Henrikh Mkhitaryan | BVB confirm transfer

[Fahad Jawaid]

You don't understand. There is nothing Dortmund can do. We move on, if Bayern were in England they would do the same thing to us etc etc. The usual.
It really is shocking!

You really think with Roman, Sheikh's and Woodward they will be able to cherry pick any talent, even with Spurs and how tough a negotiator Levy is, as Ferguson said we often looked elsewhere, and i believe it is one of the reasons we didn't go for Modric or Bale, or even if we did, they simply refused to sell them to us, instead they sold them to Madrid, Liverpool did the same they refused Arsenal and sold Suarez to Barca.

Its not that easy in EPL simply because the amount charged between the top clubs rarely reflect the actual worth of the player and you can easily buy a top just as good from Spanish or German league for half or 3/4 of the amount. What gets me is, they let their top players run down contracts and then when a situation arise like this, they should simply sell him to foreign clubs, and if they are so adamant, why couldn't they keep this stance for Hummels, he was their club captain.

 

[Bestie07]

Whoever is in charge of contracts at Dortmund needs to up their game. They find themselves in these contract situations with their best players almost every season and end up losing these players for much less than their actual worth. I mean, yeah, you can't force a player to sign the contract against their will and their are bigger clubs that are probably in the players' ears asking them to hold off extending their contracts, but then you look at how a club like Spurs almost always manages to keep their best players tied up in long term contracts which makes you feel that Dortmund should definitely be doing better in that aspect of their management.

 

[JPRouve]

Do you think they put the release clauses on their biggest talent in a while willingly? Or let their captain run down his contract willingly? Ditto for Mkhitaryan?

Not every club has the ability to pay the ridiculous wages some other clubs do. Dortmund were in turmoil as a club and simply could not afford to pay insane wages, especially couple of years back when they'd have needed to do it for players like gotze to agree to a contract without a release clause. He probably got a 400% bump in wages due to the move.

When you can't pay a player high wages, they want a release clause so that they can feck off once someone big comes along. I don't think many here realise that Dortmund aren't "poorly run" by any stretch of imagination. They are simply not shitting dollars like United does and thus have to make the best use of what they can as a club. Yet you've gone ahead and made a stupid uninformed remark.

This, Dortmund aren't poor but they are not rich and it's not a big city.

 

[Varun]

I find it strange that they were willing to sell their captain to Bayern so easily but say they will keep Mkhitaryan for another year rather than sell him. Personally I think it would made more sense to force Hummels to stay and sell Mkhitaryan to a foreign club

Pretty sure they will sell Mkhitaryan too. It's just not sustainable to keep losing 30mil like that. They're doing this to hike the price up which is the sensible thing to do. They did it only once with Lewandowski because he simply was that good and they decided they'd take the hit instead of losing him to Bayern. Can't see them doing that for Mkhitaryan when it comes to a foreign club at all.

 

[do.ob]

Agree with this post completely people say we're run badly. But my god Dortmund are a Joke compared to us in certain aspects. The way they handle players contracts is dreadful and some of the main men on there board want to have a long look at themselves.

Yes, just 12 spots ahead of United in the club ranking with half the turnover. What a joke of a management.
Some people here have an interesting concept of logic and reality.

 

[Bestie07]

Do you think they put the release clauses on their biggest talent in a while willingly? Or let their captain run down his contract willingly? Ditto for Mkhitaryan?

Not every club has the ability to pay the ridiculous wages some other clubs do. Dortmund were in turmoil as a club and simply could not afford to pay insane wages, especially couple of years back when they'd have needed to do it for players like gotze to agree to a contract without a release clause. He probably got a 400% bump in wages due to the move.

When you can't pay a player high wages, they want a release clause so that they can feck off once someone big comes along. I don't think many here realise that Dortmund aren't "poorly run" by any stretch of imagination. They are simply not shitting dollars like United does and thus have to make the best use of what they can as a club. Yet you've gone ahead and made a stupid uninformed remark.

This has happened far too many times with Dortmund, they need to up their game or they will continue losing their best players to their rivals at much less than their market value. Gotze moved to the one club bigger than Dortmund in Germany, Kane has five clubs bigger than his in England yet still Spurs managed to tie him down to a long term contract. They seem to be learning though as they have got their best player tied up till 2021.

 

[Rado_N]

What's the liklihood of this one do we think?

 

[cyberman]

Yes, just 12 spots ahead of United in the club ranking with half the turnover. What a joke of a management.
Some people here have an interesting concept of logic and reality.

Well club ranking, you said have said that earlier!
Well done Dortmund.

 

[JPRouve]

What's the liklihood of this one do we think?

If United make a decent offer and make it soon, the chance is fairly high.

 

[Rado_N]

If United make a decent offer and make it soon, the chance is fairly high.

Cool, here's hoping.

 

[Varun]

This has happened far too many times with Dortmund, they need to up their game or they will continue losing their best players to their rivals at much less than their market value. Gotze moved to the one club bigger than Dortmund in Germany, Kane has five clubs bigger than his in England yet still Spurs managed to tie him down to a long term contract. They seem to be learning though as they have got their best player tied up till 2021.

What's learning got to do with not being able to pay gotze a ridiculous 200k a week? Especially back when gotze emerged, Dortmund were in no position to pay him high wages because of which a release clause was put into the contract. It's as simple as accept the clause or pay a high wage. They can't do that later so they did the former and thus were helpless when Bayern emerged willing to pay him 10mil a year, a figure they can't and won't match with good reason.

 

[Varun]

What's the liklihood of this one do we think?

If we want him, I'm pretty sure we'll get him. They won't keep him and lose 30 odd mil, they can't afford that and it's not worth it either unless the player is as professional as Lewandowski who'd deliver week in week out even in that scenario.

 

[Keegs]

Yes, just 12 spots ahead of United in the club ranking with half the turnover. What a joke of a management.
Some people here have an interesting concept of logic and reality.

If you read my post properly I said in certain aspects.

 

[JPRouve]

Cool, here's hoping.

I'm only guessing. He could do a Lewandowski, promise to act professionally and stay one more year.

 

[Rado_N]

I'm only guessing. He could do a Lewandowski, promise to act professionally and stay one more year.

Then you go and pour cold water all over it

 

[slig]

Yes, just 12 spots ahead of United in the club ranking with half the turnover. What a joke of a management.
Some people here have an interesting concept of logic and reality.

thanks!

the cluelessness of some posters here is hilarious

 

[Bestie07]

What's learning got to do with not being able to pay gotze a ridiculous 200k a week? Especially back when gotze emerged, Dortmund were in no position to pay him high wages because of which a release clause was out into the contract. It's as simple as accept the clause or pay a high wage. They can't do that later so they did the former and thus were helpless when Bayern emerged willing to pay him 10mil a year, a figure they can't and won't match with good reason.

But Goatze was not an isolated instance. This is happening over several seasons, half a dozen first team players have forced exits from the club. Clearly Dortmund are a much better run club than we are, specially in terms of player recruitment, but this is one aspect of their management that they should definitely be looking to improve in. But then Mkhi, Kagawa, Lewandowski, Hummels and even Gundogan (He was also about to enter the final year of his contract before he got plagued by injuries) have put themselves in situations where they have the club over the barrel with regards to their future. I understand Dortmund have their constraints, but so do a lot of other clubs but don't see any other being so routinely stripped off of their best players at discounted prices season after season.

 

[Vilev]

I am torn here, i don't think he is a great option for us, i would not want him here in principle. But, given the whole situation, he very well might be the best option out there and for the reasonable money.
Money question is important as we don't have unlimited financial resources. And we already spent much money on some questionable transfers. So if the question is take James for 60m or Mkhitaryan for 20m i'd say go for the latter. And while i am not sure he will settle here, he is a good player and actually pretty versatile too, which is a big plus, especially since it's kind of unclear what do we need more a RWF, a ARM, a ACM. So a player who can play as a wing-forward and much deeper, closer to the side and closer to the middle, he will be a big asset.

My concerns mostly come from Kagawa's move, Mkhitaryan is sort of similar to him, in a quick, one-touch, vertical football t Dortmund he is good, but when it will require more personal skill, will he cope? Kagawa was a complete bust after similarly successful season at Dortmund.

 

[JPRouve]

I am torn here, i don't think he is a great option for us, i would not want him here in principle. But, given the whole situation, he very well might be the best option out there and for the reasonable money.
Money question is important as we don't have unlimited financial resources. And we already spent much money on some questionable transfers. So if the question is take James for 60m or Mkhitaryan for 20m i'd say go for the latter. And while i am not sure he will settle here, he is a good player and actually pretty versatile too, which is a big plus, especially since it's kind of unclear what do we need more a RWF, a ARM, a ACM. So a player who can play as a wing-forward and much deeper, closer to the side and closer to the middle, he will be a big asset.

My concerns mostly come from Kagawa's move, Mkhitaryan is sort of similar to him, in a quick, one-touch, vertical football t Dortmund he is good, but when it will require more personal skill, will he cope? Kagawa was a complete bust after similarly successful season at Dortmund.

Kagawa was good with SAF, why people forgot that part of his United career?

 

[Vilev]

As for Dortmund dealings, there is definitely something wrong there. Just look at it, almost every player leaves them with one year of contract left, or as a free agent in Lewa's case. It's kind of strange, i mean Atletico, Porto, some others they sold many players as well, but not like that.

 

[itso 7]

Yes, just 12 spots ahead of United in the club ranking with half the turnover. What a joke of a management.
Some people here have an interesting concept of logic and reality.

Fair enough but they truly need to improve on that aspect i.e. player retention whilst we do need to improve on things such as talent identification and recruitment.

 

[JPRouve]

As for Dortmund dealings, there is definitely something wrong there. Just look at it, almost every player leaves them with one year of contract left, or as a free agent in Lewa's case. It's kind of strange, i mean Atletico, Porto, some others they sold many players as well, but not like that.

Yup, De Gea, Arda Turan, Felipe Luis and Diego Costa never left for cheap because of their contracts. Porto are a football supermarket, so obviously they don't care about keeping their best players since they are for sale. Dortmund are different, they are not a selling club, they are just a not very wealthy but extremely ambitious club, they will almost always prioritize football over money.

 

[do.ob]

Fair enough but they truly need to improve on that aspect i.e. player retention whilst we do need to improve on things such as talent identification and recruitment.

Yes. They need to increase their turnover by €200m so they can offer top level wages. But it's idiotic to fault their management for not magically skipping decades of development.

 

[Vilev]

Kagawa was good with SAF, why people forgot that part of his United career?

He never was good with SAF, his first season he scored just 6 goals in PL, 3 of those in Norwich game against a team who has been relegated if i am remembering right. And also had just 3 assists. That's nowhere near "good". He had a good, even great game against Norwich, other than that a couple of decent games and that was it. And if we look at top games that year, most of them Kagawa did miss, some because of the injuries, but some because he was benched by Fergie.

 

[JPRouve]

He never was good with SAF, his first season he scored just 6 goals in PL, 3 of those in Norwich game against a team who has been relegated if i am remembering right. And also had just 3 assists. That's nowhere near "good". He had a good, even great game against Norwich, other than that a couple of decent games and that was it. And if we look at top games that year, most of them Kagawa did miss, some because of the injuries, but some because he was benched by Fergie.

Never?

 

[gofelx]

As for Dortmund dealings, there is definitely something wrong there. Just look at it, almost every player leaves them with one year of contract left, or as a free agent in Lewa's case. It's kind of strange, i mean Atletico, Porto, some others they sold many players as well, but not like that.

The thing with Mkhitaryan is that he was simply useless until 2015. There were many reports that they wanted to get rid of him last year, until Tuchel came in and he played the season of his life. Really there was no reason to extend the contract with him, nobody expected him to play this well. In the last few months Dortmund approached Mkhi several times to hold talks about a contract extension, idk what exactly happened but they didn't reach an agreement. So it's not like Dortmund fecked it up a few years ago or something.

 

[Vilev]

Yup, De Gea, Arda Turan, Felipe Luis and Diego Costa never left for cheap because of their contracts. Porto are a football supermarket, so obviously they don't care about keeping their best players since they are for sale. Dortmund are different, they are not a selling club, they are just a not very wealthy but extremely ambitious club, they will almost always prioritize football over money.

How so? Players leave Dortmund in numbers. So clearly Dortmund does not offer them enough ambitious, whether it's football or financial packages. They all left anyway, so i struggle to understand how letting all of their top player, well most of them, leave without getting the best compensations make Dortmund "extremely ambitious club" as oppose to "selling club" Atletico, that was twice in CL final and won spanish league, so in terms of their awards and results they hardly second to Dortmund in the last 4-5 years or so.

 

[Vilev]

Never?

Well once, against Norwich. Other that that he was very dull and hardly producing anything worth a mention.

 

[Adisa]

He never was good with SAF, his first season he scored just 6 goals in PL, 3 of those in Norwich game against a team who has been relegated if i am remembering right. And also had just 3 assists. That's nowhere near "good". He had a good, even great game against Norwich, other than that a couple of decent games and that was it. And if we look at top games that year, most of them Kagawa did miss, some because of the injuries, but some because he was benched by Fergie.

Shonji had a decent first season with us. There were many good performances that season from him. 3-2 loss to Spurs, away at Madrid, away at West Ham. example. I remember thinking at the end of the season, that there was stuff to build on. He certainly wasn't bad.

 

[JPRouve]

How so? Players leave Dortmund in numbers. So clearly Dortmund does not offer them enough ambitious, whether it's football or financial packages. They all left anyway, so i struggle to understand how letting all of their top player, well most of them, leave without getting the best compensations make Dortmund "extremely ambitious club" as oppose to "selling club" Atletico, that was twice in CL final and won spanish league, so in terms of their awards and results they hardly second to Dortmund in the last 4-5 years or so.

There are 5 players, Gundogan, Sahin, Hummels, Lewandowski, Gotze and Kagawa in 5 years. They all left for far bigger and richer clubs that's perfectly normal.
You can't force players to move and you can't force them to sign a new contract.

 

[Vilev]

Shonji had a decent first season with us. There were many good performances that season from him. 3-2 loss to Spurs, away at Madrid, away at West Ham. example. I remember thinking at the end of the season, that there was stuff to build on. He certainly wasn't bad.

He was not bad, but he was underwhelming and basically a let-down, it was not "bad", but a below-average performance. For example, after so-called "good" game against Real he was dropped by Fergie for a return feature. I don't remember anything good from him in Madrid, pretty average performance with nothing to show for.

 

[Vilev]

There are 5 players, Gundogan, Sahin, Hummels, Lewandowski, Gotze and Kagawa in 5 years. They all left for far bigger and richer clubs that's perfectly normal.
You can't force players to move and you can't force them to sign a new contract.

Sure, but that means Dortmund is a selling club, they just suck at it.

 

[itso 7]

Yes. They need to increase their turnover by €200m so they can offer top level wages. But it's idiotic to fault their management for not magically skipping decades of development.

No need to get worked up, its a fact that you don't need €400m turnover to be able to pay a select few a wage of five to seven million Euro. If they redisigned the wage structure I'm certain they could come up with a way to pay competitive wages to the top five performers and not be in financial trouble. The thing though is that its not all about money but other players, save for the most loyal, would be disillusioned if the club just wakes up and sells off the club captain to their nearest rivals and let go of another key midfielder. Selling Hummels clearly sent the wrong message.

 

[Vilev]

The thing with Mkhitaryan is that he was simply useless until 2015. There were many reports that they wanted to get rid of him last year, until Tuchel came in and he played the season of his life. Really there was no reason to extend the contract with him, nobody expected him to play this well. In the last few months Dortmund approached Mkhi several times to hold talks about a contract extension, idk what exactly happened but they didn't reach an agreement. So it's not like Dortmund fecked it up a few years ago or something.

Hmm, but Mkhitaryan was what a 30m euros investment for them, i mean even if he had a bad spell, it's a bad move to just let his contract run. And while he had 14-15 as an off-season, he did pretty well in his first year. For example that was a way-way better first year than Kagawa had.

And okay, even if they made a 180 turn and decided to keep him, they just need then to up his salary considerably, given that it was them who lost the chance to prolong his contract on a lesser terms a year, a half a year back.

 

[JPRouve]

Sure, but that means Dortmund is a selling club, they just suck at it.

No, that's not what a selling club does, they are not a selling but they are highly vulnerable to the top dogs.

Edit: They are rich enough to not have a seller club mentality but not rich enough to not be "bullied" by the huge clubs. The problem is that they are ambitious and rich enough to attract the players that the really big clubs want, which makes them vulnerable.

 

[slig]

How so? Players leave Dortmund in numbers. So clearly Dortmund does not offer them enough ambitious, whether it's football or financial packages. They all left anyway, so i struggle to understand how letting all of their top player, well most of them, leave without getting the best compensations make Dortmund "extremely ambitious club" as oppose to "selling club" Atletico, that was twice in CL final and won spanish league, so in terms of their awards and results they hardly second to Dortmund in the last 4-5 years or so.

have you ever watched dortmund or have you just a tiny clue of the club?

we faced the total shutdown of the club ten years ago (!), and worked our way from nearly shutdown up to 2x meister 1x cupwinner and a cl final, now we are clear nr.2 of germany (and leave clubs like your united behind us). what a poor managment! while achiving these things, we paid every cent of our old debts, and the biggest stadium in europe belongs to us now.

auba and reus just extend their contracts (yes the reus, united ran years after him and didnt get him, useless united managment). gündogan were free since 2 years ago and extend 2 times his contract so we get money from this stupid club called shity. when götze moved, there were different times, it was years ago, our wages are now 300% more then in the times götze leaved. we have a clear development. there are no buyout clauses anymore. micki were obvious with talent but under klopp he never showed it constantly, so why we should extend? now we wanted to extend since a few weeks after the last season started, and now it turns out that he dont want to. ok. btw: you ever heard of klopp before us? it has to be a poor managment to get this coach...hummels got his whole family in münchen, he is getting older and wants to be there, its ok cause we got a record fee for only 365days of contract left and we are now going our way with younger lads in the defence.
lewandowski growed to one of the worldbest strikers, we would have sold him to real but he got his agreement with bayern before, so we denied to sell him to bayern and let rundown his contract. was the right decision, with his goals we achieved a cl spot and were in the quarterfinal in the cl.

it seems that you dont know nothing in terms of context or history of the bvb if you think our managment is "poor". you know what managment is poor? if i compare the financial and structural things of united and the bvb, and have a look on the uefa-table, my conclusion would be different...

 

[do.ob]

No need to get worked up, its a fact that you don't need €400m turnover to be able to pay a select few a wage of five to seven million Euro. If they redisigned the wage structure I'm certain they could come up with a way to pay competitive wages to the top five performers and not be in financial trouble. The thing though is that its not all about money but other players, save for the most loyal, would be disillusioned if the club just wakes up and sells off the club captain to their nearest rivals and let go of another key midfielder. Selling Hummels clearly sent the wrong message.

The offers for Hummels and Mkhitaryan were supposedly around €8m p.a. basic wage with an additional ~€2m in possible boni.
Hummels had one year left on his contract, they didn't sell him (or anyone) voluntarily.
Gündogan was also about to enter the last year of his contract, wanted to leave for two years and also currently has a long term injury. But they should've kept him?
And Mkhitaryan wanting to leave for EL football and a rebuild job isn't exaclty the sign of someone who is leaving for competitiveness reasons.

 

[Sphaero]

As for Dortmund dealings, there is definitely something wrong there. Just look at it, almost every player leaves them with one year of contract left, or as a free agent in Lewa's case. It's kind of strange, i mean Atletico, Porto, some others they sold many players as well, but not like that.

Because we run a different strategy than these clubs. We don´t aim for maximum financial compensation in sells and favour on keeping a hold onto the players for a longer period of time. Let´s say we sign a promising player on a four or five year contract. We use one year to integtrate him and develop him, another year to turn him from a very good player into a top class one. By that time we would have already have to think of selling him for a large sum if he does not decide to sign a new contract. What we do is to keep them and have them perform for us on the level we got them to while being on affordable wages. We don´t develop players to sell them after they established themselves, we develop them to play for us for a couple of years before moving on.

People blast this strategy because it does not produce huge transfer sums while not understanding that this exact strategy is one of the main reasons why we are able to compete with far richer clubs on the pitch. It is because we have the top class players we developed ourselves staying with us and performing for us.

Atletico´s approach of selling big and buying big is also viable, but far riskier. Financially speaking they stand on far less solid ground than us and are one single really poor season or two expensive flops away of running into major trouble. Our way is less flashy but more sustainable.

 

[Bestie07]

Because we run a different strategy than these clubs. We don´t aim for maximum financial compensation in sells and favour on keeping a hold onto the players for a longer period of time. Let´s say we sign a promising player on a four or five year contract. We use one year to integtrate him and develop him, another year to turn him from a very good player into a top class one. By that time we would have already have to think of selling him for a large sum if he does not decide to sign a new contract. What we do is to keep them and have them perform for us on the level we got them to while being on affordable wages. We don´t develop players to sell them after they established themselves, we develop them to play for us for a couple of years before moving on.

People blast this strategy because it does not produce huge transfer sums while not understanding that this exact strategy is one of the main reasons why we are able to compete with far richer clubs on the pitch. It is because we have the top class players we developed ourselves staying with us and performing for us.

Atletico´s approach of selling big and buying big is also viable, but far riskier. Financially speaking they stand on far less solid ground than us and are one single really poor season or two expensive flops away of running into major trouble. Our way is less flashy but more sustainable.

Thank you, that's a good post.

 

[Vilev]

No that's not what a selling club does, they are not a selling but they are highly vulnerable to the top dogs.

They sell their top players of course, duh. I mean it was you who mentioned "selling club" concept while talking about Atletico. And players from Madrid also went to a bigger clubs financially speaking at least.

You kind of lost me here. You've said that "Dortmund are different, they are not a selling club", what i am asking is how are they different if their players still leave and the only real difference is that they get not as much money as they could have gotten.