Using the GK as the extra man to break through a press and progress the ball upfield is modern football 101.
The fecking issue is we are Man United and we can't do it because our GK, the highest paid GK in the world is incapable of doing it.
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Using the GK as the extra man to break through a press and progress the ball upfield is modern football 101.
The fecking issue is we are Man United and we can't do it because our GK, the highest paid GK in the world is incapable of doing it.
This
All the ball playing stuff don’t bother me but this has not improved all through his career. This is one area he is supposed to be a bully but he just leaves it to the CBs to deal with.
Yeah. Everyone has cottoned on to it barring a few fans who still believe he’s a top level goalkeeper
The worst of it is that I don't even think it's a technical flaw in his game. It's purely a complete dereliction of duty that has been apparent from day one, due to a lack of bravery and authority. A personality failing that has been allowed to reside in this team for over a decade.
I was okay with it when he first arrived because he young. Now he is a grown arse man behave like it.
Agreed. He never grew out of it. It's just who he is. It's incredible that it's been ignored/accepted all these years.
Remember last year Vs arsenal, he went down and turned his back on play as they scored
Then got up after the goal and carried on ...
That was a farce.Remember last year Vs arsenal, he went down and turned his back on play as they scored
Then got up after the goal and carried on ...
Ideally we'd let him go and replace him in the summer but all depends what money is available with a striker, midfielder and maybe a right back being higher priority
Its amazing looking at people desperate to justify wanting him gone. Confirmation bias is rampant in here.
Lets accept we need to move him on he was at no fault for either of our goals, especially the free kick for the second goal.
Anyone who has ever played or coached at even a semi decent level will see what has happened at that free kick.
The defensive line has been set up (as it should) along the 6 yard box. There is space between the defenders and DDG which is his space to claim the ball if it goes in there. The defenders are supposed to defend that ball coming across which they fail to. On top of that its an out swinging cross which a keeper in that situation is not supposed to follow. The argument that he was supposed to come out for that free kick is completely ignorant of the typical tactical and defensive indicators that situation points to. If the ball had been in swinging and gone into the space the defensive line created in the 6 yard box then DDG should have come for it.
So its time to move him on but seriously how about a little bit of intelligence when criticising his play in games. His positional play did not lead to any of their goals, his keeping decisions did not lead to any of their goals. We lost because of other factors. Hyperbolic accusations just get cringeworthy.
Lets accept we need to move him on he was at no fault for either of our goals, especially the free kick for the second goal.
Anyone who has ever played or coached at even a semi decent level will see what has happened at that free kick.
The defensive line has been set up (as it should) along the 6 yard box. There is space between the defenders and DDG which is his space to claim the ball if it goes in there. The defenders are supposed to defend that ball coming across which they fail to. On top of that its an out swinging cross which a keeper in that situation is not supposed to follow. The argument that he was supposed to come out for that free kick is completely ignorant of the typical tactical and defensive indicators that situation points to. If the ball had been in swinging and gone into the space the defensive line created in the 6 yard box then DDG should have come for it.
So its time to move him on but seriously how about a little bit of intelligence when criticising his play in games. His positional play did not lead to any of their goals, his keeping decisions did not lead to any of their goals. We lost because of other factors. Hyperbolic accusations just get cringeworthy.
We are under pressure no matter who we play, even Fulham and Southampton. We're not good enough in midfield who have our own play. The goals we still score are counter attacks. If you watch City or Arsenal vs Fulham or Southampton, the GK'd are not part of the "play"
Its utter BS. We dont have the quality in midfield or up front to be a team who keeps possession. Blaming the GK for that is utterly strange
Remember last year Vs arsenal, he went down and turned his back on play as they scored
Then got up after the goal and carried on ...
That was criminal.
Even this, most people think oh De Gea did his bit, completed the pass. But even the shit first touch then he pea rolls the ball behind Varane who has drag the ball in front of him and his closes down by the time all this happens. Small details but all make a huge difference.
Remember Van Gaal working on this stuff and here we are years later and it's still the same shit. I can't take another season man.
Other keepers claim or clear balls like that all game. Ddg has the least claimed crosses in the league. Wake up
Marvellous post. Common sense had evacuated this thread
He did exactly the same to dalot earlier in the game aswell. Played a 5/6 yard pass to him, passed it behind him to his left foot by the time he had changed his body position to receive and get it back on his right foot he was under pressure and could do nothing but just smash it down the line.
There would certainly be some risk in coming for it, anything that drops in the six yard box Infront of goal is claimable or punchable if you commit to it but if you have to move for it there is always a chance you miss it.
However take the situation into account aswell, 85 minute, 1-0 down, all aerial protection e.g. weghorst, Mctom, Varane off. Free kick in dangerous position, box loaded, quality set piece taker over it. Taken all that into account you know there is very high chance a Newcastle player is going to have a very good chance to score.
That's the time to take a risk, thats the time to come out and try and affect the game. Worst case scenario you miss it it's a goal and you will take the blame, best case scenario you claim it and launch a counter attack that could lead to the equaliser. You want to play for a club like us and be successful, you have to be willing to take that risk. IMO.
It's actually pathetic when you watch it back.
Newcastle force him to go that side with the simplest press setup, cuts off the chance of it going back to Martinez or Shaw who are better on the ball than Varane or Dalot.
That setup from there is also just a joke, Martinez playing that 2 yard pass to him and it ends up out for a throw. Not sure what ETH is trying to achieve with that setup other than to prove DDG just can't play from there.
No.
Sorry but they dont come out to out swinging balls that havent entered that 6 yard area thats been kept clear by their defenders. They only come out for the balls coming into that space. Thats why that particular tactical defensive setup is used. Its one of the fundamental basics of setting up defending for exactly those situations. The defenders line creates a space for the keeper to defend and their job is to defend that line and further out.
You wont find any other keepers coming off their line to an out swinging ball that is heading outside the 6 yard box in that situation. The reason is if they do come out and miss then there are no defenders on the line to cover for them and they have ended up well off their line if the ball drops back and gives an attacker a chance at a simple chip shot. Its all about that situations setup.
There are other situations where DDG hasnt come out when he should of.
My point is confirmation bias is meaning people are blaming him for everything and sometimes its simply not his fault. That goal was not his fault. The loss was not his fault.
Wake up
You have completely ignored what I have explained and just carried on looking to blame DDG for that goal.
His defenders had a particular job to do based on how the defensive line was setup on that free kick.
They didnt do their job. Hopeless defending but you stil want to blame DDG. If the ball had entered the 6 yard box then it would have been his fault for not coming out.
His save onto the crossbar was fantastic but he should have been claiming that cross.
Don't think he did anything wrong for either goal
Don't think he did anything wrong for either goal
Hopeless defending by those known aerial defensive masters of Rashford and Lindelof. Your explanation is how De Gea absolves himself of blame and responsibility by passing the buck onto his 'defenders' all the time. Or in this case the left winger and the 4th choice CB who his known to have a weakness in the air.
The ball enters the six yard box because Wilson heads it from about five yards out mid goal.
In a very similar situation against Charlton in the league cup with Heaton in nets can you guess what Heaton did? He come out and punched the ball off the attackers head. It dropped in-between the zonal defenders towards the Charlton players head 5-6 yards out mid goal, Heaton spotted it and reacted to it and dealt with it.
It's a good ball and it's not an easy one for the GK to come for there is risk attached to it, but we are talking about the highest paid GK in the world it's the sort of situation you want your GK to take care of, it's the sort you would expect top level GK's to take care of.
I've had a look at the second goal again and I would actually say De Gea could be doing quite a lot more in hindsight. If you look at where Wilson heads the ball, it's not that far away from our goal. Sure, maybe it's harsh but top class keepers like Alisson and Nick Pope are frequently claiming crosses that go into that area.
De Gea is the most well-paid goalkeeper in world football. It's ridiculous that he gets a pass from some people for being bad at pretty much everything except shot-stopping, and honestly not that exceptional at shot-stopping any more either, just because he sometimes makes a great reflex save.
De Gea is the most well-paid goalkeeper in world football. It's ridiculous that he gets a pass from some people for being bad at pretty much everything except shot-stopping, and honestly not that exceptional at shot-stopping any more either, just because he sometimes makes a great reflex save.
On the first, can he do better on the high loopy cross to the back post? Not really
On the knock back? Maybe if he reads the situation better, there's only one place that ball is going and that's knocked back across goal.
On the second. He should be more dominant, seeing as he's got only Lindelof as a half decent defender in the air, anticipate the ball to come there and be ready to deal with it, like most goalkeepers would.
But, he won't never has, never will.
The amount if times the defenders actually have to drop back into the 6 yard box to defend is criminal at this level.
Oh since youre here and completely ignored, ill post it again, since you brought it up:
It's a ddg thread. Should he be immune to criticism in his thread because others are crap? That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard
The fact you have to overstate things to defend ddg just shows how inadequate he is.
So again, same question since you ignored it (now twice)
Who has come on here and blamed our team performance on ddg? You made the statement so im asking you who has done it?
He really needs to go. I don't care that He made some good saves Yesterday.,He should be coming off his line to claim the ball from corners and crosses.He is way too passive. His distribution, his positioning, his passing is terrible. How many times has he been beaten at his near post?
This is the key point. It's really obvious when watching us compared to a side with an aerially dominant goalkeeper, such as Nick Pope.
Crosses into the six yard area pretty much never trouble Newcastle because Pope has it under lock. By contrast, if a United defender doesn't deal with a cross into the six yard area, it's almost guaranteed to lead to a great chance for the opposition if they have a decent attacker in there.
I don't think anyone is blaming him for the team's performance. That said, given how dreadful everyone else was, as well as the fact that ddg made a number of good saves and was hung out to dry for the goals by terrible defending, it's just depressing to see the usual suspects popping up to have a go. They'll just use absolutely any pretext to have a pop, regardless of how the rest of the team performs he's the one that'll earn their ire. It's agenda posting at its most basic.
Right, but Olecurls said:
So im asking him who did that?
But as to your point, everybody else was dreadful, I agree, but why should some saves mean hes free from criticism? It is a performance thread for him, so people are right to criticise him when a save is being made due to his own deficiencies in the first place. And just because people are pointing it out doesnt make it an agenda. that word is thrown out so much on here (and then you see it in other threads when the performances are analysed).
Like above, DDGs pass to Varane sets up the beginning of the issues leading to the goal. Just because its discussed here doesnt mean Varanes part,or Mctominays part arent discussed in their thread, (but it just means they arent in this thread as its not the right place).
The 'real agenda; is the ones who just defend him or any player no matter what despite evidence to the contrary.
Yeah, even if you just look at the setup from set pieces.
The Corner he tips onto the bar. 6 Utd players + DDG are in the 6 yard box, ball drops in there, 2 Newcastle players, 1 wins the header. Ends up being a scramble from what should be an easy high claim.
The Free Kick - 5 Utd players + DDG are in the 6 yard box. 2 Newcastle players, Wilson wins the header and scores.
In both situations, all 10 outfield players are in the box. So, even if he somehow magically starts claiming these crosses, there's not even any chance of a counter because everyone's in the box to stave off the inevitable scramble.
If you have a dominant keeper who will claim those, teams will stop ploughing balls in there and all of a sudden defending set pieces becomes much easier. Defenders can focus on playing their men rather than focus on dealing with the ball because they are confident the keeper will deal with it.
What else happens when you have a dominant keeper is you need less players in the box to defend, you can afford to leave a couple of players higher up and have a chance to play on the counter when the keeper does claim the ball. This also forces the other team to put less bodies in the box, because they need to sit a few back to stop any potential counter attack.
No my explanation is of how that particular scenario is coached and the principles behind that particular tactic.
My whole point is that people are so desperate to kick DDG that their confirmation bias is clouding their judgement so much they twist what happens to fit. In that game he wasnt at fault for the goals and his general play wasnt why we lost.
For the record I think its time for us to replace him.
Please come up with an example where any GK when he has a defensive line set at his 6 yard line and that defensive line has left his 6 yard box empty will come out to attempt to collect a cross that is out swinging. You wont be able to. Lots of you simply dont understand the fundamental defensive system and principles involved in that particular free kick and keep repeating the same incorrect ideas.
Allison and Poe do not come out to attempt to collect an outswinging cross outside their 6 yard box from that position of free kick. It doesnt happen. You are getting your situations confused.
You are 100% wrong. On the second goal, it is an outswinger, so the keeper should be off his line. Instead, De Gea is standing on his line. He should be prepared to deal with anything that is in his 6. If he is positioned properly, it is dealt with easily. In fact, I will go as far as to say that if I was in goal they wouldn't have scored there
No I am not 100 % wrong. i coached this stuff for years and played a bit.
So let me take you through the principles involved.
Firstly its defending a freekick out wide which means the off side rule comes into play and enables defending teams to use their defenders to set a line. Exactly what we did. We set the line at the 6 yard line. That enables the defending team to make space for the keeper to defend. Anything isnde the 6 yard box is his responsibility. There are no bodies to fight through to get the ball which is why its his area.
The defenders on the 6 yard line defend the cross if its an out swinger, the goalkeeper if its an in swinger, which is exactly what happened.
The keeper does not come out for an out swinger because this takes him well off his line which means the goal is vulnerable if it drops to an attacker in the penalty box or outside it. If it was a corner there would be defenders on the goal line to cover the keeper heading out.
Very simple principles that have been worked out for decades.
Out swinging cross from a wide free kick is not the one keepers attack. In swinging yes. The only time DDG should go for the ball in that freekick is if its a poorly placed out swinger that comes over inside the 6 yard box or if its an in swinger.
He has to be on his line when the kick is taken because he doesnt know where the cross is going to be sent in until its in the air.
Basic fundamentals of defending.
Feel free to pull people up on minutae to point score if that's your bag - I'll stay out of it.
As to your point, it doesn't mean that he's exempt from criticism but you get the same people piling on in here regardless of what's actually happened during the game parroting the same old fart around DDG's weaknesses. Weaknesses which most, I think, would agree he has. If you don't read up and see any agenda posting, taking the rest of the thread into account, then I don't know what to say to you.
I mean sure, maybe I'm being harsh on that specific goal. Rewatching it, it's a wicked cross by Trippier so it certainly wouldn't be easy to deal with. I'm no expert, though, but I flat out think you're wrong to say that Pope or Alisson simply do not deal with situations like that though. As good as the cross was, it wasn't whipped in and it was NOT, as you claim, outside of De Gea's six yard box. It was well within it.
The general point still stands though that our defenders so often crowd the penalty area defending set pieces and that is because De Gea is atrocious at dealing with crosses. Factor in that he's also not very good at playing out from the back, and that his shot-stopping is not nearly as exceptional as people make it out to be, and it doesn't paint a particularly pretty picture of our goalkeeper situation right now.
If you were coaching goalkeepers not to come for balls into their six yard box simply because they were outswingers and no other qualified coach ever pulled you up on that then you have me speechless. It's not only horrendously bad advice, it is plainly wrong.
It's largely redundant because it doesn't matter whether it's an outswinger or an inswinger, our Dave stays on his line. But feck me I hope you're not coaching people any more.
Im not pulling people up on it, im challenging him. There is a huge difference. It would be like me saying 'all DDG defenders in here are just lovers of him and are deflecting blame on to others to defend his bad performances'
Nobody is saying that but if I make that statement, i would be rightly called out on it since I made the statement.
Sure you can stay out of it, you werent the one that made the initial statement (although its nice of you to stay out of it having involved yourself in it in the first place
)Again, random key phrases like point scoring, agendas, etc. Why are people taking this so personally?
Likewise, people cant defend DDG so just come in here and always point 'why are people piling on him all the time'. Dont you see the ridiculousness of it all from your own statements?
We have changed defenders, fullbacks and midfielders in front of him since 2018 but we keep conceding more goals than expected for a supposedly top team. This is going to be the 4th season in the last 5 we concede more than 40 goals in the league.
He has been a huge problem for years and if Ten Hag keeps him as our no.1 keeper, he will most likely fail and imo he had already made a mistake going into this season with him.
He has been a huge problem for years and if Ten Hag keeps him as our no.1 keeper, he will most likely fail and imo he had already made a mistake going into this season with him.
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