But playing Maguire and Lindelof is fine?
If we have Alisson in goal it doesnt matter, when the rest of the team is Maguire, Fred, Lindelof,AWB and McTominay.
We need to sort out midfield and a striker before a GK
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Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 58
- Clean sheets
- 25
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 2
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
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But playing Maguire and Lindelof is fine?
If we have Alisson in goal it doesnt matter, when the rest of the team is Maguire, Fred, Lindelof,AWB and McTominay.
We need to sort out midfield and a striker before a GK
When was the last time we made a shrewd buy like that? Id be shocked if we are even in the running
The summer. Malacia £12m & Eriksen free.
Raya will be a goalkeeper United will be watching closely.
Wasn't factoring eriksen in because he was a free but did forger about malacia.
I'd just be be shocked if we buy him. We're more likely looking at your guy in Portugal for a world record goal keeper fee knowing us
None of those players bar maybe AWB are first choice players and we have brought in replacements for all of those players recently, so the club clearly thought those players weren't suited to be our first choice. So why would we not address the final piece of the back line that is holding back certain elements of our play?
His saves with leg when he can get them with hand, is really concerning . Don't know why that part is still not addressed.
We need a new GK in the summer. Simple !
We need a new GK in the summer. Simple !
Casemiro has been here 6 months too and has shown up everyone in the DM/CM positions for the last 10 years, I'm not sure what time has to do with it. And Martinez is a CB. His impact is more a reflection on Maguire, Fred, Shaw, or Sabitzer-or perhaps a reflection of how good he is-rather than on somebody playing a very different position.
Imo his passing is less weak when he has the first choice backline. They improve each other. The very fact that Martinez could do what he did today while DDG was behind him, means that the limiting factor is obviously not the keeper.
As I said before, I'm not against an upgrade in the summer. Especially on crosses, which is a unsolvable weakness, and also passing, which is a comparatively a lesser issue. But shot stopping shouldn't be compromised, and I think people here take it for granted.
This thread is vitriolic and toxic towards a player having an average season, exaggerating his faults. Today was a clean sheet with some decent saves and a nervy moment, reading this you'd think he was worse than dubravka.
On that note of fault finding ..I'll never understand why he doesn't throw it out quickly. Literally a child can do it, it can't be an issue of coaching. It's either instructions or he's scared? It's mystifying. Were the backup keepers any better about it?
But a proactive keeper will force those around him to look for the ball instead of them turning and walking away because they know he's probably going to drive it long.
Maritnez came in did just that, 2/3 touches and fires it forward into midfield, forces them to look for the ball because they know he'll getting on them for not doing it.
Shows them all up. Two players in the door and in no time at all they have more authority and influence than them all including the most senior player in the team. Martinez comes in and demands that those in front of him take the ball, he forces them to by making them show for the ball so he can break the lines with his passing. That made a huge difference in the second half. Maguire and DDG weee happy to take 7/8 touches and play it sideways it was aimless because they don't have the speed or abiltiy to play it.
DDG's shot stopping isn't even that good compared to other PL keepers. So I'm not sure why people keep harping on about that.
It's actually pathetic watching him basically absolve himself of any responsibility back there aside from making saves. At this stage in his career he should be a commanding authority at the back, calming things down and controlling his backline.
Striker then GK.
Thats two starters ahead of midfield imo. If we only got two signings we would be in a better position sorting those two out over any other position Inc midfield.
The GK is so damn important as we've seen when we tried to replace schmeichel. You could also see the troubles we had until VDS came in and what a difference it made for us going forward
Clean sheet but the usual suspects are piling in regardless. Nice.
It seems people hoping he miss places a pass or makes a mistake just to go in on him.
Yes he miss places a pass and could have caused a goal, but Allison and ederson makes these mistakes as well and on a more frequent basis because they play too much with the outfield.
I want my keeper to stop the ball from going past him. He made 2 good saves today and nil nil that was pivotal to us winning.
He's kept us in games numerous times this season and even more in the previous 10 seasons.
I'm not saying we should or shouldn't get a keeper, I just think the agenda against him is rotten to the core.
I would also like to know who is realistically available that would be better than him. I personally see people suggesting the Porto keeper for example, he looks good with the ball but he's looked shakey at cross balls and shot stopping in the games I've seen him play albeit it's only a few games.
I can see us signing one of these footballer goalkeepers and it causing us more problems than it solves. But we'll see what happens. If ETH has a keeper in mind I'll back his decision 100% likewise if he sticks with DDG
Yes he miss places a pass and could have caused a goal, but Allison and ederson makes these mistakes as well and on a more frequent basis because they play too much with the outfield.
I want my keeper to stop the ball from going past him. He made 2 good saves today and nil nil that was pivotal to us winning.
He's kept us in games numerous times this season and even more in the previous 10 seasons.
I'm not saying we should or shouldn't get a keeper, I just think the agenda against him is rotten to the core.
I would also like to know who is realistically available that would be better than him. I personally see people suggesting the Porto keeper for example, he looks good with the ball but he's looked shakey at cross balls and shot stopping in the games I've seen him play albeit it's only a few games.
I can see us signing one of these footballer goalkeepers and it causing us more problems than it solves. But we'll see what happens. If ETH has a keeper in mind I'll back his decision 100% likewise if he sticks with DDG
He's consistently struggling with the ball now compared to his pre-WC form in which he seemed to be coming to grips with Ten Hag ball and becoming adequate on it.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ten Hag hadn't decided yet but we were like 60% likely to give him a new deal if he became like our 10th highest earner (similar to Eriksen's deal) but we're not at closer to like 40% of that happening. Other than a new #9, a wild chase for a top midfielder and probably replacing Maguire (I think he'll ask out) isn't an insanely busy summer, so signing a passing goalkeeper makes sense.
If we add a #9 and you can't just sit back against us as easily, and also just the difficulty of controlling CL games against good teams being a next step for this team, it would stand to reason that adding a quality passing #9 who can sweep a high line and catch a cross would improve us, even if we lose a few spectacular saves per year in exchange.
I don't think it's a binary question of him not being good or not. He can do a job for us this year and we still look to move on in the summer. Hart was similar for City. No shame in it. Him being free, getting him on more reasonable wages and then selling for a profit in 2024 makes sense too, but I think that would be a backup plan for Ten Hag. I'm not convinced by Raya's shot-stopping, so if those are the 2 best options overall, I could see the case for one more year of De Gea if the wages he's on make him moveable at a profit, and we don't have a ton of cash this summer. If we have cash, you just go get whoever you think is the best option around, be it the Benfica kid or an offer for Maignan or Sanchez, though there aren't a ton of names that seem exciting apart from those 3, so wouldn't be shocked if 2024 is seen as a better year and hope a young starting keeper in a big league improves in the following 12 months and can be bought.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ten Hag hadn't decided yet but we were like 60% likely to give him a new deal if he became like our 10th highest earner (similar to Eriksen's deal) but we're not at closer to like 40% of that happening. Other than a new #9, a wild chase for a top midfielder and probably replacing Maguire (I think he'll ask out) isn't an insanely busy summer, so signing a passing goalkeeper makes sense.
If we add a #9 and you can't just sit back against us as easily, and also just the difficulty of controlling CL games against good teams being a next step for this team, it would stand to reason that adding a quality passing #9 who can sweep a high line and catch a cross would improve us, even if we lose a few spectacular saves per year in exchange.
I don't think it's a binary question of him not being good or not. He can do a job for us this year and we still look to move on in the summer. Hart was similar for City. No shame in it. Him being free, getting him on more reasonable wages and then selling for a profit in 2024 makes sense too, but I think that would be a backup plan for Ten Hag. I'm not convinced by Raya's shot-stopping, so if those are the 2 best options overall, I could see the case for one more year of De Gea if the wages he's on make him moveable at a profit, and we don't have a ton of cash this summer. If we have cash, you just go get whoever you think is the best option around, be it the Benfica kid or an offer for Maignan or Sanchez, though there aren't a ton of names that seem exciting apart from those 3, so wouldn't be shocked if 2024 is seen as a better year and hope a young starting keeper in a big league improves in the following 12 months and can be bought.
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Clean sheet is such a hilarious way of judging keeper performances. Harry Maguire has conceded 1 goal in the last 4 games he has started with 3 clean sheets and no one will believe that he is playing well. I think De Gea did fine today in terms of shot stopping but the problem is that the bad stuff you see is stuff you might get away with in a game like this but against good teams you just need a bit more control from the keeper
Feed their anger into my veins.
Apparently they were giving him abuse all game so you reap what you sow..
I really hope he wins another league with us during his time here.
Have a large majority if our fans forgotten what he has done during our lowest times?
The continued hatred is honestly baffling
The continued hatred is honestly baffling
Loved this
fans who dish it out but then get offended at something like this are hilariousWhat agenda? I see that thrown around a lot here in a lot of the player threads. Nobody here is really hoping he makes a mistake. However as @Ayush_reddevil points out, saying he's had a clean sheet is not a great measure of his performance.
Going with the mentality of 'who is realistically available that is better' is a flawed approach to wanting to improve. Part of the mentality should be 'is this player good enough for what we want to do'.
This time last year we weren't saying 'who is available that is better than Maguire at lcb' or 'fred/mctominay' - we were saying they aren't good enough as starters to take us where we want to go. And look, we ended up with Martinez and casemiro, and you see the significant difference.
Pointing out ddgs flaws and how it's affected the performance is not an agenda. We can congratulate him on the clean sheet for sure but also know that we, Manchester United, should be aiming higher, as he can't give us what we need going forward and there is enough evidence to point to that.
The notion that criticising a player's extremely obvious flaws equates to hatred is what's bizarre.
He is literally my favourite player in the squad, but that doesn't magically mean his faults and their impact on the team cease to exist.
Wtf, you try to improve as a team. We are not running a charity and DDG didn't play for free either.
Loved this
What agenda? I see that thrown around a lot here in a lot of the player threads. Nobody here is really hoping he makes a mistake. However as @Ayush_reddevil points out, saying he's had a clean sheet is not a great measure of his performance.
Going with the mentality of 'who is realistically available that is better' is a flawed approach to wanting to improve. Part of the mentality should be 'is this player good enough for what we want to do'.
This time last year we weren't saying 'who is available that is better than Maguire at lcb' or 'fred/mctominay' - we were saying they aren't good enough as starters to take us where we want to go. And look, we ended up with Martinez and casemiro, and you see the significant difference.
Pointing out ddgs flaws and how it's affected the performance is not an agenda. We can congratulate him on the clean sheet for sure but also know that we, Manchester United, should be aiming higher, as he can't give us what we need going forward and there is enough evidence to point to that.
Your missing my point, I'm not talking about those who constructively critical of aspects of his game. It's those that don't give him credit and if he had 5 wonder saves and has one bad kick out that goes out for a throw in, they'll be on social media fire crap at him for that bad kick out ignoring the 5 wonder saves.
As far as your point about comparing mctominay and Maguire to DDG. The difference is everyone could identify any number of players much better than them. DDG is a much superior player in his position than they are in their position and theirs a glutinous amount of players out their better than them and I don't think there's many better than DDG.
I personally don't think a sweeper keeper is needed or someone that's pirlo at passing in my nets.
DDG is competent with the ball just not exceptional. The flaw that he has which can be a problem at times is his reluctance to claim a cross ball.
The likes of the Leeds keeper, Raya and other such like keepers down the league get lauded as great replacements but none of these keepers have the magnifying glass on them and their mistakes are never highlighted. The thing you see is highlights of what they do well. Can they step up to United and so very little for 89 minutes then come off with a great save? I know DDG can.
Indo believe this is a careful what you wish for scenario because I think a big section of our support don't appreciate how good DDG actually is.
Goal keepers must feel very lonely during goal celebrations.
About to become our keeper with the most clean sheets and that in a poor United team for the past decade. The hypercriticism is astounding. Can you imagine his clean sheet record in a good United team? I'm sickened by some on here
Ddg could, when did he last do that for us? Again not downplaying what he's done for us before but when has he last had a game or two like that?
And yes we don't know if they can do it, but we won't know if we go with the mindset 'lets not try a change incase it gets worse'
It's almost the whole 'why risk going for the win as you might end up losing'
DDG has saved us in a number of games this season.
Your also twisting my words a bit with your 'lets not try a change incase it gets worse'
I'm not saying that at all. I personally don't rate keepers that I listed but have been much vaunted as possible replacements. Im happy with DDG and there's only a few keepers I rate higher than him.
So when I say careful what you wish for I'm not saying 'lets not try a change incase it gets worse'. It's me saying DDG is much better than some of our support recognise and I do think if we change our keeper for Raya or Pickford or the Porto keeper or whoever else is flavour of the month we'll soon find that out.
Some people don't appreciate what they have until it's gone.
He's been class over his career for us but he is also just a below average to average premier league level goalkeeper (and no higher) at this point. Nothing wrong with saying that his time has come and that it's time for us to move on.
Is there a worse home crowd in PL than Leeds?
Whats the problem with saves with legs, sometimes its logical and easier to save it with the legs. Especially when it takes more time to jump down and make a save with your hands.
Yet another clean sheet for De God!
Of all the complaints in this thread, that's a strange one given how effective he's always been in using his feet to make saves. If anything that trademark has always been one of his pluses, not something that should have been addressed.
I sometimes see other keepers beaten with shots near them because they're "slow to get down", where De Gea would typically just make a reaction foot save.
Exactly this.
I still remember a Trezeguet goal in dying minutes in Euro 2000 final. Toldo was at his near post and got beaten cause he went down to save the shot with his hands instead of just saving it instinctively with his leg.
Random goal I remember from earlier this season too, at around the 1.20 mark. When you're used to watching De Gea that sort of thing just looks wrong. If he uses his feet he doesn't just save it, it looks like an easy save that was "straight at him".
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You mean the Wiltord goal I think, because blaming Toldo for that Trezeguet goal would be ever so slightly harsh.
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Random goal I remember from earlier this season too, at around the 1.20 mark. When you're used to watching De Gea that sort of thing just looks wrong. If he uses his feet he doesn't just save it, it looks like an easy save that was "straight at him".
Edit:
You mean the Wiltord goal I think, because blaming Toldo for that Trezeguet goal would be ever so slightly harsh.
Ah yes, Wiltord, Trezeguet scored the golden goal.
When you get beaten at the near post you're partly to blame as a keeper. He definitely could have done better.
Yeah, not conceding goals is a terrible metric for judging a keeper. We should really focus on the important stuff like how many assists he makes or his pressing stats...
You ignored the second half of that point itself . Do you think Maguire has played well in the games he has got a chance in ? I am not even talking about passing stats but just in terms of saving stats he hasn’t actually done great this season
Clean sheets aren't even a statistically good way of judging goals conceded. If you want to take that as a measure, you can actually just use goals conceded.
Even without getting into expected stats having better predictive value or the distinction between judging a defence as a whole and the goalkeeper individually, clean sheets are just a needlessly sloppy stat to use.
But the Maguire comparison is a pointless one. A goalkeeper is a specialist role with a single point which is to prevent goals. That's why they're called a goalkeeper. A defender is one of several that shares responsibility, so Maguire is always part of a larger unit that shares responsibility. There's only one goalkeeper on the pitch at a time. I'm taking issue with the idea that clean sheets (ie not conceding goals) is a pointless metric for a goalkeeper. It's not, it's really one of the most important, albeit simplistic.
Yes, they are simplistic but there's also a problem with using goals conceded as a metric. Would you rather have a keeper that conceded eleven in one game and kept four clean sheets, or one that conceded twice a game for five in a row?
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