties, and their MPs, should take most of the blame for that.
 
Adebesi said:
Second highest. Surely Cameron carries the largest burden of the blame.
Click to expand...

Perhaps. Debatable. He made a massive mistake by calling the referendum, especially at the time that he did, but that was his only mistake. It's between one of those two. May has made way more mistakes even if no one was as big individually as calling for the referendum.

He campaigned vigorously for Remain as being best for Britain and he rightly stepped down after losing the vote, as he couldn't lead after opting for the losing side. He also thought he would win and hit 2 birds with one stone by fending off UKIP and his backbenchers as well as kicking this can 20-30 years down the road.
 
711 said:
We should have had a Tory government led by a Leaver and a Labour opposition led by a Remainer, and we got the opposite. Members of both parties, and their MPs, should take most of the blame for that.
Click to expand...
Stop acting like that voters didn't have a role to play here.
 
Massive Spanner said:
Cameron made one major feck up, a truly god awful one, but May has had almost three years of awful decision after awful decision. I think she's worse. She has basically steered the UK to a no-deal Brexit through her constant incompetence.
Click to expand...
What is the one major mistake?

Calling a referendum in the first place was a mistake.
The handling of the campaign was utterly inept, so that is a second.
Absolutely no planning whatsoever about what happens if they lose, that's a third.

Even May's harshest critics agree she was in an unwinnable situation by the time this shitshow landed in her lap. Cameron has no such excuse.
 
MadMike said:
Perhaps. Debatable. He made a massive mistake by calling the referendum, especially at the time that he did, but that was his only mistake. It's between one of those two. May has made way more mistakes even if no one was as big individually as calling for the referendum.

He campaigned vigorously for Remain as being best for Britain and he rightly stepped down after losing the vote, as he couldn't lead after opting for the losing side. He also thought he would win and hit 2 birds with one stone by fending off UKIP and his backbenchers as well as kicking this can 20-30 years down the road.
Click to expand...

His biggest of big mistakes wasn't the calling of the referendum. It was the complete and total failure to carry out any form of planning and risk assessment.

Even he should know the maxim - don't ask a question if you don't know what to do with the answer.
 
MadMike said:
Perhaps. Debatable. He made a massive mistake by calling the referendum, especially at the time that he did, but that was his only mistake. It's between one of those two. May has made way more mistakes even if no one was as big individually as calling for the referendum.

He campaigned vigorously for Remain as being best for Britain and he rightly stepped down after losing the vote, as he couldn't lead after opting for the losing side. He also thought he would win and hit 2 birds with one stone by fending off UKIP and his backbenchers as well as kicking this can 20-30 years down the road.
Click to expand...

Aye his Tory government was just brilliant aside from that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.