In that case I wonder why Corbyn is so keen to now distance himself from it (and why he ever left)?
Met, stood and spoke alongside at rallies, worked for, etc.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In that case I wonder why Corbyn is so keen to now distance himself from it (and why he ever left)?
Met, stood and spoke alongside at rallies, worked for, etc.
Because of bullshit like this report
Are you under the impression it would be possible to campaign and attend rallies on either side of the Palestine/Israel debate without any fringe elements saying something racist?
Never mind discussions on the internet....
Let me flip this and be specific - are you under the impression it would be impossible to avoid (a) working for Press TV, (b) speaking at the Quds Day rally, (c) meeting Hamas and referring to them as 'friends', and (d) being a member of a secret FB group whose founder invites notorious anti-semites like Gilad Atzmon, Ken O'Keefe and Paul Eisen to join and posts links to them and defends them, while campaigning on behalf of the Palestinian cause?
That is exactly what has happened here. You are either in denial or are being obtuse. It is clearly anti-Semitic.
Sure, but nothing wrong with any of them
Well you didn't answer my question for obvious reasons but I'll answer the one you've posed related to your original post (rather than this trolling rant you've gone on).
Yes if you're added in by someone else than yes it would be near enough impossible.
Well you didn't answer my question for obvious reasons but I'll answer the one you've posed related to your original post (rather than this trolling rant you've gone on).
Yes if you're added in by someone else than yes it would be near enough impossible.
Right, to answer your question - yes of course it is possible. People like Peter Thatchell for example would be sure to avoid this crowd. The greatest and most influential advocates for the Palestinian cause - Edward Said and Noam Chomsky - were/are principled activists who somehow managed to avoid associating with anti-semites like this throughout their lives.
Edward Said died in 2003, Facebook was founded in 2004
The chair of Labour Friends of Israel has asked for an apology, but remember folks, it's not about Israel
Do you know what Said wrote about Hamas?
No
Don't think Corbyn is antisemitic at all. His past associations are as much down to someone without the foresight to imagine he'll ever be held up to the scrutiny of leader of his party. But having a politician who hasn't calculated every thing he's ever said and everyone he's ever met isn't a bad thing. I think a lot of the Momentum influx in the party are definitely anti-Israeli. This doesn't make them antisemitic of course, but I think there's a fair few that don't really understand the distinction and therefore their hatred of Israel bleeds into antisemitism.
A lot of them are also relatively unschooled on the political correct way of conducting public discourse. They often seem to be quite shouty, aggressive and quick to anger. Just like the hard right are. But the hard right have been at it for years to the point where it's just a din now to most people. The hard left are the newer shouty, aggressive, angry folk in the game so their shouty, aggressive, anger is more noticeable right now. Certainly a media that skews to the right helps this perception.
A lot of them are also relatively unschooled on the political correct way of conducting public discourse. They often seem to be quite shouty, aggressive and quick to anger. Just like the hard right are. But the hard right have been at it for years to the point where it's just a din now to most people. The hard left are the newer shouty, aggressive, angry folk in the game so their shouty, aggressive, anger is more noticeable right now. Certainly a media that skews to the right helps this perception.
Old bloke uses interweb. Some other blokes post offensive stuff on internets. Breaking news.
Here another example of parts of the left and anti-Semitism. The Canary writes this article about the assassination: https://www.thecanary.co/global/wor...makes-observation-unravels-russian-spy-story/
Apparently they think this Craig Murray fella is worth quoting. One click away they link to his blog post where he writes the following:
That is trademark modern anti-Semitism presented by conspiracy peddling bullshit artists. Unsurprisingly the canary seem to like that.
Apparently they think this Craig Murray fella is worth quoting. One click away they link to his blog post where he writes the following:
That is trademark modern anti-Semitism presented by conspiracy peddling bullshit artists. Unsurprisingly the canary seem to like that.
Firstly Murray used to the British ambassador to Uzbekistan but more importantly the Canary is a hack website and not representative of ''the Left'' in the UK.
Here is the full text of the open letter to the Labour Party by the Board of Deputies of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council.
Today, leaders of British Jewry tell Jeremy Corbyn that enough is enough. We have had enough of hearing that Jeremy Corbyn "opposes anti-Semitism", whilst the mainstream majority of British Jews, and their concerns, are ignored by him and those he leads.
There is a repeated institutional failure to properly address Jewish concerns and to tackle anti-Semitism, with the Chakrabarti Report being the most glaring example of this.
Jeremy Corbyn did not invent this form of politics, but he has had a lifetime within it, and now personifies its problems and dangers. He issues empty statements about opposing anti-Semitism, but does nothing to understand or address it. We conclude that he cannot seriously contemplate anti-Semitism, because he is so ideologically fixed within a far left worldview that is instinctively hostile to mainstream Jewish communities.
When Jews complain about an obviously anti-Semitic mural in Tower Hamlets, Corbyn of course supports the artist. Hizbollah commits terrorist atrocities against Jews, but Corbyn calls them his friends and attends pro-Hizbollah rallies in London. Exactly the same goes for Hamas. Raed Salah says Jews kill Christian children to drink their blood. Corbyn opposes his extradition and invites him for tea at the House of Commons. These are not the only cases. He is repeatedly found alongside people with blatantly anti-Semitic views, but claims never to hear or read them.
Again and again, Jeremy Corbyn has sided with anti-Semites rather than Jews. At best, this derives from the far left's obsessive hatred of Zionism, Zionists and Israel. At worst, it suggests a conspiratorial worldview in which mainstream Jewish communities are believed to be a hostile entity, a class enemy.
When Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party, Jews expressed sincere and profound fears as to how such politics would impact upon their wellbeing. Our concerns were never taken seriously. Three years on, the party and British Jews are reaping the consequences.
Routine statements against anti-Semitism "and all forms of racism" get nowhere near dealing with the problem, because what distinguishes anti-Semitism from other forms of racism is the power that Jews are alleged to hold, and how they are charged with conspiring together against what is good.
This is not only historic, or about what Jeremy Corbyn did before being party leader. It is also utterly contemporary. There is literally not a single day in which Labour Party spaces, either online or in meetings, do not repeat the same fundamental anti-Semitic slanders against Jews. We are told that our concerns are faked, and done at the command of Israel and/or Zionism (whatever that means); that anti-Semitism is merely "criticism of Israel"; that we call any and all criticism of Israel "anti-Semitic"; that the Rothschilds run the world; that Isis terrorism is a fake front for Israel; that Zionists are the new Nazis; and that Zionists collaborate with Nazis.
Rightly or wrongly, Jeremy Corbyn is now the figurehead for an anti-Semitic political culture, based on obsessive hatred of Israel, conspiracy theories and fake news that is doing dreadful harm to British Jews and to the British Labour Party.
Jeremy Corbyn is the only person with the power to demand that it stops. Enough is enough.
Today, leaders of British Jewry tell Jeremy Corbyn that enough is enough. We have had enough of hearing that Jeremy Corbyn "opposes anti-Semitism", whilst the mainstream majority of British Jews, and their concerns, are ignored by him and those he leads.
There is a repeated institutional failure to properly address Jewish concerns and to tackle anti-Semitism, with the Chakrabarti Report being the most glaring example of this.
Jeremy Corbyn did not invent this form of politics, but he has had a lifetime within it, and now personifies its problems and dangers. He issues empty statements about opposing anti-Semitism, but does nothing to understand or address it. We conclude that he cannot seriously contemplate anti-Semitism, because he is so ideologically fixed within a far left worldview that is instinctively hostile to mainstream Jewish communities.
When Jews complain about an obviously anti-Semitic mural in Tower Hamlets, Corbyn of course supports the artist. Hizbollah commits terrorist atrocities against Jews, but Corbyn calls them his friends and attends pro-Hizbollah rallies in London. Exactly the same goes for Hamas. Raed Salah says Jews kill Christian children to drink their blood. Corbyn opposes his extradition and invites him for tea at the House of Commons. These are not the only cases. He is repeatedly found alongside people with blatantly anti-Semitic views, but claims never to hear or read them.
Again and again, Jeremy Corbyn has sided with anti-Semites rather than Jews. At best, this derives from the far left's obsessive hatred of Zionism, Zionists and Israel. At worst, it suggests a conspiratorial worldview in which mainstream Jewish communities are believed to be a hostile entity, a class enemy.
When Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party, Jews expressed sincere and profound fears as to how such politics would impact upon their wellbeing. Our concerns were never taken seriously. Three years on, the party and British Jews are reaping the consequences.
Routine statements against anti-Semitism "and all forms of racism" get nowhere near dealing with the problem, because what distinguishes anti-Semitism from other forms of racism is the power that Jews are alleged to hold, and how they are charged with conspiring together against what is good.
This is not only historic, or about what Jeremy Corbyn did before being party leader. It is also utterly contemporary. There is literally not a single day in which Labour Party spaces, either online or in meetings, do not repeat the same fundamental anti-Semitic slanders against Jews. We are told that our concerns are faked, and done at the command of Israel and/or Zionism (whatever that means); that anti-Semitism is merely "criticism of Israel"; that we call any and all criticism of Israel "anti-Semitic"; that the Rothschilds run the world; that Isis terrorism is a fake front for Israel; that Zionists are the new Nazis; and that Zionists collaborate with Nazis.
Rightly or wrongly, Jeremy Corbyn is now the figurehead for an anti-Semitic political culture, based on obsessive hatred of Israel, conspiracy theories and fake news that is doing dreadful harm to British Jews and to the British Labour Party.
Jeremy Corbyn is the only person with the power to demand that it stops. Enough is enough.
I'm sorry, that's simply not true. Hamas despises Jews, as do most other militant Palestinian groups. This stance is not a secret.
From the wiki page outlining the Hamas covenant (the covenant is a public document)
While its true that there are plenty of people who genuinely oppose Israel and its policies, antisemitism in the Arab and Muslim world is hugely pervasive.
What a sick joke this man is...
Is protesting those protesting anti-Semitism a good look for a party whose leader is accused of being soft an anti-Semitism?
Somehow think they didn't think this through
Somehow think they didn't think this through
This march is definitely legitimate and not some point scoring exercise.
Such a shitshow, when you thought UK finally may have an opposition worth its salt he can't help himself. I supported the guy but on certain points he comes across a bit thick. Is there anyone out there who is capable of calling out torries and being sensible on most matters?
He comes across as someone who isn't really a leader. An idealist, maybe. Someone who might pop up on Channel 4 News occasionally and say generally agreeable things, sure. But leader? There have always been doubts for me. The constant, relentless, white noise of his cheerleaders doesn't really help either. It does come across as a little bit cultish. Especially when you get into people protesting people protesting against him. Politicians shouldn't be treated in such a sycophantic way, it's off-putting and slightly unnerving.
Protesting people because they're protesting a politician you like cannot be allowed to become the new normal. It's too weird. Thinking someone not liking someone you do is in itself reason to protest is a sign of just how far the rabbit hole we're disappearing into.
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Imagine if May had to apologise 3 times in a week for instances of racism in the Tory party, and then there was an anti-racism demonstration targeted at the perceived weakness at addressing racism in the Tory party, but Tory supporters turned up and held a protest the protest against racism.
Read that aloud and try to pretend that you wouldn't find those protesting against those protesting against racism to be fecking weird and distasteful.
Read that aloud and try to pretend that you wouldn't find those protesting against those protesting against racism to be fecking weird and distasteful.
That depends, is Norman Tebbit at this hypothetical march like he is the actual fecking one?
It's not a cult, there's just a massive Zionist conspiracy against him, right?
You've already done the cult bollocks in the other thread.
I feel like there needs to be balance here. I don't think Corbyn comes across as particularly anti-semitic, nor do I think the vast majority of the Labour Party do...even plenty of party figures who I have no love whatsoever towards. It does feel like a lot of this is being opportunistically inflated for political capital by opposing groups who have plenty of their own issues to deal with, and that there are elements of exaggeration to it. But nevertheless it's also clear that certain elements of the party (even if minor ones at a grassroots level) do display certain dodgy when it comes to criticising Israel in a particular way that is anti-semitic and anti-Jewish, even if plenty of complaints about the Israeli state are perfectly legitimate and justifiable. We're already seeing in this thread though that this is largely being used as a stick to beat Corbyn with from people who are always looking for sticks to beat him with.
Living you entire lives under occupation will give you a dim view of your oppressor
You cynic. If Ian Paisley Jr & Norman Tebbit are known for being anything it is valiant paragons of the fight against bigotry and prejudice.
Theresa May's personal secretary outed a whistle blower and she hasn't sacked him
If this was about anti-semetism the Labour Friends of Israel wouldn't have released a statement two days ago
Plus the Tories did have that case of an MP last summer explicitly using racist language, and I'm pretty sure said MP's suspension has now been rescinded and they're back in the party again. Which sort of negates that line of argument.
Jeremy Corbyn not coming across as a leader?
What, people are only just coming to this conclusion? He is a puppet for momentum nothing more, nothing less.
He is weak in every respect of leadership.
What, people are only just coming to this conclusion? He is a puppet for momentum nothing more, nothing less.
He is weak in every respect of leadership.
Good to know Corbyn is weak again, it's hard to keep up. He was channelling Stalin on Friday when he sacked Owen Smith.
There was an exchange in the Commons earlier where Corbyn said:
"I've been a robust critic of the actions of the Russian government"
One of his own MPs stood up and said in an article published after the Russian annexation of Crimea where his 'robustest' criticism seemed to be "I do not condone Russia, but..."
Is that robust criticism? Where is the evidence he's been on the side of fighting anti-Semitism besides the words 'I've been fighting anti-Semitism'?
"I've been a robust critic of the actions of the Russian government"
One of his own MPs stood up and said in an article published after the Russian annexation of Crimea where his 'robustest' criticism seemed to be "I do not condone Russia, but..."
Is that robust criticism? Where is the evidence he's been on the side of fighting anti-Semitism besides the words 'I've been fighting anti-Semitism'?
I have very little sympathy with Corbyn here though. He has, over a very long period of time, demonstrated very questionable judgement in who he has appeared alongside, groups he has been a part of, and how he has spoken. Those associations can't simply be dismissed by pleading ignorance every time – even if its true it suggests incompetence that makes him unfit to lead Labour. Whether it is fair or not if the shoe was on the other foot people would be rushing to condemn a right-wing politician based on the same evidence they're now attempting to dismiss because it is Corbyn.
Similarly I think it's slightly distasteful the way some Labour supporters have attempted to try and dismiss the seriousness of these comments by pointing towards it being particularly politically expedient for the Conservatives. No one, including Corbyn himself, seems to be seriously disputing that there is an issue with anti-Semitism in the Labour party, and until the issue is resolved it cannot be be dismissed by trying to shoot the messengers. There will always be some reason people will come up with to avoid having to tackle it head on, and some political crisis that is deemed 'more important'. I've seen some very questionable stuff on social media today which has done nothing but re-inforce how legitimate the issue is.
None of that should detract from other issues, be it Cambridge Analyitica, racism in other parties, or whatever, but if it does it suggests that Labour desperately need to get their own house in order, partly because its the right thing to do, but partly because its eroding their ability to speak out where Labour's voice is needed.
Or I guess my take is that the Labour party has three options. One: pretend its not an issue and dismiss it (slightly problematic given that this story involves a Labour led investigation saying it is) Two: respond to the criticism properly, tackle the problem, do better, and lead by example. Three: Admit it is a problem, but argue that it being raised is proof of some conspiracy to undermine the socialist movement led by a powerful cabal of secretive Jews who control the media narrative and in doing so prove the very existence of the problem.
I'd say at the minute we're somewhere between two and three, but I hope to god we go to two.
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