[ArmaDino]

"Someone who actually watched those games"... is usually not a good start to any discussion, especially not when it looks as though you've only rewatched the goals reel.

The chance from Diaz right after we scored the second is a ridiculously good reaction save. There's also a solid save from Firmino about a minute before they scored.

I won't argue the West Ham situation, the weakness of these stats are that if you do indeed make a mistake you can reel it back in with enough slapshot saves.

After you responded I had to actually go check the highlights to refresh the memory and yet still couldn't find the Diaz super save that you claim he made. Can you please link a time stamp during the match so I can find it?

As far as the Firmino chance goes, that is a routine save that I expect every GK in the Prem to make.

The point is the stats you picked up imply that De Gea somehow made some insane contributions during those matches, when in reality he just did a couple of routine saves goes against your own narrative: that he is somehow over performing and is at the top of the league for points saved, which he clearly isn't.

In reality it's the opposite: the stats actually don't show the pressure DDG is putting our entire team under. Just that 1-0 against West ham show how unreliable the statistics you pulled up.

If you want the ultimate litmus test: let's ask any rival fans from the TOP 10 this season if they are willing to swap their GK fo De Gea? I can already tell you that you won't find a single one.

But if we do the opposite, most of our fanbase will swap him in a heartbeat for Alisson, Raya, Martinez even the likes of Ederson, Ramsdale and Steele. Only Lloris would be overlooked, but unlike us Totenham aren't in la la land. They know they need a replacement.

Entertaining seeing so many unable to understand gk stats. Very few have a grip on it.

I‘m not defending De Gea, I think we should upgrade eventually but the stuff leveled at him is ridiculous.

Golden Glove: credit is given to our defense instead of De Gea. We have had eight or more different cb pairings and multiple absences/injuries of Varane and Martinez. This is clearly bollocks.

Fact is: De Gea has saved us many times with impressive saves. A fact, not the ramblings of a blind fan.

His distribution has not been as terrible as claimed, but fairly decent overall. It depends a lot on the movement of his targets to pass to, which has been not good enough. Watch City and you know what I mean by that.

A 20/30 million gk is gonna be an improvement on De Gea according to many ‚experts‘ here. Not gonna happen unless we get extremely lucky.

Bottom line: if DeGea was as bad as posted here, we would not have a golden glove and not make top four by a long shot. The criticism just doesn‘t add up.

De Gea will be here next season with Ten Hag‘s blessing, quote me on this if I‘m wrong later.

Peter Schemeichel was 500k and Fergie always bragged that this was "the bargain of the century". VDS was only 4 million pounds.

More recently Mike Maiganan was 11 million pounds and a lot of people argue that he is Top 3 in the world right now.

It has nothing to do with luck, but good scouting. We've been linked with quiet a bit of promising GKs. Just because we're skint, doesn't mean that we need to break the bank for a GK. At the end of the day, for every Buffon and Alisson there is a Kepa.

At this moment in time, any GK that isn't afraid to come of his line in the last minutes of the match to snuff out a cross, actually knows how to pick up a team mate when under pressure instead of just hoofing it, will improve us tremendously. For fecks sake, even mediocre Dean Henderson and Lindegaard both benched DDG for extended periods of time.

This idea that we need the new Oliver Kahn or else the GK will fold under pressure is just nostalgic nonsense. The only reason it persists is because SAF decided that he should rotate the GKs at the slightest mistake. As a result we ended up with the likes of Howard and Caroll who were nervous wrecks when in goal, similarly to DDG and Odegaard.

 

[MadDogg]

If you want the ultimate litmus test: let's ask any rival fans from the TOP 10 this season if they are willing to swap their GK fo De Gea? I can already tell you that you won't find a single one.

Spurs probably would, but that says more about Lloris than anything else. You're definitely right about the others though. Man City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Liverpool, Brighton, Villa and Brentford all have keepers who are comfortably more suited to how they want to play and their managers would literally laugh in our faces if we offered a straight swap, even ignoring the wage difference. I haven't watched Fulham at all bar the games against us, but going purely on stats they wouldn't either.

 

[JB7]

If you want the ultimate litmus test: let's ask any rival fans from the TOP 10 this season if they are willing to swap their GK fo De Gea? I can already tell you that you won't find a single one.

Why stop at the top 10? There are plenty in the bottom 10 that wouldn't take him either.

 

[NLunited]

After you responded I had to actually go check the highlights to refresh the memory and yet still couldn't find the Diaz super save that you claim he made. Can you please link a time stamp during the match so I can find it?

As far as the Firmino chance goes, that is a routine save that I expect every GK in the Prem to make.

The point is the stats you picked up imply that De Gea somehow made some insane contributions during those matches, when in reality he just did a couple of routine saves goes against your own narrative: that he is somehow over performing and is at the top of the league for points saved, which he clearly isn't.

In reality it's the opposite: the stats actually don't show the pressure DDG is putting our entire team under. Just that 1-0 against West ham show how unreliable the statistics you pulled up.

If you want the ultimate litmus test: let's ask any rival fans from the TOP 10 this season if they are willing to swap their GK fo De Gea? I can already tell you that you won't find a single one.

But if we do the opposite, most of our fanbase will swap him in a heartbeat for Alisson, Raya, Martinez even the likes of Ederson, Ramsdale and Steele. Only Lloris would be overlooked, but unlike us Totenham aren't in la la land. They know they need a replacement.



Peter Schemeichel was 500k and Fergie always bragged that this was "the bargain of the century". VDS was only 4 million pounds.

More recently Mike Maiganan was 11 million pounds and a lot of people argue that he is Top 3 in the world right now.

It has nothing to do with luck, but good scouting. We've been linked with quiet a bit of promising GKs. Just because we're skint, doesn't mean that we need to break the bank for a GK. At the end of the day, for every Buffon and Alisson there is a Kepa.

At this moment in time, any GK that isn't afraid to come of his line in the last minutes of the match to snuff out a cross, actually knows how to pick up a team mate when under pressure instead of just hoofing it, will improve us tremendously. For fecks sake, even mediocre Dean Henderson and Lindegaard both benched DDG for extended periods of time.

This idea that we need the new Oliver Kahn or else the GK will fold under pressure is just nostalgic nonsense. The only reason it persists is because SAF decided that he should rotate the GKs at the slightest mistake. As a result we ended up with the likes of Howard and Caroll who were nervous wrecks when in goal, similarly to DDG and Odegaard.

You think we can replace De Gea with a 20/30 million gk, I think that will be hard to do. Get a young talented gk for that price and keep De Gea. We ain‘t spending 60/70 million on a new gk.

 

[NLunited]

We have one of the deepest defensive lines in the whole league. It's a clear tactic to make us defensively solid as a team with counter pressing and shape being the clear foundations of ETH's tactical instructions this year. We have many bodies behind the ball and we often relinquish possession to counter press and counter attack teams. De Gea deserves credit for the clean sheets but most of it is a collective effort in front of him.

His distribution is absolutely terrible. Other than in the situations where there is an obvious free man in acres of space AND with no opposition pressing him, his passing and composure on the ball is shocking.

We've made top four because of ETH's coaching and managing. De Gea has contributed to it but any other competent keeper would have likely given us a decent production also.

The criticism absolutely adds up by the eye test and stats.

Nope it does not add up. 17 clean sheets and somehow De Gea is not responsible for it? Eight different cb pairings. Oh wait, Casemiro played there too, feck.

The midfield was in shambles during Casemiro‘s suspensions.

And yet you claim our prime defensive organisation gets all the credit for the clean sheets?

The eye test should tell you there were a lot of saves that De Gea made that were exceptional. I have watched every game. With a lesser gk we would not be in fourth place.

 

[Based Adnan]

Nope it does not add up. 17 clean sheets and somehow De Gea is not responsible for it? Eight different cb pairings. Oh wait, Casemiro played there too, feck.

The midfield was in shambles during Casemiro‘s suspensions.

And yet you claim our prime defensive organisation gets all the credit for the clean sheets?

The eye test should tell you there were a lot of saves that De Gea made that were exceptional. I have watched every game. With a lesser gk we would not be in fourth place.

It doesn't matter how many pairings we've had. The one constant regardless of who plays is we've had one of the deepest defensive lines in the league this season which has significantly shielded De Gea from his well known weaknesses in sweeping and commanding his box. That has contributed to the clean sheets we've had far more than De Gea himself who's had his fair share of howlers.

And it's not because ETH's philosophy consists of a deep depensive line. The opposite infact. But he's had to compromise on his philosophy a lot this season because a large number of the squad don't suit it. De Gea and our deep defensive line is but one example.

 

[NLunited]

It doesn't matter how many pairings we've had. The one constant regardless of who plays is we've had one of the deepest defensive lines in the league this season which has significantly shielded De Gea from his well known weaknesses in sweeping and commanding his box. That has contributed to the clean sheets we've had far more than De Gea himself who's had his fair share of howlers.

And it's not because ETH's philosophy consists of a deep depensive line. The opposite infact. But he's had to compromise on his philosophy a lot this season because a large number of the squad don't suit it. De Gea and our deep defensive line is but one example.

Yes it does matter. Every disruption matters. With the disruptions we have had, there has been one constant: De Gea.

I think De Gea is a factor in why we are playing a lower defensive line, but there are others. Namely: a shortage of players comfortable on the ball and we have attackers who are excellent at getting in behind: Rashford, Garnacho and Antony.

We also have players in midfield capable of quick transitions: Bruno, Eriksen and Casemiro.

For those reasons, I think the decision to play a lower defensive line has had more to do with our attack. We are good at creating from transitions and not so good in creating chances through a packed box.

I expect this trend to continue somewhat, but we will gradually pin opponents back more often as our team gets better at it, especially weaker sides.

If you meant to say Ten Hag based his entire tactical approach on the shortcomings of De Gea, I think you know that is nonsense.

 

[Based Adnan]

If you meant to say Ten Hag based his entire tactical approach on the shortcomings of De Gea, I think you know that is nonsense.

Nowhere did I say that. Infact I literally mentioned De Gea is just one example of this.

But he's had to compromise on his philosophy a lot this season because a large number of the squad don't suit it. De Gea and our deep defensive line is but one example.

I still maintain the fact we've won the golden glove is due to the defensive line being so deep as opposed to De Gea being spectacular. The stats don't back up the shot stopping claims nor does the eye test and it's telling he's not been mentioned in any team of the year discussions despite winning the golden glove with a handful of games yet to play.

I agree (and hope) that Ten Hag will move away from this approach and seek to establish a possession based system with a high line. If De Gea is still our keeper when this happens then he'll be more exposed than he already has been.

 

[lex talionis]

"I still maintain the fact we've won the golden glove is due to the defensive line being so deep as opposed to De Gea being spectacular. The stats don't back up the shot stopping claims nor does the eye test and it's telling he's not been mentioned in any team of the year discussions despite winning the golden glove with a handful of games yet to play."

We all love our defenders, but our defenders aren't as imperious as we club supporters sometimes believe they are. Let's start with the CBs with season player ratings:

Martinez. The standout of the group, I give an 8 for the season, but I'm not sure he would break into the starting XI for City.
Varane. A 7 for the season and definitely wouldn't start for City.
Lindelof. A solid third choice CB, a 6.5 for me. But he wouldn't make City's squad.
Maguire. What more need be said than has already been said?
Shaw. Outstanding. An 8 for me.
Malacia. He's adorable, but hardly an imposing figure at LB.
AWB. Down earlier in the season, but up now. A 6.
Dalot. Up earlier in the season, but now down although usefully versatile. A 6.

It's probably fairly to describe our defensive line as deep, but that world class. We were carved open three times in the EPL this season and although De Gea is responsible for part of the scoring spree on us, the truth is that the back line fell apart. De Gea has sported some serious howlers, but he deserves more credit than he's given here for the clean sheets. The season player rating for De Gea is about a 7, although FIFA or whatever video games people play might say otherwise.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

"I still maintain the fact we've won the golden glove is due to the defensive line being so deep as opposed to De Gea being spectacular. The stats don't back up the shot stopping claims nor does the eye test and it's telling he's not been mentioned in any team of the year discussions despite winning the golden glove with a handful of games yet to play."

We all love our defenders, but our defenders aren't as imperious as we club supporters sometimes believe they are. Let's start with the CBs with season player ratings:

Martinez. The standout of the group, I give an 8 for the season, but I'm not sure he would break into the starting XI for City.
Varane. A 7 for the season and definitely wouldn't start for City.
Lindelof. A solid third choice CB, a 6.5 for me. But he wouldn't make City's squad.
Maguire. What more need be said than has already been said?
Shaw. Outstanding. An 8 for me.
Malacia. He's adorable, but hardly an imposing figure at LB.
AWB. Down earlier in the season, but up now. A 6.
Dalot. Up earlier in the season, but now down although usefully versatile. A 6.

It's probably fairly to describe our defensive line as deep, but that world class. We were carved open three times in the EPL this season and although De Gea is responsible for part of the scoring spree on us, the truth is that the back line fell apart. De Gea has sported some serious howlers, but he deserves more credit than he's given here for the clean sheets. The season player rating for De Gea is about a 7, although FIFA or whatever video games people play might say otherwise.

Deep as set closer to its own goal on the field, because of, among other things, De Gea's inability to play simple passes and sweep.

 

[Based Adnan]

"I still maintain the fact we've won the golden glove is due to the defensive line being so deep as opposed to De Gea being spectacular. The stats don't back up the shot stopping claims nor does the eye test and it's telling he's not been mentioned in any team of the year discussions despite winning the golden glove with a handful of games yet to play."

We all love our defenders, but our defenders aren't as imperious as we club supporters sometimes believe they are. Let's start with the CBs with season player ratings:

Martinez. The standout of the group, I give an 8 for the season, but I'm not sure he would break into the starting XI for City.
Varane. A 7 for the season and definitely wouldn't start for City.
Lindelof. A solid third choice CB, a 6.5 for me. But he wouldn't make City's squad.
Maguire. What more need be said than has already been said?
Shaw. Outstanding. An 8 for me.
Malacia. He's adorable, but hardly an imposing figure at LB.
AWB. Down earlier in the season, but up now. A 6.
Dalot. Up earlier in the season, but now down although usefully versatile. A 6.

It's probably fairly to describe our defensive line as deep, but that world class. We were carved open three times in the EPL this season and although De Gea is responsible for part of the scoring spree on us, the truth is that the back line fell apart. De Gea has sported some serious howlers, but he deserves more credit than he's given here for the clean sheets. The season player rating for De Gea is about a 7, although FIFA or whatever video games people play might say otherwise.

When I say line being deep I mean where we play on the pitch, not the options we have

 

[lex talionis]

When I say line being deep I mean where we play on the pitch, not the options we have

Ok, but it doesn’t logically follow that a back line that plays deep will necessarily be more defensively sound that a back line that plays further up the pitch. It may…or it may not. An entire theory has been built around high lines and high pressing being more defensively sound. Again, it may…or it may not. It really depends on the execution of the tactics.

 

[Based Adnan]

An entire theory has been built around high lines and high pressing being more defensively sound. Again, it may…or it may not. It really depends on the execution of the tactics.

Agreed but that requires a proactive goalkeeper who can sweep and command his box which we don't have. Us playing deep helps to hide De Geas flaws and makes us more defensively sound.

 

[NLunited]

Agreed but that requires a proactive goalkeeper who can sweep and command his box which we don't have. Us playing deep helps to hide De Geas flaws and makes us more defensively sound.

Yes but that is not why we are playing deep. It is because of our attack strategy, which creates the biggest chance of winning with the players we have.

 

[Oranges038]

Yes but that is not why we are playing deep. It is because of our attack strategy, which creates the biggest chance of winning with the players we have.

The line is deeper to protect DDG's weaknesses at playing away from his goal.

 

[lex talionis]

Agreed but that requires a proactive goalkeeper who can sweep and command his box which we don't have. Us playing deep helps to hide De Geas flaws and makes us more defensively sound.

That's a bit of a strawman argument, amigo. We're playing a deep back line because our defenders aren't by nature high line defenders. Our fullbacks aren't the high press types. Even Shaw, our best fullback, isn't a high energy guy. Varane isn't a high energy guy. Martinez is, I'll grant you that. But Maguire and Lindelof are most definitely and without any question low energy, low block defenders.

ETH has made it clear he wants a new RB to upgrade on AWB/Dalot. He he's also made it clear that he has no use for Maguire. In terms of team high pressing, is there any question whatsoever that Rashford, Sancho and Martial can't be bothered? None whatsoever. Antony works hard defensively, but he's alone on the front line where team pressing begins. Bruno presses well, but even his most strenuous advocates will acknowledge that at times Bruno's pressing lacks discipline. Eriksen is no pressing monster. Casemiro been borderline brilliant this season and he is quick to the press, but he's not a high presser.

Point is, the breakdown in our team high pressing begins with the failure of the front line to do its job both with and without the ball, not with De Gea.

 

[NLunited]

The line is deeper to protect DDG's weaknesses at playing away from his goal.

Umm, no. Our line is high in some games, deep in others. Ten Hag determines how high we press based on the opponent.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[arthurka]

Is Neuer available for a couple of seasons? Hope we get a proper keeper this summer.

 

[Alemar]

He played very well. Unfortunate not to get a clean sheet

 

[Sylar]

Such a shame he didn't get a clean sheet today. Hopefully gets one v Fulham in the final game

 

[Andersonson]

When this thread is quiet, he had a good game!

 

[lex talionis]

What, no new flogging of De Gea?

 

[Stobzilla]

What, no new flogging of De Gea?

If you wanted to be harsh, you could wonder what the hell he is doing with both feet off the ground as the shot from Felix is getting wound up, he does this a lot and it is a technical flaw of his, if he is planted as he should be then he probably saves it.

But we won 4-1 so no point labouring it.

 

[Red in STL]

What, no new flogging of De Gea?

You spoke too soon

 

[dinostar77]

Just realised he won the golden glove for the most clean sheets in PL.

Not bad for the worst keeper in the PL according to his critics on here.

 

[Sylar]

People love exaggerating as a defensive mechanism eh?

Regardless, two games left for the season. Here's hoping for some big performances

 

[Alemar]

Very good performance today, saved a penalty and a few other shots

 

[top1whoisman]

Very good today. Without the penalty save we might’ve finished fourth.

 

[Chicharo]

Another good performance, but he saved a penalty
Hope he can shine next Saturday

 

[#07]

De Gea saved a penalty! Mad world. Shot stopping looked strong today. We'll need that to continue next weekend...

 

[Rustyspider13]

Well done DDG, secured third for us today.

 

[Idxomer]

He was culpable in the first goal but his penalty save did wake his teammates up. He also made some nice saves afterwards.

 

[Andersonson]

Great game by him

 

[Raw]

Mitrovic is shite at penalties but it was still a very good save from De Gea.

Need that for the eventual penalty shootout in the FA Cup final!

 

[ManRed]

His contribution seems better as well last couple of games

 

[DJ_21]

He can save penalties then?

 

[Borys]

Good game from Dave.

 

[Beachryan]

Was kind of at fault for the first goal, 19 of the keepers in the league come and claim the ball that Maguire chose to head out for the corner. Other than that, pretty good and managed Fulham's high-press well.

 

[Telsim]

MotM and deserved Golden Glove. You might not thank me but get the contract out, put it on the table. Let him sign it, let him write whatever numbers he wants to put on there.