Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

That street art he commented on! It’s pretty bad, even has the all seeing eye on it. :lol:

It all makes me sceptical of the insistence from his supporters that he’s completely benign.
 
There was an exchange in the Commons earlier where Corbyn said:

"I've been a robust critic of the actions of the Russian government"

One of his own MPs stood up and said in an article published after the Russian annexation of Crimea where his 'robustest' criticism seemed to be "I do not condone Russia, but..."

Is that robust criticism? Where is the evidence he's been on the side of fighting anti-Semitism besides the words 'I've been fighting anti-Semitism'?

Given Judaism and Israel are so spiritually intertwined Corbyn can't fight anti-Semitism without abandoning his own anti-Zionist ideology. It's a bit like hating Old Trafford and all those associated with it whilst bullshitting everyone you're the most devoted Man Utd fan ever.

He has nowhere to go now.
 
Given Judaism and Israel are so spiritually intertwined Corbyn can't fight anti-Semitism without abandoning his own anti-Zionist ideology. It's a bit like hating Old Trafford and all those associated with it whilst bullshitting everyone you're the most devoted Man Utd fan ever.

He has nowhere to go now.

Proof positive that the biggest danger to Jewish people are the Zionists, the latter is a racist ideology who's proponents will drag all Jewish people into its defence.
 

Well, yes...they do. Or at least have in the past, if I'm going to be kind of them. To suggest Hamas don't have any anti-semitic elements at all seems silly to me though.
 
One of his own MPs stood up and said in an article published after the Russian annexation of Crimea where his 'robustest' criticism seemed to be "I do not condone Russia, but..."
Corbyn wasn't in power when Crimea was invaded and even if he was in power he wouldn't have been able to do a thing. The US couldn't do anything beyond a bit of posturing. His opinion on the matter isn't relevant.
 
I have very little sympathy with Corbyn here though. He has, over a very long period of time, demonstrated very questionable judgement in who he has appeared alongside, groups he has been a part of, and how he has spoken. Those associations can't simply be dismissed by pleading ignorance every time – even if its true it suggests incompetence that makes him unfit to lead Labour. Whether it is fair or not if the shoe was on the other foot people would be rushing to condemn a right-wing politician based on the same evidence they're now attempting to dismiss because it is Corbyn.

Similarly I think it's slightly distasteful the way some Labour supporters have attempted to try and dismiss the seriousness of these comments by pointing towards it being particularly politically expedient for the Conservatives. No one, including Corbyn himself, seems to be seriously disputing that there is an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and until the issue is resolved it cannot be be dismissed by trying to shoot the messengers. There will always be some reason people will come up with to avoid having to tackle it head on, and some political crisis that is deemed 'more important'. I've seen some very questionable stuff on social media today which has done nothing but re-inforce how legitimate the issue is.

None of that should detract from other issues, be it Cambridge Analyitica, racism in other parties, or whatever, but if it does it suggests that Labour desperately need to get their own house in order, partly because its the right thing to do, but partly because its eroding their ability to speak out where Labour's voice is needed.

Or I guess my take is that the Labour party has three options. One: pretend its not an issue and dismiss it (slightly problematic given that this story involves a Labour led investigation saying it is) Two: respond to the criticism properly, tackle the problem, do better, and lead by example. Three: Admit it is a problem, but argue that it being raised is proof of some conspiracy to undermine the socialist movement led by a powerful cabal of secretive Jews who control the media narrative and in doing so prove the very existence of the problem.

I'd say at the minute we're somewhere between two and three, but I hope to god we go to two.

Couldn’t be more spot on.
 
I have very little sympathy with Corbyn here though. He has, over a very long period of time, demonstrated very questionable judgement in who he has appeared alongside, groups he has been a part of, and how he has spoken. Those associations can't simply be dismissed by pleading ignorance every time – even if its true it suggests incompetence that makes him unfit to lead Labour. Whether it is fair or not if the shoe was on the other foot people would be rushing to condemn a right-wing politician based on the same evidence they're now attempting to dismiss because it is Corbyn.

Similarly I think it's slightly distasteful the way some Labour supporters have attempted to try and dismiss the seriousness of these comments by pointing towards it being particularly politically expedient for the Conservatives. No one, including Corbyn himself, seems to be seriously disputing that there is an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and until the issue is resolved it cannot be be dismissed by trying to shoot the messengers. There will always be some reason people will come up with to avoid having to tackle it head on, and some political crisis that is deemed 'more important'. I've seen some very questionable stuff on social media today which has done nothing but re-inforce how legitimate the issue is.

None of that should detract from other issues, be it Cambridge Analyitica, racism in other parties, or whatever, but if it does it suggests that Labour desperately need to get their own house in order, partly because its the right thing to do, but partly because its eroding their ability to speak out where Labour's voice is needed.

Or I guess my take is that the Labour party has three options. One: pretend its not an issue and dismiss it (slightly problematic given that this story involves a Labour led investigation saying it is) Two: respond to the criticism properly, tackle the problem, do better, and lead by example. Three: Admit it is a problem, but argue that it being raised is proof of some conspiracy to undermine the socialist movement led by a powerful cabal of secretive Jews who control the media narrative and in doing so prove the very existence of the problem.

I'd say at the minute we're somewhere between two and three, but I hope to god we go to two.
Top post.
 
I have very little sympathy with Corbyn here though. He has, over a very long period of time, demonstrated very questionable judgement in who he has appeared alongside, groups he has been a part of, and how he has spoken. Those associations can't simply be dismissed by pleading ignorance every time – even if its true it suggests incompetence that makes him unfit to lead Labour. Whether it is fair or not if the shoe was on the other foot people would be rushing to condemn a right-wing politician based on the same evidence they're now attempting to dismiss because it is Corbyn.

Similarly I think it's slightly distasteful the way some Labour supporters have attempted to try and dismiss the seriousness of these comments by pointing towards it being particularly politically expedient for the Conservatives. No one, including Corbyn himself, seems to be seriously disputing that there is an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and until the issue is resolved it cannot be be dismissed by trying to shoot the messengers. There will always be some reason people will come up with to avoid having to tackle it head on, and some political crisis that is deemed 'more important'. I've seen some very questionable stuff on social media today which has done nothing but re-inforce how legitimate the issue is.

None of that should detract from other issues, be it Cambridge Analyitica, racism in other parties, or whatever, but if it does it suggests that Labour desperately need to get their own house in order, partly because its the right thing to do, but partly because its eroding their ability to speak out where Labour's voice is needed.

Or I guess my take is that the Labour party has three options. One: pretend its not an issue and dismiss it (slightly problematic given that this story involves a Labour led investigation saying it is) Two: respond to the criticism properly, tackle the problem, do better, and lead by example. Three: Admit it is a problem, but argue that it being raised is proof of some conspiracy to undermine the socialist movement led by a powerful cabal of secretive Jews who control the media narrative and in doing so prove the very existence of the problem.

I'd say at the minute we're somewhere between two and three, but I hope to god we go to two.

Largely fair, would struggle to disagree with any of that.
 
At best, this derives from the far left's obsessive hatred of Zionism, Zionists and Israel
Few things are more irritating than when people conflate Zionism, Judaism and Israel and then use them as interchangeable.

Hizbollah
Hezbollah largely (or entirely) only came to exist as a result of Israel's invasion and subsequent occupation of Lebanon.

Not the same as Hezbollah. Deeply flawed in many respects, with much hardline rhetoric, but won a democratic election only to be branded terrorists not worthy of engagement.

Corbyn isn't antisemitic. There may be members of Labour who are, but it's nothing new. It's existed in one form or another for centuries (and it isn't confined primarily to the left, as history would seem to attest to). There is without a doubt a problem with antisemitism within Labour as Labour's own findings show, though I've never been comfortable with the grade of stupidity employed when these idiots try and define exactly what antisemitism is. See Al Jazeera's expose on Labour Friends of Israel (essentially crooks working for a foreign state) for more information. And no, that isn't a conspiracy.
 
I have very little sympathy with Corbyn here though. He has, over a very long period of time, demonstrated very questionable judgement in who he has appeared alongside, groups he has been a part of, and how he has spoken. Those associations can't simply be dismissed by pleading ignorance every time – even if its true it suggests incompetence that makes him unfit to lead Labour. Whether it is fair or not if the shoe was on the other foot people would be rushing to condemn a right-wing politician based on the same evidence they're now attempting to dismiss because it is Corbyn.

Similarly I think it's slightly distasteful the way some Labour supporters have attempted to try and dismiss the seriousness of these comments by pointing towards it being particularly politically expedient for the Conservatives. No one, including Corbyn himself, seems to be seriously disputing that there is an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and until the issue is resolved it cannot be be dismissed by trying to shoot the messengers. There will always be some reason people will come up with to avoid having to tackle it head on, and some political crisis that is deemed 'more important'. I've seen some very questionable stuff on social media today which has done nothing but re-inforce how legitimate the issue is.

None of that should detract from other issues, be it Cambridge Analyitica, racism in other parties, or whatever, but if it does it suggests that Labour desperately need to get their own house in order, partly because its the right thing to do, but partly because its eroding their ability to speak out where Labour's voice is needed.

Or I guess my take is that the Labour party has three options. One: pretend its not an issue and dismiss it (slightly problematic given that this story involves a Labour led investigation saying it is) Two: respond to the criticism properly, tackle the problem, do better, and lead by example. Three: Admit it is a problem, but argue that it being raised is proof of some conspiracy to undermine the socialist movement led by a powerful cabal of secretive Jews who control the media narrative and in doing so prove the very existence of the problem.

I'd say at the minute we're somewhere between two and three, but I hope to god we go to two.



This letter looks like a decent first step towards “two”. Fair play to whoever wrote it. Be interesting to see where he goes from here.
 
Here is the full text of the open letter to the Labour Party by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council.

Today, leaders of British Jewry tell Jeremy Corbyn that enough is enough. We have had enough of hearing that Jeremy Corbyn "opposes anti-Semitism", whilst the mainstream majority of British Jews, and their concerns, are ignored by him and those he leads.

There is a repeated institutional failure to properly address Jewish concerns and to tackle anti-Semitism, with the Chakrabarti Report being the most glaring example of this.

Jeremy Corbyn did not invent this form of politics, but he has had a lifetime within it, and now personifies its problems and dangers. He issues empty statements about opposing anti-Semitism, but does nothing to understand or address it. We conclude that he cannot seriously contemplate anti-Semitism, because he is so ideologically fixed within a far left worldview that is instinctively hostile to mainstream Jewish communities.

When Jews complain about an obviously anti-Semitic mural in Tower Hamlets, Corbyn of course supports the artist. Hizbollah commits terrorist atrocities against Jews, but Corbyn calls them his friends and attends pro-Hizbollah rallies in London. Exactly the same goes for Hamas. Raed Salah says Jews kill Christian children to drink their blood. Corbyn opposes his extradition and invites him for tea at the House of Commons. These are not the only cases. He is repeatedly found alongside people with blatantly anti-Semitic views, but claims never to hear or read them.

Again and again, Jeremy Corbyn has sided with anti-Semites rather than Jews. At best, this derives from the far left's obsessive hatred of Zionism, Zionists and Israel. At worst, it suggests a conspiratorial worldview in which mainstream Jewish communities are believed to be a hostile entity, a class enemy.

When Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party, Jews expressed sincere and profound fears as to how such politics would impact upon their wellbeing. Our concerns were never taken seriously. Three years on, the party and British Jews are reaping the consequences.

Routine statements against anti-Semitism "and all forms of racism" get nowhere near dealing with the problem, because what distinguishes anti-Semitism from other forms of racism is the power that Jews are alleged to hold, and how they are charged with conspiring together against what is good.

This is not only historic, or about what Jeremy Corbyn did before being party leader. It is also utterly contemporary. There is literally not a single day in which Labour Party spaces, either online or in meetings, do not repeat the same fundamental anti-Semitic slanders against Jews. We are told that our concerns are faked, and done at the command of Israel and/or Zionism (whatever that means); that anti-Semitism is merely "criticism of Israel"; that we call any and all criticism of Israel "anti-Semitic"; that the Rothschilds run the world; that Isis terrorism is a fake front for Israel; that Zionists are the new Nazis; and that Zionists collaborate with Nazis.

Rightly or wrongly, Jeremy Corbyn is now the figurehead for an anti-Semitic political culture, based on obsessive hatred of Israel, conspiracy theories and fake news that is doing dreadful harm to British Jews and to the British Labour Party.

Jeremy Corbyn is the only person with the power to demand that it stops. Enough is enough.

Criticising Israel's Human Rights Abuses ≠ Anti Semitic

And there's a load of lies in that bolded part

Can you list any anti-semitism in the Labour party that isn't an attack on Israeli human rights abuses?
 
Imagine if May had to apologise 3 times in a week for instances of racism in the Tory party, and then there was an anti-racism demonstration targeted at the perceived weakness at addressing racism in the Tory party, but Tory supporters turned up and held a protest the protest against racism.

Read that aloud and try to pretend that you wouldn't find those protesting against those protesting against racism to be fecking weird and distasteful.

What if the group claiming racism was doing so because instead of actual racism people were in fact protesting a country practicing genocide and the claim of racism was in fact a lie. Are the people claiming racism therefore disingenous and unethical?
 
Given Judaism and Israel are so spiritually intertwined Corbyn can't fight anti-Semitism without abandoning his own anti-Zionist ideology. It's a bit like hating Old Trafford and all those associated with it whilst bullshitting everyone you're the most devoted Man Utd fan ever.

He has nowhere to go now.

These gentlemen disagree

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Hypocricy at it's finest. Complaining about anti-Zionist groups not acknowledging Israel as somehow 'anti-semitic' when Israel itself won't acknowledge or accept a Palestinian State. Then listing an Israeli Jewish concious objector to Israelis crimes in a list of 'anti semites'.

According to this article, complaining about genocide = anti semitic

It seems to me that you're desperate to somehow divorce Judaism from (your deformed definition of) Zionism which in turn then gives you the space to bash the Jewish state under the disguise of human rights. Having experienced anti-semitism/zionism first hand, here's just some of blurred lines that Jeremy Corbyn refuses to see.
antisemtitism_antizionism5.jpg
 
Like I was saying earlier, this has little to do with anti-sematism, way more about the apartheid state of Israel wishing to shut down criticism
 
Like I was saying earlier, this has little to do with anti-sematism, way more about the apartheid state of Israel wishing to shut down criticism

You as a Muslim (which, lets face it, is the real reason you are Pro Palestinian) are more than aware of the antisemitism that sadly emanates from coreligionists - Islamic antisemitism is nothing new.

If the Palestinians weren't Muslim, and the Israeli's weren't Jews, nobody would give a toss. Including Corbyn.
 
Like I was saying earlier, this has little to do with anti-sematism, way more about the apartheid state of Israel wishing to shut down criticism

Yeah, nothing to do with antisemitism... from the man who claims 'Hamas has nothing against Jews' :rolleyes:
 
The politically clever move as a leader of a major political party, when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is to never mention it. It's politically toxic.

Corbyn doesn't have that option, because he has for a long time been speaking up for Palestinians, before he became leader.

So his options are

A) Pretend not to believe the things he believes that he has stated he believed consistently for a very long time - which given his whole 'shtick' is his principled thing - doesn't really work.

B) Say as little as possible and hope it goes away. Largely what we've had so far and it isn't going away.

C) Talk seriously about his views and in the process make a lot of anti-semitic conspiracy theorists on the left think he is fine with them but just doesn't want to admit it.

I think we're currently a mix of A and B.
 
The politically clever move as a leader of a major political party, when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is to never mention it. It's politically toxic.

Corbyn doesn't have that option, because he has for a long time been speaking up for Palestinians, before he became leader.

So his options are

A) Pretend not to believe the things he believes that he has stated he believed consistently for a very long time - which given his whole 'shtick' is his principled thing - doesn't really work.

B) Say as little as possible and hope it goes away. Largely what we've had so far and it isn't going away.

C) Talk seriously about his views and in the process make a lot of anti-semitic conspiracy theorists on the left think he is fine with them but just doesn't want to admit it.

I think we're currently a mix of A and B.

Is it fair to say he's a B on Brexit?
 
You as a Muslim (which, lets face it, is the real reason you are Pro Palestinian) are more than aware of the antisemitism that sadly emanates from coreligionists - Islamic antisemitism is nothing new.

If the Palestinians weren't Muslim, and the Israeli's weren't Jews, nobody would give a toss. Including Corbyn.

I'm anti-racist and that's why I'm anti Israel
 
Like I was saying earlier, this has little to do with anti-sematism, way more about the apartheid state of Israel wishing to shut down criticism

I'm reading a lot of complaints about anti semitism from British Jews who are neither religious nor who hold a particular torch for Israel. I think the burden is on the rest of us to give them a fair hearing. So maybe it's time to listen.
 
I'm reading a lot of complaints about anti semitism from British Jews who are neither religious nor who hold a particular torch for Israel. I think the burden is on the rest of us to give them a fair hearing. So maybe it's time to listen.

They marched in response to call from the British board of deputies which definitely has a zionist agenda
 
The insinuation there's something questionable when Corbyn breaks bread with Hezbollah is a smear but if Normal Tebbit turns up to the march you're on you definitely haven't faced antisemitism.
 
The insinuation there's something questionable when Corbyn breaks bread with Hezbollah is a smear but if Normal Tebbit turns up to the march you're on you definitely haven't faced antisemitism.
You're right, Norman Tebbit and Ian Paisley Jr were definitely there because of their life long fights against bigotry in all forms. It wasn't at all a political stunt.
 
It's just interesting how the rule of condemnation by association works. Call terrorists your 'friends' you're fine, believe as a member of a minority that you've suffered discrimination because you're a member of that minority and you find yourself standing within a 30 feet of a Tory MP (outside Parliament of all places, what are the odds?) you have no credibility at all.

Maybe if a black person claims they've experienced racism it can be debunked by finding an issue on which they share agreement with a politician I dislike.

That's how it works, right?
 
It's just interesting how the rule of condemnation by association works. Call terrorists your 'friends' you're fine, believe as a member of a minority that you've suffered discrimination because you're a member of that minority and you find yourself standing within a 30 feet of a Tory MP (outside Parliament of all places, what are the odds?) you have no credibility at all.
So, what time is the rally again? I must have missed the one after Anne Marie Morris was reinstated too.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tive-harrow-east-racism-muslims-a8276101.html

Maybe if a black person claims they've experienced racism it can be debunked by finding an issue on which they share agreement with a politician I dislike.
You genuinely think Ian Paisley Jr and Norman 'Cricket test' Tebbit were at the march because they're against bigotry and intolerance of minorities?
 
So publicly supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, denying the existence of a genocide in Kosovo and marching through the lobby with Tory MPs dozens and dozens of times are the actions of a principled man.

If you're Jewish and want to make a point about antisemitism you're not allowed if Ian Paisley jnr is nearby.

Cool.