[NLunited]

Why was Shaw taking short goal kicks to de Gea last night?

A little playing out the back routine apparently.

 

[ArmaDino]

Why was Shaw taking short goal kicks to de Gea last night?

it's not just Shaw. All the teams do that now. Apparently it allows for more options when building out from the back.

For example: when Shaw plays the ball to DDG, he in turn can go either, left(back to Shaw), right(to AWB), Center( to Lindelof) where as if DDG where to start the sequence. He would have to pass it to an outfield player who would have less options to start from the back.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Every time he kicked it long I was saying to my son "straight to a Spurs player" at the moment he kicked it and sure enough, every time...

It doesn't help that whoever we have up front is consistently terrible in the air but it's hard to win a header from weak, floaty clearances like that when defenders get a run at you.

Yeah to be fair it's incumbent on the outfield players to know where the keeper's clearances are going to end up and try to post up in an area where you can challenge for the ball or take advantage of a bounce.

 

[owlo]

Correct me if wrong, but I'm sure I remember him coming out to claim more when young. He sometimes missed or fumbled and you sighed, but he did try right?

 

[criticalanalysis]

Correct me if wrong, but I'm sure I remember him coming out to claim more when young. He sometimes missed or fumbled and you sighed, but he did try right?

That's because he had Rio, Vidic and Fergie on his back when he didn't. Nowadays, it's become accepted and not challenged.

I do feel it should come top down as well i.e ETH and the defenders need to be telling him to.

 

[JB7]

Yeah to be fair it's incumbent on the outfield players to know where the keeper's clearances are going to end up and try to post up in an area where you can challenge for the ball or take advantage of a bounce.

It is, and it's actually something Arsenal have done well with because they have no real height up front so Ramsdale barely even tries to pick players out rather aims very long over the heads of the full backs for their attacking players to press.

I'm not sure why we haven't tried similar because De Gea can hit those long dart-like balls (not with the regularity of Ramsdale admittedly) and you'd fancy us to win the ball on the ground rather than aerially but the aimless floaty lofts are ridiculous and have cost us more than once this season. Palace away being another example.

 

[fallengt]

Blow my mind when he's played for United for so long yet barely tried to improve certain weaknesses of his game.

 

[Isotope]

Bravo is irrelevant in the conversation though. He dropped Hart & played Caballero because he was a better fit for the team. Who he signed after that isn’t thr point; one of the first things he did was change the goalkeeper because he wasn’t suited to how he wanted his team to play. That’s where we are at.

And while they didn’t win anything they conceded less goals, gained 12 more points & finished higher in the table. Despite having a supposedly worse goalkeeper.

EtH is not Pep. Why didn't EtH buy a new Gk when he started then? WHy spent 17m on Malacia (when Telles could be a decent backup) when EtH could get a new Gk instead?

Of course they would improve under Pep. It doesn't mean anything about Bravo was the better choice, because he only lasted a season as main Gk.

 

[Borys]

If we didn't renew his contract this summer, do we think there would be much of a market for him on a free? I really don't think there are many clubs (especially those wanting to compete for top honours) that would be in a big rush to sign him, which says a lot.

I think he will find a club easily. Just not in EPL and not for the wages he wants. But he will be a valuable gk for someone that can pay him high wages (as they're not paying the fee) and a decent stop gap for 2-3 years.

I bet EPL clubs will stay clear though.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

This must be what he was watching under his towel, before each penalty.

Absolutely hilarious. Never seen that skit before!

 

[johnnyteutonic]

I think the issue is exactly what @romufc outlines. To many feelings involved to be objective.
Dave is undoubtedly a United legend. He has been with us through all the absolute worst years.
A lot probably want him to win a trophy or two as a thank you for your service before we move him on. And I can certainly understand that sentiment.
He has always been a quite guy going about his business. As a keeper that is something that rubs alot of people the wrong way. Having witnessed Schmeichs in his prime its certainly a very different person between our sticks now.

But when you get the hyperbole that he is the worst keeper in the league or the best (both things are wrong) its clear its more feelings than objective valuation of the player.

In truth Dave is overall a average / below average premier league keeper who is sometimes capable of pulling out some absolutely insane saves. And with a higher frequency of those then most keepers.
He has also improved on his distribution this season and is absolutely not the worst keeper in the league.

That having been said he is absolutely not good enough if we want to play out from the back. And on top of that he doesnt deal with crosses, at all, which is an issue, especially since we dont really have the best aerial defenders either. Maguire is good at that part of the game but absolutely atrocious at everything we need from a cb under Ten Hag.

If we want to challenge for the league next season we do need to upgrade the keeper. Otherwise we will have to much pressure on the backline and our build up play will keep lacking.
Yes I do believe a striker is even more urgent, but in reality its not either or.

That having been said some of the posts in here sound more like personal hate then a critical evaluation of the player.

I think for many, de Gea is sort of a metaphor for the poor stewardship of the Glazers. He symbolises someone who once represented the best parts about our club and now is seen as a symbol of decay; his game-style is roughly the same as it was when he first came here. He hasn't adapted with the times, just like our club and this ownership hasn't. He is also on absurdly high wages for a keeper (the most in the world) and that is also symbolic of this ownership.

I myself definitely think it is urgent we move on from him.

People shouldn't be looking at clean-sheet stats as the main indicator of goalkeeping success; rather, the modern way of looking at it is how many goals should the keeper have conceded and how many has he actually conceded?
In de Gea's case, in the Premier League this season, he ranks in the 40th percentile for PsXG-GA (Post-shot Expected Goals minus Goals against); this is the stat I'm referring to which gives an indication of a keeper's actual performance vs expected performance with respect to goals saved from shots faced (with expected performance defined as a shot that an 'average' keeper would save). It is an aggregate stat so it represents average performance over a period of time.
As mentioned, he ranks in the 40th percentile for this stat yet a lot of this fanbase still regularly refer to his shot-stopping as elite, generally as a way to defend him. That is not borne out by the stats at all.

And for those that think these stats aren't very useful - those *same stats* are available in his famed 17-18 season and his PsXG-GA was superb there. In other words, these stats give a pretty good representation on aggregate for a keeper's performance over an extended period of time. They show he was fantastic in that season, and has regressed since then.

As for the other areas of his game, once again, these stats also tell a tale. He ranks in the 10th percentile for crosses stopped per 90, and the 21st and 44th percentile for Defensive Actions outside the Pen Area, and Average distance of defensive actions; these are the sweeping metrics.

Here are those same stats for the EPL this season:

https://fbref.com/en/players/7ba6d84e/scout/11566/David-de-Gea-Scouting-Report

And here are his stats from the 17-18 EPL season:

https://fbref.com/en/players/7ba6d84e/scout/1631/David-de-Gea-Scouting-Report

If we do get an elite keeper that is proactive with sweeping, has good box command, good distribution whilst still being decent at shot-stopping, I think the pro-de Gea types will finally understand the difference a modern keeper can bring to us.
Really they should already understand it because we can see how City, Liverpool and Arsenal all improved after bringing in more modern-style keepers.

 

[JeffFromHK]

Blow my mind when he's played for United for so long yet barely tried to improve certain weaknesses of his game.

he is the epitome of post-Fergie Man Utd - content with mediocrity

 

[Stacks]

I think for many, de Gea is sort of a metaphor for the poor stewardship of the Glazers. He symbolises someone who once represented the best parts about our club and now is seen as a symbol of decay; his game-style is roughly the same as it was when he first came here. He hasn't adapted with the times, just like our club and this ownership hasn't. He is also on absurdly high wages for a keeper (the most in the world) and that is also symbolic of this ownership.

I myself definitely think it is urgent we move on from him.

People shouldn't be looking at clean-sheet stats as the main indicator of goalkeeping success; rather, the modern way of looking at it is how many goals should the keeper have conceded and how many has he actually conceded?
In de Gea's case, in the Premier League this season, he ranks in the 40th percentile for PsXG-GA (Post-shot Expected Goals minus Goals against); this is the stat I'm referring to which gives an indication of a keeper's actual performance vs expected performance with respect to goals saved from shots faced (with expected performance defined as a shot that an 'average' keeper would save). It is an aggregate stat so it represents average performance over a period of time.
As mentioned, he ranks in the 40th percentile for this stat yet a lot of this fanbase still regularly refer to his shot-stopping as elite, generally as a way to defend him. That is not borne out by the stats at all.

And for those that think these stats aren't very useful - those *same stats* are available in his famed 17-18 season and his PsXG-GA was superb there. In other words, these stats give a pretty good representation on aggregate for a keeper's performance over an extended period of time. They show he was fantastic in that season, and has regressed since then.

As for the other areas of his game, once again, these stats also tell a tale. He ranks in the 10th percentile for crosses stopped per 90, and the 21st and 44th percentile for Defensive Actions outside the Pen Area, and Average distance of defensive actions; these are the sweeping metrics.

Here are those same stats for the EPL this season:

https://fbref.com/en/players/7ba6d84e/scout/11566/David-de-Gea-Scouting-Report

And here are his stats from the 17-18 EPL season:

https://fbref.com/en/players/7ba6d84e/scout/1631/David-de-Gea-Scouting-Report

If we do get an elite keeper that is proactive with sweeping, has good box command, good distribution whilst still being decent at shot-stopping, I think the pro-de Gea types will finally understand the difference a modern keeper can bring to us.
Really they should already understand it because we can see how City, Liverpool and Arsenal all improved after bringing in more modern-style keepers.

I am glad you broke it all down using the data because many have been saying this for a good minute. I modern quality GK could transform how we play in terms going from defence to attack but you can now see in data that he has basically on one of the required attributes of a top keeper and even that is no longer top

 

[Lay]

Correct me if wrong, but I'm sure I remember him coming out to claim more when young. He sometimes missed or fumbled and you sighed, but he did try right?

Yeah I’m sure he did because I would argue with his detractors that he can actually do that stuff. Seems like he’s stopped doing it for a number of years now. You’d think the coaching staff would have been on to him about it but seemingly no

 

[bosnian_red]

I think he will find a club easily. Just not in EPL and not for the wages he wants. But he will be a valuable gk for someone that can pay him high wages (as they're not paying the fee) and a decent stop gap for 2-3 years.

I bet EPL clubs will stay clear though.

Not sure what Oblaks situation is like at Atletico, but if not them, then he would be looking at a Europa League level team or severely reduced wages.

Milan, Inter, Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Dortmund, PSG all have better goalkeepers without question. Not sure what Ligue 1 goalkeepers are like for teams like Lyon, Marseille etc but best hope would be clubs like that.

 

[owlo]

Yeah I’m sure he did because I would argue with his detractors that he can actually do that stuff. Seems like he’s stopped doing it for a number of years now. You’d think the coaching staff would have been on to him about it but seemingly no

That's because he had Rio, Vidic and Fergie on his back when he didn't. Nowadays, it's become accepted and not challenged.

I do feel it should come top down as well i.e ETH and the defenders need to be telling him to.

He's probably too old for new tricks now, but you have to wonder what in the hell OGS and Mourinho were doing. He actually did pretty well under Mourinho though, so maybe he was coming for more then.

We know he fell out with LVG though not exactly why, we do know that LVG stopped telling players to pass to him so much etc. Wouldn't surprise me if he dropped his pants like he did with Rivaldo or something.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Why was Shaw taking short goal kicks to de Gea last night?

Him and Lindelof. Maybe the idea was to attract the high press and then bypass it with a lofted pass? In any case, it usually fails because a) our outfield players are hopeless in the air and b) De Gea's long passes are average at best.

 

[Red in STL]

Him and Lindelof. Maybe the idea was to attract the high press and then bypass it with a lofted pass? In any case, it usually fails because a) our outfield players are hopeless in the air and b) De Gea's long passes are average at best.

Not watched much of United have you, this routine has been going on for a year + it predates ETH's time at the club

 

[JB7]

EtH is not Pep. Why didn't EtH buy a new Gk when he started then? WHy spent 17m on Malacia (when Telles could be a decent backup) when EtH could get a new Gk instead?

Of course they would improve under Pep. It doesn't mean anything about Bravo was the better choice, because he only lasted a season as main Gk.

As I said, Bravo was irrelevant as Guardiola replaced Hart before signing him. And United did try and sign two proper goalkeepers last summer after the first couple of games before ending up with Dubravka on loan; Trapp & Sommer.

 

[Alemar]

Excellent clean sheet. Several crosses claimed/punched, a good sweeping action performed, one good save when it mattered

 

[Cantonalegod]

Excellent clean sheet. Several crosses claimed/punched, a good sweeping action performed, one good save when it mattered

This thread is certainly quiet after that game.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Excellent clean sheet. Several crosses claimed/punched, a good sweeping action performed, one good save when it mattered

Decent punches yes, but he didn’t claim a single cross. And every corner once more was dropped on his head and caused panic.

 

[Idxomer]

Excellent clean sheet. Several crosses claimed/punched, a good sweeping action performed, one good save when it mattered

I don't remember him claiming one cross.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Excellent clean sheet. Several crosses claimed/punched, a good sweeping action performed, one good save when it mattered

Crosses claimed? He remained rooted to his line. Made for a few nervy moments.

 

[Oranges038]

I don't remember him claiming one cross.

Flapped at a couple. The looping one where he was out jumped and got a freekick, pathetic but also funny that he got a free for being weak as piss. Then there was the usual panic from set pieces, at least one claimable freekick followed up by a corner which was dropped in the six yard box followed by the usual scramble.

Solid enough game, bit of sweeping, used his head to clear one. Other than that it was a bog standard performance that you'd expect from a any keeper.

 

[Sylar]

Nothing new, nothing different from him.

Some ok passes first half, which then gets worse and more into a hoofing method for second half. No authority of the box which results in the chaos we see when crosses or set pieces come into our box. He somehow despite having the advantage of his hands and protection of the ref gets beaten in the air by an opponent, which sometimes results in a free kick and sometimes doesn't.
I think he made a save as expected. But did well when he came off his line to clear the ball by sweeping it up.

It's a clean sheet but again, that doesn't tell the whole story especially with a clearance of the line. But hopefully he sees many more clean sheets until the end of the season

 

[Isotope]

Good game, Dave saves

 

[Alemar]

Crosses claimed? He remained rooted to his line. Made for a few nervy moments.

He punched several crosses for sure. Better than nothing I would have thought

 

[crossy1686]

Did okay today, a few shit kicks but came for a few crosses for once

 

[Zetrio2002]

Yet another clean sheet. He's the firm winner for the golden glove award!

 

[DWelbz19]

just came across this. Quite funny

 

[Pogue Mahone]

just came across this. Quite funny

Moments like that have cost us so many times. If your keeper can execute a comfortable claim like that it immediately takes all the heat out of the situation and gives us the initiative. If they can’t, then a completely innocuous ball will cause chaos. It’s fecking maddening to watch.

 

[RedPed]

A win and a clean sheet and the feckers are still not happy.

 

[RuudTom83]

15th clean sheet of the season, ahead of Pope on 13 and Ramsdale on 12.

Hope he can have a few more clean sheets and claim the golden gloves.

 

[Pughnichi]

Few decent saves but there was a moment when the ball pops up any other gk in the league bulldozes the attacker to claim/clear the ball. DDG instead is more worried about the attacker and getting clattered.

Lindeof was brilliant today and it’s great to see him playing well. It’s almost unfair that he’s been pigeon holed in a partnership with Maguire. Without him, he’s always looked a far more accomplished player.

Casemiro reminds me of Rooney…in that it takes him a good few games to get back to some form. After a couple of poor matches after suspension he’s looked much better.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Much better game from him. Good saves and good distribution.

Some here want him to be a commander of high balls and crosses in the box but you have to understand that that's physically impossible for someone with his body type.

No matter how much gym he does, his ectomorphic marfanesque body will never be able to generate the strength of an athletic mesomorphic body.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Much better game from him. Good saves and good distribution.

Some here want him to be a commander of high balls and crosses in the box but you have to understand that that's physically impossible for someone with his body type.

No matter how much gym he does, his ectomorphic marfanesque body will never be able to generate the strength of an athletic mesomorphic body.

David Raya has a similar body type and is shorter and dominates aerially.

 

[Nicolarra90]

David Raya has a similar body type and is shorter and dominates aerially.

Definitely not the same body type mate.

Probably both are around 80-85 kg despite Raya being quite shorter.

DDG arms look longer also, therefore is harder to generate strength as they are farther away from the core.

 

[surf]

Alex Stepney Day coming up on Thursday, Dave's 539th appearance. Would be good for him to celebrate with another clean sheet.

 

[Galactic]

Much better game from him. Good saves and good distribution.

Some here want him to be a commander of high balls and crosses in the box but you have to understand that that's physically impossible for someone with his body type.

No matter how much gym he does, his ectomorphic marfanesque body will never be able to generate the strength of an athletic mesomorphic body.

Wow. Had to google this.