Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Fully Fledged said:
What she is saying is right though. The town I live in have some council estates where 4 out of 5 houses have no one working in them. These are estates that are predominantly white. There are large swathes of what I would call sub-working class white boys who nobody champions. They are as poor as the poorest people in the country but because they don't fit a minority they are forgotten about.
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She is right that there are poor white working class lads, who yes are some of the poorest people in the country(Which is why I think talk of white privilege at times is just stupid) that are completely forgotten but that's down to(I would argue as a Socialist) Capitalism and not that there's been a tiny tiny bit more force on women and people of colour(Which really doesn't amount to much as austerity has hurt people of colour more than anyone else in the UK).

The only way a Socialist Labour Party will succeed in changing the country will be to united people from different parts of the country together to fight for a common cause, uniting people with class politics(How they relate to Capitalism and not some nostalgia notion of working class culture)is the best way to do this.
 
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Sweet Square said:
She is right that there are poor white working class lads, who yes are some of the poorest people in the country(Which is why I think talk of white privilege at times is just stupid) that are completely forgotten but that's down to(I would argue as a Socialist) Capitalism and not that there's been a tiny tiny bit more force on women and people of colour(Which really doesn't amount to much as austerity has hurt people of colour more than anyone else in the UK).

The only way a Socialist Labour Party will succeed in changing the country will be to united people from different backgrounds together to fight for a common cause, uniting people with class politics is the best way to do this.
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I totally agree. Education is the biggest vehicle we have to bring people from different backgrounds to a common understanding. How you get children who's parents never had an education engaged in education is a big problem though.

The thing is that we need to find a way to engage the disenfranchised portions of the population. Be they female's who feel underappreciated/underrepresented, ethnic minorities who feel marginalised and the non-working class who feel no one cares.
 
Fully Fledged said:
What she is saying is right though. The town I live in have some council estates where 4 out of 5 houses have no one working in them. These are estates that are predominantly white. There are large swathes of what I would call sub-working class white boys who nobody champions. They are as poor as the poorest people in the country but because they don't fit a minority they are forgotten about.
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The politics of racism. Let's not create a fallacy that 'white working class' kids aren't championed by teachers and schools every bit as much as minority kids. The reason council estate white kids don't do well and immigrant kids do far better in equally deprived areas is because the immigrant kids parents are pushing them to do well in school where as most white council estate kids parents either are dysfunctional or aren't encouraging them to do well in school. I know teachers who teach in these areas where some children begin school at 4 (not nursery) not nappy trained, not being able to speak because no ones spoke to them, mums picking up kids in dressing gowns, parents advising kids 'don't listen to those teachers' etc etc.

Also how about differentiating between "white working class" and "white unemployed class" because the 2 are often very different with different aspirations.
 
Fully Fledged said:
I totally agree. Education is the biggest vehicle we have to bring people from different backgrounds to a common understanding. How you get children who's parents never had an education engaged in education is a big problem though.

The thing is that we need to find a way to engage the disenfranchised portions of the population. Be they female's who feel underappreciated/underrepresented, ethnic minorities who feel marginalised and the non-working class who feel no one cares.
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Agree with you. Regarding the Labour Party there's some interesting stuff about trying to get the party to reconnect more with communities(Using the ideas of the Black Panthers)

- https://newsocialist.org.uk/corbynism-from-below/

- https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/07/labour-reinvention-comes-from-bottom-up

But at the moment these are all just ideas and nothing concrete.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
The politics of racism. Let's not create a fallacy that 'white working class' kids aren't championed by teachers and schools every bit as much as minority kids. The reason council estate white kids don't do well and immigrant kids do far better in equally deprived areas is because the immigrant kids parents are pushing them to do well in school where as most white council estate kids parents either are dysfunctional or aren't encouraging them to do well in school. I know teachers who teach in these areas where some children begin school at 4 (not nursery) not nappy trained, not being able to speak because no ones spoke to them, mums picking up kids in dressing gowns, parents advising kids 'don't listen to those teachers' etc etc.
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I don't mean by teachers. I've taught and treated ever kid the same so did every teacher I know.

I said in one of my posts how do you engage kids in education when their parents were never educated. I was talking about council estate kids.

Edit: I will say though that boys aren't though. On teacher training days we often had courses on how to make learning a positive experience for girls. Never did I do a course on making education a positive experience for boys.
 
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WackyWengerWorld said:
The politics of racism. Let's not create a fallacy that 'white working class' kids aren't championed by teachers and schools every bit as much as minority kids. The reason council estate white kids don't do well and immigrant kids do far better in equally deprived areas is because the immigrant kids parents are pushing them to do well in school where as most white council estate kids parents either are dysfunctional or aren't encouraging them to do well in school. I know teachers who teach in these areas where some children begin school at 4 (not nursery) not nappy trained, not being able to speak because no ones spoke to them, mums picking up kids in dressing gowns, parents advising kids 'don't listen to those teachers' etc etc.

Also how about differentiating between "white working class" and "white unemployed class" because the 2 are often very different with different aspirations.
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This sort of shite won't work by the way. Being so woke that you end up sounding like representative for the Republican Party is pretty useless politically .
 
Fully Fledged said:
I don't mean by teachers. I've taught and treated ever kid the same so did every teacher I know.

I said in one of my posts how do you engage kids in education when their parents were never educated. I was talking about council estate kids.

Edit: I will say though that boys aren't though. On teacher training days we often had courses on how to make learning a positive experience for girls. Never did I do a course on making education a positive experience for boys.
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Is that a desirable thing? We know that different groups respond differently to different things. Girls do better in coursework for example and boys do better in exams for example. If we introduce a one size fits all approach and try and treat all kids the same, then is it any surprise we get unequal outcomes?

I'm not having a dig, just posing it as a pedagogical question.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Is that a desirable thing? We know that different groups respond differently to different things. Girls do better in coursework for example and boys do better in exams for example. If we introduce a one size fits all approach and try and treat all kids the same, then is it any surprise we get unequal outcomes?

I'm not having a dig, just posing it as a pedagogical question.
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What I meant by treating everybody the same was that you try not to favour one group over the other. It was a reply to someone who recons that thinking that poor white boys need to be championed just as much as minorities was racist.

You are right that boys and girls react to different stimuli. It goes further than course work and exams though. The same can be said for the truly gifted and those who need more support. You use your lesson plan and resources to try and keep everybody engaged.

I didn't do it for long before going back into industry though.
 



Goes on to suggest that Paul Mason is just like Alastair Campbell (Ouch!); that's gonna grate on him for years.
 
Dobba said:
Iain Dale, a man who threw a pensioner over for daring to protest, talking sarcastically about 'kinder gentler politics' will never not be hilarious.
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You ignore that it was Shelagh Fogarty who made the complaint, and it was her show Mason was supposed to appear on.
 
Rather sounds like LBC doing anything they can think of to bring about discussion cause they're bored to death of covering Carillion.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Rather sounds like LBC doing anything they can think of to bring about discussion cause they're bored to death of covering Carillion.
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What more can be said after covering it with four different presenters? And why should one topic preclude another from being discussed, and for what would likely have been one-tenth the time if that?

Nor is Fogarty an evil Tory.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
What more cna be said after covering it with four different presenters? And why should one topic preclude another from being discussed, and for what would likely have been one-tenth the time if that?

Nor is Fogarty an evil Tory.
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Not a lot. Hence why I imagine they're bored out of their mind and deciding a man they rang up being grumpy is newsworthy.
 
Paul Mason was rude to a LADY producer from radio daily mail.




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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Are they supposed to go through his 'people' then?
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Er... yes. I image there's many ways of contacting Mason but cold calling isn't one of them.
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Mason was rude tried to bully a member of staff; what he objected to was the topic.
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He was rude because they cold called him to talk about Jeremy Corbyn and he really hasn't got that much of interest in Corbyn(It's more the politics and movement thats of interest), oddly enough the people most obsessive with Corbyn are the anti Labour conservatives.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Not a lot. Hence why I imagine they're bored out of their mind and deciding a man they rang up being grumpy is newsworthy.
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Commentworthy might be more accurate than newsworthy, for it's not holding down a place in the half-hourly bulletin. He's a prominent supporter of Corbyn and high profile Momentum figure, how he is perceived reflects on the latter in particular. With the recent power shifts on Harigany council as a form of evidence local to the station, the increased influence of Momentum on the NEC is a valid segment on a political talk-show.
 
Sweet Square said:
Er... yes. I image there's many ways of contacting Mason but cold calling isn't one of them.
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Is that where we are in 2018, you can no longer just be called on the phone? Paul Mason is professional windbag, not a senator or member of the Cabinet. He has had prior interaction with the station, they are not strangers to each other; Mason had a tantrum because he wanted to thoose the topic of discussion.


Sweet Square said:
He was rude because they cold called him to talk about Jeremy Corbyn and he really hasn't got that much of interest in Corbyn(It's more the politics and movement thats of interest), oddly enough the people most obsessive with Corbyn are the anti Labour conservatives.
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You're calling Fogarty an anti-Labour Conservative?
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Is that where we are in 2018, you can no longer just be called on the phone? Paul Mason is professional windbag, not a senator or member of the Cabinet. He has had prior interaction with the station, they are not strangers to each other; Mason had a tantrum because he wanted to thoose the topic of discussion.
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Of course you can phone someone up but don't get upset(Especially if your cold calling)if you get told to feck off.

Nick 0208 Ldn said:
You're calling Fogarty an anti-Labour Conservative?
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Not really her(From the few clips I've seen she seems a boring liberal)but people like Ian Dale are obsessive with ''kinder politics'' stuff(Mainly due fact conservatism has absolutely nothing to say at the moment).
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Commentworthy might be more accurate than newsworthy, for it's not holding down a place in the half-hourly bulletin. He's a prominent supporter of Corbyn and high profile Momentum figure, how he is perceived reflects on the latter in particular. With the recent power shifts on Harigany council as a form of evidence local to the station, the increased influence of Momentum on the NEC is a valid segment on a political talk-show.
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I think it's childish gossip, to be honest. Sort of nonsense that usually only interests Paul Staines and his rather odd fanbase. I don't think I'd want LBC having my number if they think this is how to behave. Not that I have much love for Mason who is rather cringey himself.
 



Sweet Square said:
Of course you can phone someone up but don't get upset(Especially if your cold calling)if you get told to feck off.


Not really her(From the few clips I've seen she seems a boring liberal)but people like Ian Dale are obsessive with ''kinder politics'' stuff(Mainly due fact conservatism has absolutely nothing to say at the moment).
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So unless you make an appointment with Mason's non-existent secretary, he is justified to scream at soemeone down a phone line for the gross wrog of simply doing their job? Do you routinely act in such a way?


DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I don't think I'd want LBC having my number if they think this is how to behave. Not that I have much love for Mason who is rather cringey himself.
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But if you're a political jounro/commentator, is it not part of your job to maintaining such connections and appear on these programmes? If he'd declined with courtesy there would have been nl criticism to make.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:

So unless you ake an appointment with Mason's non-existent secretary, he is justified to scream at soemeone down a phone line for the gross wrog of simply doing their job? Do you routinely act in such a way?
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I normally the opposite when people cold call but at the same time I can easily see why Mason would get angry at someone cold calling him out of the blue to talk about Jeremy Corbyn. Just send him a email or tweet first asking if he wanted to be interviewed.
 
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Sweet Square said:
I normally the opposite when people cold call but at the same time I can easily see why Mason would get angry at someone cold calling him out of the blue to talk about Jeremy Corbyn. Just send him a email or tweet first asking if he wanted to be interviewed.
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Agreed. I work in media myself and this is always the way to do it. Would never just call someone and get stuck into an interview.

That said, the corbynistas seem to be a precious bunch.
 


Not entirely unexpected. And for those on the left of the party, welcome news.


EDIT: Dan Hodge's is pissed off by it, just in case you weren't sure it was a good thing.
 
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