I understand. This looked like it had been confirmed.
Mason Greenwood, Marseille Footballer | Read the thread rules in the OP before posting
- Thread starter SilentWitness
- Start date
His girlfriend seems to have cooperated fully with the police at the start and he was charged with attempted rape. I'd say its more likely that he had made similar threats before, rather than actually doing it.
Don't forget the violence too.
He was actually beating her in arguments, that's more likely why she started documenting it.
We as mods always 'dictate' how people discuss things. It makes it better than most discussions on the internet in my opinion. In this case, some of us see that creating a space to discuss MG's football while not permitting any other chat is not a good look for the forum. Others see that as an intrusion into the football discussions.
As for the posters, labels will always be thrown in polarised discussions, rape apologists versus virtue signaling or bullying mods, as is the way. Some of the posts over the past couple of years mitigating the acts have been horrendous and I imagine quite traumatic for some posters to read. So there will be a little bit of 'you can't say that' to some of the posts. Understandably so if it causes actual pain and hurt.
On the flip side, if I wanted to discuss just football I'd just ignore the noise of the moralisers and the bullies, but they don't. Bizarrely people get annoyed by other people wanting his actions punctuating the discussion. There are no victims when people call MG a scumbag.
They should just get over it, and chat about football, the way they moved on from what MG did to just chat about football.
The idea that someone is called a rape apologist because they object to me calling MG a scrote is a bit of a leap.
Soo... did he play well this weekend?
This thread in my opinion should only be about his performances on the pitch, and discussions on him as a player.
All the discussions around him being a rapist, a scumbag etc are pointless and we just end up going in circle until the thread is locked.
All the discussions around him being a rapist, a scumbag etc are pointless and we just end up going in circle until the thread is locked.
I agree.
worse than a leap. That would be crazy. As crazy as people labeling folks "fan boys and rape apologists" for merely discussing his football deeds. But as said earlier. This entire thing rarely involves sense. Its almost always all emotion, leaps to judgment/conclusions and zero nuance. I'm just glad he is gone from United. More Glad I'm not responsible for moderating discussing the chaos in the wake of the shadow of his deeds.
Fair enough, mate but we don't know about the bolded (do we?). I just think the points had been well and clearly made from every possible angle in all the previous threads and since there are no new allegations, it looks like the only purpose it serves in discussions about his current news is going around in circles, rehashing done discussions and people winding each other up. I don't want to tell others what to do, but those who feel very deeply about the issue should maybe care for their mental health and keep away from the thread?
In any case, @moses 's last post here is a very sensible one. I think we will have to live with this thread the way it is and hope people refrain from attacking those commenting on performances, that is unnecessarily toxic, but people can call him anything they want, if they're so inclined.
If the capabilities are there, the mods could have it affixed to each page/comment a summary of the kind of person Mason is, that he’s been and may still be a violent person, and likely perpetrator of sexual assault—similarly to the labeling on cigarette packs regarding the dangers. That way, posters can have their football discussion and Mason’s wrongdoings will always be conspicuous. Anyone that the mods deem out of line can be threadbanned, permabanned, or otherwise dealt with accordingly. And as always for the rest of us, the Ignore function exists for our benefit.
This is the whole point of a discussion forum though, to discuss.
Choosing what to separate and block can easily be seen as whitewashing. You have all or you have nothing. Besides, there was a performance only thread and it went exactly as you could predict, and the modmins decided that wasn't right. I agree with their decision there.
It's already been explained why the mods don't want this.
Not every other thread here has the same controversy attached.
But I suppose you're right. Do people want news or do they want to bicker and argue?
3 goals in 2 games and seems like good performances in both games. Will be interesting to see how many goals he can get in that league.
I thought he was a bit subdued. Most of the play seemed to go down the left, especially when they were chasing the equalizer, but he took his goal well and was involved in a good amount of the build up.
The wild thing is that things ''go in a circle''
when people mention that he's a violent attempted rapist because some of the people that 'just want to talk about football' push back and either seek to mitigate what he did or play the 'whatabout' game. The fact is that those that want to talk football can do so - they don't have to engage with those of us that don't want his actions to be forgotten.
I don't see how you can even compare the two scenarios.
He'd probably prefer to have a thousand pigs heads thrown at him.
That is because you want to pretrend the vitroil Figo face was not bad enough for him to need protection to play at the Nou Camp and instead want to focus on comparing their morals. As if there are any grounds to compare their morals in the first place. Classic non sequitaur fallacy type thinking. If you have decided Figo is being equated to a sex offender that is entirely a you problem.
I just don’t get the reason it needs to be brought up every conversation. It derails any conversation entirely.
We don’t need people to tell us every single time he’s mentioned that Bin Laden was a scumbag.
But you would if Bin Laden also played football and you wanted to have a thread just about his football skills
It's more like if there was a thread on Bin Laden and people only wanted to talk about the fact he was a good public speaker.
I'm not comparing morals, you just can't compare the two scenarios. Figo willingly left to join his clubs biggest rivals at the peak of his powers. Tevez coming back to play for City is more like Figo.
Greenwood was transferred out of Utd because of his own actions, this isn't remotely comparable. There is absolutely no way of knowing how 70,000 Utd fans or even just a few idiots could react to seeing him on that pitch against the team he'd be playing for if he hadn't fcuked it up through his own actions. It's not a situation the club should ever have to deal with either, I sincerely hope never sets foot inside OT ever again.
Bill Cosby was a great comedian too, if it weren't for the hypocrisy we'd be able to discuss how funny he was.
This thread is a depressing read and the mentalities of some people are weird, at least to me.
What he has done should render mute his footballing capability and of course it's almost impossible to talk about Greenwood's "pure football" without bringing up the fact that he is a rapist.
At this point, why the feck do you care how he was as a footballer?
Let's take it away from football at the moment, imagine someone comes in and starts with any of the following comments/scenarios:
"Hey, look, noncing aside, wouldn't you agree that Jeffrey Epstein was an incredible investment banker/Investor/Financier?"
"Look, lets ignore all the stuff outside of filmmaking, what do you think of Harvey Weinstein on his film producing abilities?"
"I think we can all agree that if we ignore his personal life and focus entirely on his ability as a doctor, Harold Shipman was a very good medical practitioner"
"If we all ignore the bad stuff that isn't relevant to music, Gary glitter was an excellent musician"
If someone said that to you, your first reaction (or atleast it should be), would be, "Mate, what the actual feck?" And if it isn't your first reaction, you are a strange person.
So why the hell are people insisting on treating Greenwood differently and "Lets just focus on a pure football discussion!" It's nonsense.
There are some stuff you can ignore; A lot of footballers have cheated on their wives, a lot of footballers have done other morally dubious things that sit in the grey area of whether you can kind of disregard when discussing them (say for example, Rooney). Greenwood has crossed that threshold by about 1000 miles.
What he has done should render mute his footballing capability and of course it's almost impossible to talk about Greenwood's "pure football" without bringing up the fact that he is a rapist.
At this point, why the feck do you care how he was as a footballer?
Let's take it away from football at the moment, imagine someone comes in and starts with any of the following comments/scenarios:
"Hey, look, noncing aside, wouldn't you agree that Jeffrey Epstein was an incredible investment banker/Investor/Financier?"
"Look, lets ignore all the stuff outside of filmmaking, what do you think of Harvey Weinstein on his film producing abilities?"
"I think we can all agree that if we ignore his personal life and focus entirely on his ability as a doctor, Harold Shipman was a very good medical practitioner"
"If we all ignore the bad stuff that isn't relevant to music, Gary glitter was an excellent musician"
If someone said that to you, your first reaction (or atleast it should be), would be, "Mate, what the actual feck?" And if it isn't your first reaction, you are a strange person.
So why the hell are people insisting on treating Greenwood differently and "Lets just focus on a pure football discussion!" It's nonsense.
There are some stuff you can ignore; A lot of footballers have cheated on their wives, a lot of footballers have done other morally dubious things that sit in the grey area of whether you can kind of disregard when discussing them (say for example, Rooney). Greenwood has crossed that threshold by about 1000 miles.
Just close the thread.... It's literally the same as the last thread, and the one before that....
People do this all the time in fairness.
Polanski and Woody Allen have made great art. MJ, Dre, Bowie, Lennon - take your pick from 100 others - have produced music that's still celebrated today. Tyson ranks high on most people's all-time rankings, Mayweather too. Kobe still makes Top 10 lists. We have a statue of Best outside Old Trafford and he has an airport named after him. You could list off hundreds more across the public sphere.
I think there's a difference between appreciating the art and the artist. It's complicated though and we all have different lines and those lines don't always make sense. For example, I love Chinatown but I find Kevin Spacey takes me out of whatever he's in. Why though, when Polanski is accused of a worse crime than Spacey and he admitted to his crime? I don't know. It's complicated, messy, grey. For me at least.
The majority of those cases like Tyson, Bowie, Spacey, MJ etc were very different to Greenwood.
Those cases led a lot of room for doubt, a genuine "Did he actually do it?"
Granted a lot of those "doubts" are dug up by hardcore fans coping so who knows, but there's enough of doubt out there to give them a potential benefit of the doubt.
This is not the case for Greenwood. In those cases evidence wasn't leaked. There was not an audio recording of Spacey raping a teenage boy.
There is an audio recording in the public domain of Greenwood that no amount of fans "coping" or no display of cognitive dissonance can ever repress. He is a rapist. Closed and shut case.
It's a complex issue, and a frustrating one, because clearly justice systems should be built around rehabilitation. At the same time though should football as an industry (and the game we all love and spend time, money, and thoughts on) really be this soft and welcoming to people doing horrific things? Are we as football fans really content with ignoring heinous transgressions as long as the player meaningfully contributes on the pitch?
We're not talking speeding violations or recreational drug consumption or tax avoidance here: We're talking about crimes that are remarkably common, and we've all got female relatives who very likely might have had experiences of sexual assault/domestic violence. And yet we see people cheering (or ignoring the acts), because a club decided to sign someone who did just that?
This does not feel right at all.
We're not talking speeding violations or recreational drug consumption or tax avoidance here: We're talking about crimes that are remarkably common, and we've all got female relatives who very likely might have had experiences of sexual assault/domestic violence. And yet we see people cheering (or ignoring the acts), because a club decided to sign someone who did just that?
This does not feel right at all.
Ideal scenario:
- Greenwood performs greatly (Mbappe-ish level) so that a bidding war for him happens next summer.
- A club I hate (Liverpool, Barcelona…etc) buys him with an absurd fee so that we get that sell-on clause we desperately need.
- Greenwood falls into obscurity at that club. We can continue hating him and that club together, while laughing at them for helping us funding a new key signing (Like when Liverpool got VVD from Coutinho’s money).
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There’s not an audio recording of Greenwood committing a rape though, just basically threatening to. The longer audio has never been available in the public domain.
To say there’s doubt on MJ, but absolutely no doubt on MG strikes as odd to me. MJ actually had/has multiple complaints and absolutely has paid off alleged victims.
Kobe’s case was not with a GF or wife, had DNA evidence, viginal trauma evidence and paid off a 19 year old who was from a rich family.
I think the thread is odd, I can absolutely understand comments like “still a scumbag though”, but the constant need to strike down any chat about his career is weird to me. The thread should be only for discussion about his career and absolutely comments like “absolute twat is doing well” should be allowed, but after all these years, if the constant roundabout is allowed to continue, it’s better to just feck it off all together.
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Good return in his first 2 games and i firmly expect that to continue with him scoring regularly. De Zerbi seems like a good coach for him, have the fans taken to him do we know?
In a thread where every other post feels very aggressive, I appreciate this post. You acknowledged what op meant and come across as very calm.
Genuine question, agreed these people have done worse but why do some people not have the same reaction towards Giggs or Ronaldo?
My roomate is of this same belief.
“I can’t cry more than the bereaved” is his line.
Horrible thing MG did 100% but I guess it begs the question, does one act forever define a person? Is MG forever, MG an abuser? Or is it a time bound thing.
I mean Marcus Alonso seems to have gotten his man-slaughterer tag shaken off him.
You don't become an ex-rapist.
There’s still no proof of rape though as far as I’m aware, never was. There’s proof he threatened it.
And no, you don’t became “ex” to anything really, despite words like ex-convict. They stay with you, and MG will always be tarred by the tape and allegations.
Unfortunately you will just have to accept that many people seem to think being a good footballer is more important than battering women and trying to rape them. Sad but true.
Exactly
The fans took to Joey Barton so says a lot about their fanbase
People still call Alonso a murderer so not sure what you’re talking about
The reputation will follow him around for life, whether it’s on the football pitch or walking down the street
What about a whole sub forum?
We could have a thread on how his 'wife' has forgiven him?