[MackRobinson]

Posters above are saying possession stats matter in evaluating which team played a better game, I say they don‘t. Whoever creates the best chances is playing the better game. We had tons of games like that this season.

Ten Hag is often not prioritizing possession right now, but chooses tactics that will most probably win us the game. Against Brighton in the first half we had the best opportunities, but less possession. That was deliberate.

Yet some are counting lower possession stats against us in evaluating our performances, even if we created better chances. That is bollocks.

Saying ‚possession does matter on average‘ makes no sense. It does not matter on its own. You could say ‚pressing matters on average‘. No it fecking doesn‘t make sense.

If you control possession but create less chances than the opponent, you aren‘t controlling the game.

Possession is a tool for a team, not a measure by which you determine which team is playing better.

This is a straw man and a poor attempt to save face. What multiple posters are trying to tell you is the team with the most possession with most likely win, and it's true. You keep attempting to dance around this and claim that everyone is saying that possession ONLY matters, which is pure garbage.

I literally showed you a study showing that possession has a strong correlation with the winner of a match and the more possession is in a team's favor the more likely they are to win. You are just arguing nonsense with absolutely nothing to back it up.

 

[NLunited]

What are the 'back problems'?

I‘m asking you that. Apart from DeGea and Wan Bissaka, I don‘t see clear upgrade needs in the back line. Dalot is first choice rb right now.

With training we can improve playing out from the back. Even with DeGea, who can be replaced when we have gotten a striker and cm. He can pass through the lines when the team gives him that option, he does it all the time.

Some teams play out the back neatly without having players as good as ours. I think the issue is mental and requires more practice.

 

[NLunited]

This is a straw man and a poor attempt to save face. What multiple posters are trying to tell you is the team with the most possession with most likely win, and it's true. You keep attempting to dance around this and claim that everyone is saying that possession ONLY matters, which is pure garbage.

I literally showed you a study showing that possession has a strong correlation with the winner of a match and the more possession is in a team's favor the more likely they are to win. You are just arguing nonsense with absolutely nothing to back it up.

The better team will usually have more possession, which invalidates the correlation between it and winning, because better teams usually win.

Damn right I question posters above, for arguing having less possession means we were not playing well. Or even saying we should have more possession than the opponent.

We should try to win, which sometimes means ceding possession and taking advantage of spaces that open up while they are trying to play through us.

You and others are arguing we should strive to have more possession than the opponent, because it will give us a better chance to win. I say that is wrong.

We need to focus on creating good chances. And that is exactly what Ten Hag is doing.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I‘m asking you that. Apart from DeGea and Wan Bissaka, I don‘t see clear upgrade needs in the back line. Dalot is first choice rb right now.

With training we can improve playing out from the back. Even with DeGea, who can be replaced when we have gotten a striker and cm. He can pass through the lines when the team gives him that option, he does it all the time.

Some teams play out the back neatly without having players as good as ours. I think the issue is mental and requires more practice.

It’s not because the teams don’t give him the option. It’s because DDG has no composure to hold the ball or looking what’s around him. As soon as the ball goes to him and he’s being pressed, he turns into panic mode. He has no confidence, no composure, and very panic on the ball, he’s so afraid of opponents high press. We can’t play good football if we keep giving away possession especially for a keeper to give away 20 possession in a game like the Brighton game is a madness.



Another clip when he passed the ball like a slow motion as reflection of how DDG is panicking when he’s being pressed. As soon as the Brighton’s press stopped after casemiro passed it back to him, DDG managed to play the right pass to Bissaka.

 

[MackRobinson]

The better team will usually have more possession, which invalidates the correlation between it and winning, because better teams usually win.

Damn right I question posters above, for arguing having less possession means we were not playing well. Or even saying we should have more possession than the opponent.

We should try to win, which sometimes means ceding possession and taking advantage of spaces that open up while they are trying to play through us.

You and others are arguing we should strive to have more possession than the opponent, because it will give us a better chance to win. I say that is wrong.

We need to focus on creating good chances. And that is exactly what Ten Hag is doing.

The first bolded is flat-out ridiculous. Read that sentence again to yourself and ask yourself how that makes sense.

The second bolded is contrary to all the evidence. It's okay to be wrong even if you think you aren't. The world won't end.

 

[NLunited]

The first bolded is flat-out ridiculous. Read that sentence again to yourself and ask yourself how that makes sense.

The second bolded is contrary to all the evidence. It's okay to be wrong even if you think you aren't. The world won't end.

The bolded part makes perfect sense. Maybe you can‘t understand logic.

Creating chances is what wins you games, not striving to have more possession. Do you understand that?

According to your (lack of) logic, every team should try to control possession.

 

[Adnan]

I‘m asking you that. Apart from DeGea and Wan Bissaka, I don‘t see clear upgrade needs in the back line. Dalot is first choice rb right now.

With training we can improve playing out from the back. Even with DeGea, who can be replaced when we have gotten a striker and cm. He can pass through the lines when the team gives him that option, he does it all the time.

Some teams play out the back neatly without having players as good as ours. I think the issue is mental and requires more practice.

We've had problems against every single team we've played that had the ability to play out from the back, aswell as defend high by pressing from the front this season. And when you have a goalkeeper and a RB who aren't good on the ball, the opponent's press will be even more effective, which has meant ten Hag having to compromise on his methods by going long, which has a knock on effect on the outfield players who have to try and win aerial and ground duels to wrestle control of the game. And like De Zerbi is quoted as saying, he'd rather play out from the back and maintain control of the game rather than bet or gamble on trying to win second balls by going long via the keeper.

You say with training all is possible but this season under ten Hag that hasn't been possible and even under champions league winning head coach Luis Enrique, that wasn't possible. Luis Enrique actually gave up on him because DDG isn't good enough to elevate the system he wanted to implement and he was actually a hindrance to the way Luis Enrique wanted to play. A young keeper can be trained but a goalkeeper who is now in his 30s isn't going to suddenly become good with the ball at his feet. And that's without touching on his weaknesses when it comes to dominating the aerial play, which is also at a very poor level.

Our remaining league fixtures look favourable as far as not having to face teams who press high effectively. And that should give the backline the time to play out from the back. But if a team like Brighton have goalkeepers who are better suited to a proactive attacking brand of football than us next season, then it's going to be a another disappointing season.

Game after game, DDG shows us exactly why Luis Enrique banished him from the Spanish national team. And DDG doesn't save us points but has actually been costing us points due to him being a hindrance towards developing a proactive attacking play style, which is a playstyle that has seen our rivals implement with great success.

The latest game against Brighton again proved that even a keeper like Jason Steel is superior to DDG when it comes to implementing a dominant play style.

 

[NLunited]

We've had problems against every single team we've played that had the ability to play out from the back, aswell as defend high by pressing from the front this season. And when you have a goalkeeper and a RB who aren't good on the ball, the opponent's press will be even more effective, which has meant ten Hag having to compromise on his methods by going long, which has a knock on effect on the outfield players who have to try and win aerial and ground duels to wrestle control of the game. And like De Zerbi is quoted as saying, he'd rather play out from the back and maintain control of the game rather than bet or gamble on trying to win second balls by going long via the keeper.

You say with training all is possible but this season under ten Hag that hasn't been possible and even under champions league winning head coach Luis Enrique, that wasn't possible. Luis Enrique actually gave up on him because DDG isn't good enough to elevate the system he wanted to implement and he was actually a hindrance to the way Luis Enrique wanted to play. A young keeper can be trained but a goalkeeper who is now in his 30s isn't going to suddenly become good with the ball at his feet. And that's without touching on his weaknesses when it comes to dominating the aerial play, which is also at a very poor level.

Our remaining league fixtures look favourable as far as not having to face teams who press high effectively. And that should give the backline the time to play out from the back. But if a team like Brighton have goalkeepers who are better suited to a proactive attacking brand of football than us next season, then it's going to be a another disappointing season.

Game after game, DDG shows us exactly why Luis Enrique banished him from the Spanish national team. And DDG doesn't save us points but has actually been costing us points due to him being a hindrance towards developing a proactive attacking play style, which is a playstyle that has seen our rivals implement with great success.

The latest game against Brighton again proved that even a keeper like Jason Steel is superior to DDG when it comes to implementing a dominant play style.

Lots of points to address here.

Our biggest problems have come against teams that press high, not teams that play out the back.

Dealing with the high press is mostly a mental issue, more than our personnel. No doubt we can improve on DeGea and I shit my pants when Maguire plays, but the others should be fine.

Every team that gets pressed high, goes long some of the time. It is not a bad thing of itself. We need to play through the press when possible but go long when needed.
DeGea had some fine progressive passes through the lines which no one seems to notice.

When talking about Steele in the Brighton game, you should realize he was not pressed, but allowed to play out the back along with the two cb‘s as Ten Hag‘s tactics dictated.

What Brighton wants is for the opponent to overcommit, which we did not.

As it was they fecked up badly and almost gifted us a goal if I remember correctly.

DeGea does not command his area, I agree with that.

In the first half, we were dominant, not Brighton. We created the biggest chances. If not for poor finishing, the game would have probably gone our way.

More possession does not equal dominance, chances created does.

 

[Oranges038]

Lots of points to address here.

Our biggest problems have come against teams that press high, not teams that play out the back.

Dealing with the high press is mostly a mental issue, more than our personnel. No doubt we can improve on DeGea and I shit my pants when Maguire plays, but the others should be fine.

Every team that gets pressed high, goes long some of the time. It is not a bad thing of itself. We need to play through the press when possible but go long when needed.
DeGea had some fine progressive passes through the lines which no one seems to notice.

When talking about Steele in the Brighton game, you should realize he was not pressed, but allowed to play out the back along with the two cb‘s as Ten Hag‘s tactics dictated.

What Brighton wants is for the opponent to overcommit, which we did not.

As it was they fecked up badly and almost gifted us a goal if I remember correctly.

DeGea does not command his area, I agree with that.

In the first half, we were dominant, not Brighton. We created the biggest chances. If not for poor finishing, the game would have probably gone our way.

More possession does not equal dominance, chances created does.

BS.

It's mostly about technical ability and awareness.

You could have the most confident footballers going, but if they don't have the technical ability and awareness to make it work, it's just not going to work.

 

[Oranges038]

The better team will usually have more possession, which invalidates the correlation between it and winning, because better teams usually win.

Damn right I question posters above, for arguing having less possession means we were not playing well. Or even saying we should have more possession than the opponent.

We should try to win, which sometimes means ceding possession and taking advantage of spaces that open up while they are trying to play through us.

You and others are arguing we should strive to have more possession than the opponent, because it will give us a better chance to win. I say that is wrong.

We need to focus on creating good chances. And that is exactly what Ten Hag is doing.

Also Bs.

There's many studies out there that show teams with higher % possession win more games.

 

[Adnan]

Lots of points to address here.

Our biggest problems have come against teams that press high, not teams that play out the back.

Dealing with the high press is mostly a mental issue, more than our personnel. No doubt we can improve on DeGea and I shit my pants when Maguire plays, but the others should be fine.

Every team that gets pressed high, goes long some of the time. It is not a bad thing of itself. We need to play through the press when possible but go long when needed.
DeGea had some fine progressive passes through the lines which no one seems to notice.

When talking about Steele in the Brighton game, you should realize he was not pressed, but allowed to play out the back along with the two cb‘s as Ten Hag‘s tactics dictated.

What Brighton wants is for the opponent to overcommit, which we did not.

As it was they fecked up badly and almost gifted us a goal if I remember correctly.

DeGea does not command his area, I agree with that.

In the first half, we were dominant, not Brighton. We created the biggest chances. If not for poor finishing, the game would have probably gone our way.

More possession does not equal dominance, chances created does.

Teams that can press high effectively are also mostly those teams who also play out from the back by playing through the press. Yes they do go long from time to time like Ederson has at City to break the opponent's man oriented press. But playing through the press and raising the defensive with the high press as the failsafe is normal at Arsenal, Brighton, City and Liverpool.

I agree we can improve on DDG and we absolutely should improve on him if we want to transition into a proactive attacking team without gambling or betting on winning second balls against those teams who effectively press us high up the pitch.

It's true we didn't press Steele or the Brighton backline because pressing them high with both fullbacks also pushed up in support would expose us in the transition. And DDG is again awful when it comes to sweeping. And both Brighton keepers have been put under pressure by better teams than us when it comes to applying high pressure and they've excelled.

More possession doesn't equate to control or dominance if you're Jose Mourinho who cedes the ball to control spaces off the ball. But if you're a a positional play coach who wants to exert, zonal and positional control in possession with the aim of playing forward passes, then dominating zones and spaces with the ball is very important. Hence why it's also important to have technically secure players on the ball to play through the press.

And having a team who can dominate the ball by imposing their game on the opposition, the result will by default be one where it will result in a high percentage of possession. The top two teams are at the top of the EPL for that very reason.

Possession with purpose.

 

[Gehrman]

What´s the transfer fee and wages for this robot?

 

[NLunited]

BS.

It's mostly about technical ability and awareness.

You could have the most confident footballers going, but if they don't have the technical ability and awareness to make it work, it's just not going to work.

I‘m arguing we have the technical ability apart from Maguire who handles the ball too slowly and we can improve on DeGea.

The rest is being brave and as you said, awareness.

 

[Oranges038]

I‘m arguing we have the technical ability apart from Maguire who handles the ball too slowly and we can improve on DeGea.

The rest is being brave and as you said, awareness.

We don't have the required ability.

Dalot, DDG, AWB, Maguire etc.. no where near good enough, it's been proven over and over.

It's flogging a dead horse at this stage. The next logical step is to replace them and find players who can do it and that starts with the keeper, then the right back, then midfield and then a striker.

There's no point buying midfielders and strikers if the players further back the pitch can't play football. It's like putting a new roof on a house when the foundations are the real problem.

 

[NLunited]

We don't have the required ability.

Dalot, DDG, AWB, Maguire etc.. no where near good enough, it's been proven over and over.

It's flogging a dead horse at this stage. The next logical step is to replace them and find players who can do it and that starts with the keeper, then the right back, then midfield and then a striker.

There's no point buying midfielders and strikers if the players further back the pitch can't play football. It's like putting a new roof on a house when the foundations are the real problem.

I disagree with the first part, except for Maguire. Lesser teams are playing out the back fine.

 

[MackRobinson]

The bolded part makes perfect sense. Maybe you can‘t understand logic.

Creating chances is what wins you games, not striving to have more possession. Do you understand that?

It didn't make a lick of sense. How do you determine the better team if not by the actions that took place in the match? Braindead argument.

Creating chances doesn't win games, neither does possession, but it's a strong indicator of the likely winner (what you have been told repeatedly)

According to your (lack of) logic, every team should try to control possession.

Never said or implied that. Certain teams use different cede possession as a strategy and that is fine, but it doesn't negate the fact that the more poession a team has the more likely they are to win. Show me any study that proves that statement wrong.

Since you forgot or ignored what was said:

Nobody said possession always matters or it always determines the winner and loser.

If that's what you honestly deduce from "the team with more possession usually wins" then I'm not sure there is any help from you.

 

[Oranges038]

I disagree with the first part, except for Maguire. Lesser teams are playing out the back fine.

Lesser teams with technically better players.

 

[NLunited]

It didn't make a lick of sense. How do you determine the better team if not by the actions that took place in the match? Braindead argument.

Creating chances doesn't win games, neither does possession, but it's a strong indicator of the likely winner (what you have been told repeatedly)


Never said or implied that. Certain teams use different cede possession as a strategy and that is fine, but it doesn't negate the fact that the more poession a team has the more likely they are to win. Show me any study that proves that statement wrong.

Since you forgot or ignored what was said:

If that's what you honestly deduce from "the team with more possession usually wins" then I'm not sure there is any help from you.

You clearly don‘t understand my statement. I don‘t know of any study that proves correlation between possession and winning regardless of player quality. It would be very hard to do.

Your argument is like saying: the team that passes more is more likely to win. Same deal.

Which teams are dominant with a pure possession based playing style? Answer: the financially doped ones.

 

[Zoo]

Got to the point where I despise him and that’s not good. Another manager won’t succeed with this guy

 

[Kopral Jono]

Off you go.

 

[reddevilchennai]

David d*g shit.

 

[hobbers]

In serious danger now of taking his stellar United career and shitting all over that legacy.

 

[Based Adnan]

The guy is an absolute liability. If we renew his contract then it shows we've learnt nothing and I'm convinced it will cost ETH his job.

Won't be surprised if he costs us top 4 in the run in, again

 

[MadDogg]

'But he makes saves that no other keeper would'

*sigh*

 

[King7Eric]

If this guy had any shame, he'd leave at the end of the season. But we all know he's gonna get a contract, make a few good saves here and there and then cost us in big games. Rinse and repeat.

 

[edgecutter]

He's like a bad smell at this stage and there are still deluded people that think he should remain. Get the feck out of the club you overpaid waste of space

 

[criticalanalysis]

Going to be an interesting thread for the next few days. ANYONE who defends him is a wum. Indefensible consistent, historical, massive, momentum losing errors in loads of games.

 

[Giant Midget]

Might as well wear a Liverpool jersey and sing YAWN for all the good he brings to United.

absolute charlatan was has cost us so many cups and top 4 finishes, it’s unreal. Feck off from this club.

 

[Abraxas]

Absolutely embarrassing in recent weeks. No way near good enough in general either.

 

[Sir Matt]

Just start Jack Butland for the rest of the season. He can't be any worse than De Gea.

 

[Orton]

Can blame him for the loss but at the end of the day it wouldn’t have mattered if we played for 500 minutes we still wouldn’t score. Shocking error mind and just about sums everything up just now.

 

[Drainy]

Put any degree of pressure on this guy and he crumbles

 

[villain]

Should’ve gone at least 3 seasons ago

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

He's the worst keeper in the league.

The only ones worse were the Leeds and Leicester ones but they've both been dropped.

He's fecking shit.

 

[The Corinthian]

He’s awful. One of the main reasons we’ve been shit the last few years. Get him out.

 

[Zoo]

Makes a howler like that then comes out at the start of the second and half and almost plays us into trouble yet again. Does my head in. Can’t take him anymore.

 

[flappyjay]

Most errors leading to goals, I wonder how many more errors leading to chances for the opposition.

 

[DWelbz19]

I just fail to see any sort of reason for keeping this man at the club. Like genuinely any

 

[Malone_Post]

@NLunited @Olecurls99

Hope you enjoyed that. Your boy’s a joke.

 

[V.O.]

Was very, very lucky to not be at fault for three goals.

Absolute fanny when the ball is in the air. There can't be another keeper in the top five leagues of Europe who is as weak as he is. There's no point even saying anything about the actual goal.