Henrikh Mkhitaryan | BVB confirm transfer

[SwansonsTache]

Dortmund will get their will and we will move to 35-40 mill euros, Dortmund will sign the next big thing for 25m euros. Everybody is happy.

Actually they have already signed two replacements, both Mor and Dembele are most comfortable on RW where Micky Targaryan has done his best work this year.

 

[itso 7]

There are 5 players, Gundogan, Sahin, Hummels, Lewandowski, Gotze and Kagawa in 5 years. They all left for far bigger and richer clubs that's perfectly normal.
You can't force players to move and you can't force them to sign a new contract.

They could have had a king's ransom if they had put Hummels and Lewa on the market earlier particularly from an English club. Right now they find themselves in a similar situation and they are choosing posturing over common sense and money. One thing that's certain is that if Mkhitaryan is forced to see out his contract is that Bayern will sign him on a free just like Lewa did when they refused to sell him when he still had a year. Atletico were a selling club but through making they got the best deals they could on the players they sold have actually managed to build something special.

 

[JPRouve]

They could have had a king's ransom if they had put Hummels and Lewa on the market earlier particularly from an English club. Right now they find themselves in a similar situation and they are choosing posturing over common sense and money. One thing that's certain is that if Mkhitaryan is forced to see out his contract is that Bayern will sign him on a free just like Lewa did when they refused to sell him when he still had a year. Atletico were a selling club but through making they got the best deals they could on the players they sold have actually managed to build something special.

They don't want a king ransom!!!! They want the players.

 

[do.ob]

They could have had a king's ransom if they had put Hummels and Lewa on the market earlier particularly from an English club. Right now they find themselves in a similar situation and they are choosing posturing over common sense and money. One thing that's certain is that if Mkhitaryan is forced to see out his contract is that Bayern will sign him on a free just like Lewa did when they refused to sell him when he still had a year. Atletico were a selling club but through making they got the best deals they could on the players they sold have actually managed to build something special.

Lewandowski was set on Bayern (very) long before his contract ran out. They supposedly tapped him up two years before that.
And Dortmund isn't looking for maximum transfer profits, but for a financially sustainable way to have a competitive team.

 

[Bestie07]

Well at least they have got Auba on a long term contract, let's see if they force him to see out his contract when the big money offers inevitably pour in.

 

[M4YON]

No, that's not what a selling club does, they are not a selling but they are highly vulnerable to the top dogs.

Edit: They are rich enough to not have a seller club mentality but not rich enough to not be "bullied" by the huge clubs. The problem is that they are ambitious and rich enough to attract the players that the really big clubs want, which makes the vulnerable.

I'm a big fan of what dortmund have done over the last 6 years they're eye for talent and nurturing them is fantastic. As they continue to rise on the pitch the financial side does the same.

Their biggest issue is Bayern Munich, 3 players in the last few years to there direct league rivals sends a message to the rest of the worlds top clubs, it says we are pushovers and unless they change their transfer mentality top clubs will continue to come in and take there best players.

 

[JPRouve]

They sell their top players of course, duh. I mean it was you who mentioned "selling club" concept while talking about Atletico. And players from Madrid also went to a bigger clubs financially speaking at least.

You kind of lost me here. You've said that "Dortmund are different, they are not a selling club", what i am asking is how are they different if their players still leave and the only real difference is that they get not as much money as they could have gotten.

They don't have for strategy to sell players, if the player wants to stay he will stay, if he wants to leave they will let him leave at the end of his contract and they always anticipate by purchasing young players a year or two before the end of the main players contracts.

In reality only Hummels fecked them up because he pretended that he was going to stay and they didn't brought his replacement.

 

[itso 7]

Lewandowski was set on Bayern (very) long before his contract ran out. They supposedly tapped him up two years before that.
And Dortmund isn't looking for maximum transfer profits, but for a financially sustainable way to have a competitive team.

Ok if thats how they want then fair enough but it's almost heartbreaking to see them ripped apart for fees that Woodward pisses away on average talent like Schneiderlin. Makes one wonder what they could have built if they got some of the fees that us and City have paid out for absolute dross.

 

[nazanto]

So now the clubs that interested in him are united and arsenal right? We lost Sanchez (or not. depends on what you believed), but we managed to get Morgan (as i believed that arsenal were interested in him as well). And now its Micky. But his agent already mentioned our name as his preferred club and we I believed have a decent relationship with Dortmund. Re Kagawa back and forth. If Jose really want him, I'm positive we can get him. Micky an Breel on right side. Not bad i think.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Is there really any other outcome here.. It's going to be Bayern. This season or next. It's always Bayern

 

[Vilev]

They don't have for strategy to sell players, if the player wants to stay he will stay, if he wants to leave they will let him leave at the end of his contract and they always anticipate by purchasing young players a year or two before the end of the main players contracts.

In reality only Hummels fecked them up because he pretended that he was going to stay and they didn't brought his replacement.

Well almost nobody have a strategy of selling players, they all kind of "if the player leaves - he leaves", it's just the question of getting the maximum value out of that exit. I mean you think Atletico wanted to sell Costa or Aguero? I am kind of positive they would rather have kept them really. As for leaving the team, well only Lewa left at the end of his contract, everybody else were sold. It's just because they were sold just a year before their contract expired Dortmund got only a fraction of what could have been a bigger transfer fees and this cash could subsidize salary increase for example.

 

[Sphaero]

I'm a big fan of what dortmund have done over the last 6 years they're eye for talent and nurturing them is fantastic. As they continue to rise on the pitch the financial side does the same.

Their biggest issue is Bayern Munich, 3 players in the last few years to there direct league rivals sends a message to the rest of the worlds top clubs, it says we are pushovers and unless they change their transfer mentality top clubs will continue to come in and take there best players.

They will do so regardless and will continue until we caught up financially and in terms of prestige and pay comparable wages. People read way too much into these signals.

We have a certain reputation amongst players, which is that of one of the best places to become a huge star while playing positive football in a huge stadium in front of 80.000 crazy people. This is the reputation players like Dembele or Mor follow. And right now, this is all that counts.

 

[Sphaero]

Well almost nobody have a strategy of selling players, they all kind of "if the player leaves - he leaves", it's just the question of getting the maximum value out of that exit. I mean you think Atletico wanted to sell Costa or Aguero? I am kind of positive they would rather have kept them really. As for leaving the team, well only Lewa left at the end of his contract, everybody else were sold. It's just because they were sold just a year before their contract expired Dortmund got only a fraction of what could have been a bigger transfer fees and this cash could subsidize salary increase for example.

Only a club run by fools would use transfer income to carry parts of the wage bill. The wage bill has to be covered by steady revenue and not somehing as volatile as transfer income. It is this type of thinking that brings clubs into a similar situation as Porto (who are not that way out of choice, but because their potential for consistent revenue is too low) and might force you out of financial reasons to sell players, who might actually be ready to stay longer.

 

[ehsanul]

They will do so regardless and will continue until we caught up financially and in terms of prestige and pay comparable wages. People read way too much into these signals.

We have a certain reputation amongst players, which is that of one of the best places to become a huge star while playing positive football in a huge stadium in front of 80.000 crazy people. This is the reputation players like Dembele or Mor follow. And right now, this is all that counts.

The only reputation Dortmund have is to sell players on the cheap to Bayern without any fuss and obstacle.If Dortmund has sold Hummels last yr then they would have got a lot more money but being Bayern feeder club i think its understandable you guys sold him on the cheap to them.

 

[JPRouve]

Well almost nobody have a strategy of selling players, they all kind of "if the player leaves - he leaves", it's just the question of getting the maximum value out of that exit. I mean you think Atletico wanted to sell Costa or Aguero? I am kind of positive they would rather have kept them really. As for leaving the team, well only Lewa left at the end of his contract, everybody else were sold. It's just because they were sold just a year before their contract expired Dortmund got only a fraction of what could have been a bigger transfer fees and this cash could subsidize salary increase for example.

You see that's where you really don't understand, Dortmund will never use transfer money to finance salaries, they are too smart for that. Their strategy is based on scouting well, developing well, increasing their financial power and be patient. They are being patient, they don't care about losing players in 2016, they care about 2026 when they will be a financial powerhouse because of their current strategy.

 

[Vilev]

have you ever watched dortmund or have you just a tiny clue of the club?

we faced the total shutdown of the club ten years ago (!), and worked our way from nearly shutdown up to 2x meister 1x cupwinner and a cl final, now we are clear nr.2 of germany (and leave clubs like your united behind us). what a poor managment! while achiving these things, we paid every cent of our old debts, and the biggest stadium in europe belongs to us now.

auba and reus just extend their contracts (yes the reus, united ran years after him and didnt get him, useless united managment). gündogan were free since 2 years ago and extend 2 times his contract so we get money from this stupid club called shity. when götze moved, there were different times, it was years ago, our wages are now 300% more then in the times götze leaved. we have a clear development. there are no buyout clauses anymore. micki were obvious with talent but under klopp he never showed it constantly, so why we should extend? now we wanted to extend since a few weeks after the last season started, and now it turns out that he dont want to. ok. btw: you ever heard of klopp before us? it has to be a poor managment to get this coach...hummels got his whole family in münchen, he is getting older and wants to be there, its ok cause we got a record fee for only 365days of contract left and we are now going our way with younger lads in the defence.
lewandowski growed to one of the worldbest strikers, we would have sold him to real but he got his agreement with bayern before, so we denied to sell him to bayern and let rundown his contract. was the right decision, with his goals we achieved a cl spot and were in the quarterfinal in the cl.

it seems that you dont know nothing in terms of context or history of the bvb if you think our managment is "poor". you know what managment is poor? if i compare the financial and structural things of united and the bvb, and have a look on the uefa-table, my conclusion would be different...

And how is hearing about Klopp before BVB constitutes that Dortmund have optimal strategy in players retention? Obviously those two things are unrelated. As is United management, which i go on record and tell was pretty bad and actually much worse that Dortmund's or anybody's really in the last 3 years and even in the latter Fergie years it was hard to say whether it was good or okay. I mean administrative management and general football strategy (so football management in Europe's sense of the word, no the UK's), not actual football management or coaching, SAF did excel in latter.

As for financial troubles, i heard and know about them. So what, many clubs were in similar situation, kind of foolish to think that Dortmund is unique in that way. Atletico had a similar shutdown. I think i Reus had better luck with injuries he would be gone two actually, it's not a coincidence than every one else decent from that early Klopp team are gone.
I am also not referring to bad management of Dortmund as a whole group, for example their recruitment, scouting is impressive, stupid to deny it. As is many other aspects probably, i have not analyzed Dortmund's financial much, but their overall financial management and their income increase looks to be above average in the least. It's their negotiations with a players i am talking about. It's just to common for a coincidence that so many of their players are like "my contract is up the next year, and you know what i want to go". I mean come on, i meant no disrespect and don't want to be dismissive, Dortmund's story in the last 5 years is a magnificent one, i actually started to watch bundesliga more because of them. Before that i watch mainly Serie A apart from PL. but i doubt even Dortmund's CEO is happy with how things went with Sahin or how they are going with Mkhitaryan.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Any momentum in this? Seems to have hit 9 or 10 pages since I last looked.

 

[Jacob]

So now the clubs that interested in him are united and arsenal right? We lost Sanchez (or not. depends on what you believed), but we managed to get Morgan (as i believed that arsenal were interested in him as well). And now its Micky. But his agent already mentioned our name as his preferred club and we I believed have a decent relationship with Dortmund. Re Kagawa back and forth. If Jose really want him, I'm positive we can get him. Micky an Breel on right side. Not bad i think.

Plus, he'd have a fellow Armenian beside him in Darmian.

 

[SwansonsTache]

Plus, he'd have a fellow Armenian beside him in Darmian.

Darmian is Italian, isn't he? Plays for their national team and all.

 

[Sphaero]

The only reputation Dortmund have is to sell players on the cheap to Bayern without any fuss and obstacle.If Dortmund has sold Hummels last yr then they would have got a lot more money but being Bayern feeder club i think its understandable you guys sold him on the cheap to them.

Amongst idiots maybe, who still don´t get that we actually sold only a single player to them.

Additonally, tell the bold to the top talents we just signed. Dembele for example, who is rated on the same talent level as Martial. Difference being we payed a third for him (half of what United coughed up for Depay), mostly because our DoF and CEO actually have the reputation of being pretty hard people to negotiate with instead of preparing offers for months and then throwing huge amounts of money at clubs.

 

[Jacob]

Darmian is Italian, isn't he? Plays for their national team and all.

I'm born in Sweden and I identify myself as a Swede and Armenian. He might identify himself as Italian, but ethnicity is inevitable

 

[SwansonsTache]

I'm born in Sweden and I identify myself as a Swede and Armenian. He might identify himself as Italian, but ethnicity is inevitable

Ah, didn't know. TBF with the form he has shown so far for us I had him pegged as a classic Italian bambino that can't be away from mom

 

[GJNJ]

have you ever watched dortmund or have you just a tiny clue of the club?

we faced the total shutdown of the club ten years ago (!), and worked our way from nearly shutdown up to 2x meister 1x cupwinner and a cl final, now we are clear nr.2 of germany (and leave clubs like your united behind us). what a poor managment! while achiving these things, we paid every cent of our old debts, and the biggest stadium in europe belongs to us now.

auba and reus just extend their contracts (yes the reus, united ran years after him and didnt get him, useless united managment). gündogan were free since 2 years ago and extend 2 times his contract so we get money from this stupid club called shity. when götze moved, there were different times, it was years ago, our wages are now 300% more then in the times götze leaved. we have a clear development. there are no buyout clauses anymore. micki were obvious with talent but under klopp he never showed it constantly, so why we should extend? now we wanted to extend since a few weeks after the last season started, and now it turns out that he dont want to. ok. btw: you ever heard of klopp before us? it has to be a poor managment to get this coach...hummels got his whole family in münchen, he is getting older and wants to be there, its ok cause we got a record fee for only 365days of contract left and we are now going our way with younger lads in the defence.
lewandowski growed to one of the worldbest strikers, we would have sold him to real but he got his agreement with bayern before, so we denied to sell him to bayern and let rundown his contract. was the right decision, with his goals we achieved a cl spot and were in the quarterfinal in the cl.

it seems that you dont know nothing in terms of context or history of the bvb if you think our managment is "poor". you know what managment is poor? if i compare the financial and structural things of united and the bvb, and have a look on the uefa-table, my conclusion would be different...

I don't have any problem with what you're saying and there is some truth with a element of bias, but your club has been run well for a ten years and you feel you are able to preach and ridicule the way United is run especially that you ask us to reflect on History?

 

[Vilev]

You see that's where you really don't understand Dortmund will never use transfer money to finance salaries, they are too smart for that. Their strategy is based on scouting well, developing well, increase their financial power and be patient. They are being patient, they don't care about losing players in 2016, they care about 2026 when they will be a financial powerhouse because of their current strategy.

They will not use these funds for funding football related activities, but they are happy to just lose them? Kind a strange strategy. In order to become a financial powerhouse you need best players, so to increase your revenue. Dortmunds increase has been good, but are they on pace with Munich or United?

According to Deloitte's Dortmund's revenue in 2014-2015 was 281m euros, United's was 520m and Munich's was 474m. And in 2010-11 Dortmund was on 139, 367m (United) and 321 (Munich). So while Dortmund's progress in impressive, and they did well in percentage, but that's a low base effect. I mean their increase over these five years is what 142m. While Munich grown 153m and United grown 153m as well. Kind of hard to catch up if you have lower pace.

 

[do.ob]

If you drive up your wage bill so high that you can't sustain it with your regular income then you create a house of cards that's gonna implode after a season or two without success. And you think that's a great way of setting up a club for long term growth?

 

[slig]

I don't have any problem with what you're saying and there is some truth with a element of bias, but your club has been run well for a ten years and you feel you are able to preach and ridicule the way United is run especially that you ask us to reflect on History?

just wanted to point out that a united-fan is calling our managment "poor" is ridiculous if you see the development.
and the phrase "poor" managment doesnt reflect anything, the details of the player-movements and also the context, including the history where we come from.

 

[Vilev]

Only a club run by fools would use transfer income to carry parts of the wage bill. The wage bill has to be covered by steady revenue and not somehing as volatile as transfer income. It is this type of thinking that brings clubs into a similar situation as Porto (who are not that way out of choice, but because their potential for consistent revenue is too low) and might force you out of financial reasons to sell players, who might actually be ready to stay longer.

Why? You just amortize it. Say you have 8m more in transfer fees, that means you can offer a player X a contract 2m more for 4 years. The financial sustainability and cash movements will be exactly the same. And there is not any volatile component involved, especially in Dortmund's case that operate almost exclusively in euros.

 

[do.ob]

Why? You just amortize it. Say you have 8m more in transfer fees, that means you can offer a player X a contract 2m more for 4 years. The financial sustainability and cash movements will be exactly the same. And there is not any volatile component involved, especially in Dortmund's case that operate almost exclusively in euros.

Yeah. And then the other players see that player X gets more and want the same.

 

[slig]

They will not use these funds for funding football related activities, but they are happy to just lose them? Kind a strange strategy. In order to become a financial powerhouse you need best players, so to increase your revenue. Dortmunds increase has been good, but are they on pace with Munich or United?

According to Deloitte's Dortmund's revenue in 2014-2015 was 281m euros, United's was 520m and Munich's was 474m. And in 2010-11 Dortmund was on 139, 367m (United) and 321 (Munich). So while Dortmund's progress in impressive, and they did well in percentage, but that's a low base effect. I mean their increase over these five years is what 142m. While Munich grown 153m and United grown 153m as well. Kind of hard to catch up if you have lower pace.

ok and now you show me the development of the uefa-table ;-)
where was united in 2010, where were we?
and where is united now, and where are we now?

hope you get my point...we are no bank, we are a football club which wants to play wonderful and exciting football with some success...

 

[JPRouve]

They will not use these funds for funding football related activities, but they are happy to just lose them? Kind a strange strategy. In order to become a financial powerhouse you need best players, so to increase your revenue. Dortmunds increase has been good, but are they on pace with Munich or United?

According to Deloitte's Dortmund's revenue in 2014-2015 was 281m euros, United's was 520m and Munich's was 474m. And in 2010-11 Dortmund was on 139, 367m (United) and 321 (Munich). So while Dortmund's progress in impressive, and they did well in percentage, but that's a low base effect. I mean their increase over these five years is what 142m. While Munich grown 153m and United grown 153m as well. Kind of hard to catch up if you have lower pace.

They are not going to catch up with Bayern any time soon, I don't even understand why you think about something like that.

 

[Vilev]

They are not going to catch up with Bayern any time soon

Not anytime soon, but never, you can't catch someone if you are behind and moving slower.
What i am saying is that this strategy sees them fall back more in comparison with other financial powerhouse. So it's not a strategy that can allow them to become a "financial powerhouse" by 2026 as you claim, the match just does not add up.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah. And then the other players see that player X gets more and want the same.

Or you have a bad year, don't qualify for the CL and can't finance the wages.

 

[do.ob]

Not anytime soon, but never, you can't catch someone if you are behind and moving slower.
What i am saying is that this strategy sees them fall back more in comparison with other financial powerhouse. So it's not a strategy that can allow them to become a "financial powerhouse" by 2026 as you claim, the match just does not add up.

Yes, because trends never change, so the past 5 years tell what's gonna happen in the next 10.

 

[2 man midfield]

He won't go to Bayern, even with their levels of 'we don't need him but, why not' that would take the cake.

 

[Vilev]

ok and now you show me the development of the uefa-table ;-)
where was united in 2010, where were we?
and where is united now, and where are we now?

hope you get my point...we are no bank, we are a football club which wants to play wonderful and exciting football with some success...

Sure, United has a bad spell, after the one that was much more successful in any football terms than Dortmund's. United did win UCL and was in two finals compared with one appearances from Dortmund. But so what, Atletico is higher in that UEFA table with limited financial resources as well.

 

[Vilev]

Yes, because trends never change, so the past 5 years tell what's gonna happen in the next 10

Trends change when strategy changes. Something never changes on it's own of course. If Dortmund will employ different approach they might achieve it's goal, but with the current one, that is impossible as long as there are no alien invasion or something.

 

[GJNJ]

Do you get a trophy for being top of the uefa table? I can only imagine the finance department getting excited about that one...maybe a couple of fans.

 

[JPRouve]

Trends change when strategy changes. Something never changes on it's own of course. If Dortmund will employ different approach they might achieve it's goal, but with the current one, that is impossible as long as there are no alien invasion or something.

Your strategy weakens the team at a higher speed and uses more money.

 

[Vilev]

Yeah. And then the other players see that player X gets more and want the same.

There are many ways to negate that. Raise to those who are worthy, use bonus structure, etc.

Or you have a bad year, don't qualify for the CL and can't finance the wages.

That is nonsense, for example United's wages went significantly down without CL and actually financial position in terms wages to income improved or stayed the same.

 

[do.ob]

Trends change when strategy changes. Something never changes on it's own of course. If Dortmund will employ different approach they might achieve it's goal, but with the current one, that is impossible as long as there are no alien invasion or something.

Right. So I guess they are on a good way then, since trends never change, so they gonna be at €2bn turnover compared to Bayern's €2.3bn in 2030, which would of course be pretty close and competitive.