In what way do you think greenwood has been discarded to the trash heap?
Mason Greenwood, Marseille Footballer | Read the thread rules in the OP before posting
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
For me now, the main interest is if he can do well enough to get a bigger move since we still have the 50% sell on clause - much needed funds for PSR and all that
Problem with these sell on clauses though is that it only makes sense for Marseille if its a really huge price
That's the extremist POV that I take issue with, as a person he would appear abhorrent, that's been discussed and when I come to comment on a good performance it's out of pure football curiosity and genuine interest over a player who used to play for us but it seems I need to include a disclaimer per post saying "Just to reassure the masses I do not condone his actions, he is an awful person", I don't think anybody disagrees with that but the minute you post that he played well and that we could receive funds if he does get a future transfer you are hailed by storms of "You need to remember he's an awful person" or "Where were you when he played poorly?".
By me saying he had a good game it does not reverse any feelings I have on what he did but that's been discussed and I don't think anybody is forgetting it, I don't think it will ever be right for him to return and I'm also unlikely to notice a poor performance as I don't follow him around but when a former United player plays well you don't have to look hard for the sensationalist headlines, would it be easier if I did include a disclaimer on each post to save those that feel the need to remind me what I already know?
Huh? He's been (rightfully so) blacklisted from playing in his country and for his national team because he's a woman abuser
Tyson wasn't welcomed back by society because he repented
He was welcomed back because he's fecking Mike Tyson
Greenwood is is essentially a nobody and will remain on the trash heap at least in the view of the British public
I am amazed this thread is still going.
But if that is true, why would you not comment when he plays badly enough for a long enough time that even his manager publicly talked about it? Rather mysteriously, that wasn't deemed "noteworthy" enough by the people that seem to be hell-bent on discussing his performances.
If he keeps up this record he likely will get a big move, the question is where though and for how much. I think the UK is likely out of the equation, I could see maybe an Atletico Madrid, possibly Juventus. Come end of the season, for good or bad it would have been another season gone by and likely the outrage of him going to an Atletico for example wouldn't be as high as if he went last summer. If he's Marseille's player of the season, 30+ goals and assists and his asking price isn't astronomical there will definitely be big teams in for him. However, if he has an okay to good season I don't think bigger teams would take the risk to buy him tbh.
If I had seen it at the time, I would have commented but by that time it was after I commented a few times he played well and was chased out with pitchforks so I haven't since commented on his performance through fear of not wanting to offend people, had I noticed it though and said "That's concerning, hopefully he plays better and gets a move and we get money as a result", I would have been labelled an apologist then also.
It wasn't when he had a run of bad form that lasted 4 matchdays. It got going again when the gushfest restarted after a goal against the bottom team in the league.
With you in particular, the replies you receive might be party because you were one of the people most in favor of Greenwood, and the reason you changed your mind about his return had nothing to do with you thinking he did anything wrong, but because you thought the backlash and reaction from other people would make it a net negative for United and Greenwood himself.
I also remember you calling the posters defending Greenwood both oppressed and cancelled, and saying that you don't care about anything off the field unless it leads to a conviction, and that you can't judge what he did, so at least a one time disclaimer would be helpful because it would tell people that you seemingly have done yet another 180. (More likely though, it's just a rhetorical device you're using to make your main point, that you want to talk about Greenwood when he scores goals without people talking about what he does when he fails to score at home.)
I'm sure if the performance talk were more balanced and not just a cheap excuse to fawn over him when he does well there'd be far less pushback. That's not the case though.
Also, some users are constantly complaining about some of the language used by the people who despise MG ("apologists" and whatnot), and maybe some of it is bit OTT, but I'm not sure "pitchforks", "fear", "offend people", etc help with the general animosity. All this playing the victim about getting some unkind replies on a football forum on a topic that has underlying DV and rape themes is a bit pathetic, tbh.
I was initially in favor of him returning and perhaps didn't really consider the severity of his reactions but did change my stance because it wasn't best for the player or the club, I don't want to go over old ground here but I am very "Convicted or not" as that is the law of the land but I appreciate others feel differently so not hear to debate that.
I never said they were "Oppressed or cancelled" but I do believe they should be allowed their opinion whether I disagree with it or not, I didn't like how it felt like everyone attacked them for disagreeing with their opinion however in regards to a one time disclaimer you mention, I have said previously but happy to repeat, what he appears to have done is quite frankly disgusting and has no excuse, that's not for me to decide if there are remediation steps but I also wouldn't use the "She seems OK" argument to defend him for reasons that have been made clear previously. I've not done a 180 at all but perhaps have been naive in just wanting to focus on the football and have been forced to accept that the feelings around him are too strong but I do believe it would have been better for all involved if he had been convicted, repented and we could move on.
Well to give a balanced view I think he's playing well in a sub par league and in hindsight wouldn't be an improve on any of our attackers (Bar Antony whom I have lost any faith with), I don't think he will ever reach the potential he once showed due to his actions and the only think I feel is frustration for the club at having to let go over an asset at an undervalued price due to the actions of that asset which is pretty much how I view players of the club but he'll no doubt have poor performances yet as it's still early on and I'll have that chance to comment
He's playing in a top league and earning more money than most of us could dream of doing it. I just struggle with that being a trash heap. Agree that he's been blacklisted (quite rightly) by most here though.
I usually trust my memory about things I read, but figured I'd double check.
From here, emphasis mine.
Fair point, poor choice of words on my part then, "Marginalized" would be more appropriate but anyway I don't want to keep bumping the thread to the top and create a bigger spin, point is agree what he did was wrong and will give a more balanced view on his performances when he inevitably goes through a poor performance.
Marginalized is almost as funny as oppressed, for what it's worth. Especially combined with that other poster just bringing up Prohibition as a parallell. We really are dealing with a powerless minority's struggle against the pressing boot of Big Society here!
So just post about his football and don’t engage with everything else. It’s simple.
That’s a bit disingenuous. He was sentenced to six years in prison. Which was the crux of my point. There was accountability, even if society had to impose a punishment to start that process.
I really don't get this fawning over him argument and request for more balanced discussions. The thread gets bumped when he plays well, its no different to the wellbeck thread. You aren't in the wellbeck thread questioning when he isn't really scoring or doing anything of note why there isn't a balanced discussion on his performance. Thread gets bumped when he scores, its how it goes. There is a lot of tying yourselves in knots with some of these reasonings. The majority of posters commenting on his performances are doing so in a manner no different to other non-united players who are putting in good performances. It makes the playing victim point disingenuous as that is effectively what is being done when complaining that people are discussing him when he puts in good performances. You are completely free to discuss his personal issues without acting like the majority of discussions of his performances is that different to other non-united player threads.
Does anyone believe that this would have been the case if United had kept him and reintegrated him?
I dont but curious if anyone still thinks that way?
The Welbeck thread doesn't have people claiming they use it to follow his career and analyze his performances. This is the only one who has those sort of people, so it's the only one where it makes sense to ask why you're not doing what you said you were going to.
Is there a buy back clause?
Thats is pretty much what a player thread is for, to follow their career and analyze their performances.
No, it's not. It's to talk about the player in whatever capacity people see fit.
For Welbeck specifically, no one cares about how he's doing from week to week or how his allround game is. It's a place to go once in a while to say something like "oh, a former player and academy graduate is doing well, that's nice", or "he's better than what we have, how are we so bad". No one feels the need to lie about what they're doing, because that would be super weird, and also completely unnecessary. Here it's different.
Why would there be?
But this thread here is more of a vehicle to indulge in misogynistic viewpoints or the desire to be contrarian. Of the posters celebrating/mentioning his goals, probably 5% have seen the games. The others only see in the result that he scored and then post here.
The thing is, he's different from other non-United players. On the one hand, what @NotThatSoph has said, and on the other, no other ex-United player has had several threads, hundreds of pages and tens of thousands of posts discussing them on here in the very recent past. This is very, very obvious. Pretending he's no different to other non-United players is ridiculous. You are completely free to discuss his performances without acting like the majority of discussions of his personal issues is that different to other alleged domestic abusers and sex offenders.
Surely every other former United players thread is littered with their reasons for leaving too?
I know its usually due to performance instead of alleged domestic abuse but if someone posted (Using Welbeck as an example);
"Wow Danny Welbeck was amazing last week and got a goal and assist."
And another poster replied;
"Yeah but he wasn't good enough for us"
Would it be controversial?
The controversy seems to be based around Greenwoods reasons for leaving which are naturally going to be brought up, like every other players thread (Whether it be injuries, age or performance), when his his performances are discussed.
I know its usually due to performance instead of alleged domestic abuse but if someone posted (Using Welbeck as an example);
"Wow Danny Welbeck was amazing last week and got a goal and assist."
And another poster replied;
"Yeah but he wasn't good enough for us"
Would it be controversial?
The controversy seems to be based around Greenwoods reasons for leaving which are naturally going to be brought up, like every other players thread (Whether it be injuries, age or performance), when his his performances are discussed.
Assuming reports that we get a straight 50% of any sell on are true (with a cut to Getafe apparently), to be worth it for Marseille it would need to be a fee of £70m+
I guess there are only a handful of clubs who can afford that outside of England but still some options
Yes there is
Well, of course it's not only used for reasons I support; dictators do the same when they forbid talk of opposition. And inversely, progressivists beat against the edge of the window when they try to create/widen acceptance for anything 2SLGBTQI+ (Canadian acronym). So I wasn't so much making a moral point as explaining why this happens and why it's persistent - cause that seems to baffle people.
Btw, great post by @UnrelatedPsuedo about Greenwood's lack of accountability being the big issue here! (Regardless of whether the Tyson example is right; I have no idea myself.)
Still a convicted rapist, but everybody loves him, I haven't seen anything bad written about him anywhere, tv shows a new fight coming up etc
When wellbeck is on good form and scoring that thread is active, when he's not its not that active. There was a poster here asking why this thread was so quiet over the international break and when he wasn't scoring. It can't be both things. As I said, when he puts in good performances and scores it gets bumped just as other threads do.
Greenwood had a good performance over the weekend and as a result this thread became more active. With that increased activity was there misogynistic posts during that period? an honest question as If so they should be moderated.
Neville was on the overlap saying we should have never sold Welbeck
he scores about 5 goals a season ffsYes, which is how we know that the analyzing his performances spiel was never true, as I said. That was what people claimed they wanted to do, in an effort to get talk of his personal life banned, but what you want is to praise him when he's doing well.
To buy him back potentially?
Interesting to see if we attempt to get him back in a few years then
In fairness he does score them against us.Neville was on the overlap saying we should have never sold Welbeck