[NZT-One]

I have been saying this all the time. I always mention it whenever I'm having a debate with mates in the pub when they say Odengaard or KDB. I do be whinding them up, though! Don't actually think he's better than them but I use it as ammo. I'm only on this forum a few weeks (reading for years on and off) so you may or may not have seen me post about that before.

That always comes up about him. Does when I'm chatting to people anyway. He has given the ball away a lot, I won't argue against that. My point is he clearly is our main player for creating chances. Chances aren't taken many times from his passes but that's not Bruno's fault. When he was subbed off against Brighton, the whole team fell apart. We stopped playing football. I don't understand why people say he has no influence.

Mate, you really have to learn to detect irony and sarcasm.

Incidentally, his chance creation stats have been really poor in the first 3 games. But his pass completion is higher than Ødegaard and Palmer's, so according to some that must mean that he's good now

According to this statement, you either don't read correctly or don't understand the main point of such arguments. I mean, at some point it really starts to look weird on you to pull that strawman on a regular basis in debates - many times, people have explained, that it isn't about having 86% against 82%, it is about his risk management - people are fine when only 50% of his passes in the final third come off, but 80% in buildup can cause problems and increase pressure on our own team.
It isn't that hard to comprehend, if you don't agree, thats fine. But it is tedious to see that argument misrepresented all the time.

 

[Buster15]

Every midfield with Bruno in it is effectively a midfield 2 +Bruno. I agree we need to be stronger there.

If we are building the midfield around Mainoo (what seems to be the best strategy we can go for), we better surround him with energy and athletism. So, Ugarte and Mount is a good shout.

Would agree with this. Unfortunately, Bruno is not disciplined enough. He doesn't hold his position in midfield and wanders off chasing shadows.

 

[Pickle85]

Why doesn't he believe the team can win the league? The manager is entering his third season having spent over 500 million pounds. 3 games in and our aim is now top 4? The captain of the team has already given up on the league after 3 games? What was the purpose of his statement if not to lower expectations?

Because they can't. Do YOU believe we can win the league?

He says 'we can win the league' and he's roasted when we're nowhere near, he says we aren't there yet and he's roasted for 'giving up'. Man can't win with some people.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Because they can't. Do YOU believe we can win the league?

He says 'we can win the league' and he's roasted when we're nowhere near, he says we aren't there yet and he's roasted for 'giving up'. Man can't win with some people.

Until we're mathematically out of it of course we can win the league. Even if you don't think we can the only purpose of saying so is to lower expectations. Don't judge us with such high standards, we're not that good. What a loser thing to hear from your captain at the start of the season. If he had said we can win the league the roasting would have come mainly from oppo fans not his own. Most United fans would understand that's what a United captain is supposed to say. If ETH is asked in the presser if he thinks we can win the league, you can bet he will give a generic answer like " We are trying to win every competition we are involved in" because even he knows what the supporters expect from their representatives.

 

[Pickle85]

Until we're mathematically out of it of course we can win the league. Even if you don't think we can the only purpose of saying so is to lower expectations. Don't judge us with such high standards, we're not that good. What a loser thing to hear from your captain at the start of the season. If he had said we can win the league the roasting would have come mainly from oppo fans not his own. Most United fans would understand that's what a United captain is supposed to say. If ETH is asked in the presser if he thinks we can win the league, you can bet he will give a generic answer like " We are trying to win every competition we are involved in" because even he knows what the supporters expect from their representatives.

No, the purpose of saying so isn't to lower expectations, it's to acknowledge a reality. All this 'true united captains should say we can win the league' after we've lost two of our first three is nonsense. All we'd have heard from many is 'he's absolutely deluded' followed by a bunch of wenger emojis. He's saying 'I know we aren't where we should be but I'm here for the long haul to try to change that'. There's literally no incentive for him to try to lower united fans' expectations; we've been poor for a decade, nobody expects us to win the league. People like you are killing him for saying what 99% of united fans know and agree with.

 

[Dominos]

It was literally just a one year extension you wet-wipes.

We already had him on a 2+1 deal. Why would we need him secured for 4 years at a higher wage, instead of 3 at his existing wage?

 

[Desert Eagle]

No, the purpose of saying so isn't to lower expectations, it's to acknowledge a reality. All this 'true united captains should say we can win the league' after we've lost two of our first three is nonsense. All we'd have heard from many is 'he's absolutely deluded' followed by a bunch of wenger emojis. He's saying 'I know we aren't where we should be but I'm here for the long haul to try to change that'. There's literally no incentive for him to try to lower united fans' expectations; we've been poor for a decade, nobody expects us to win the league. People like you are killing him for saying what 99% of united fans know and agree with.

Acknowledge a reality, like Moyes saying we are trying to be more like City? Why did he get hammered for saying that? The incentive is to reduce pressure and explain away poor performances. If he wants to acknowledge reality so much he can say I've been awful to start the season since signing my extension and I need to play much better for the team to have any chance of achieving anything. That's what a leader does, take the weight of responsibility on themselves. Cowards like Bruno say shit like yeah we aren't supposed to challenge for the league anyways taking the spotlight away from his own crap performances. Next time we play City or Liverpool away maybe you'd be fine with Bruno coming out pre game and saying "We will try our best not to get destroyed but we aren't as good as them so we probably will " According to you that's something 99% of United fans agree with so why can't the captain just come out and say it? Because it's bad PR, it makes you look like a loser and the club incompetent. It's giving up before the match has been played just like Bruno is giving up on the title before the season has gone past the first month.

 

[Pickle85]

Acknowledge a reality, like Moyes saying we are trying to be more like City? Why did he get hammered for saying that? The incentive is to reduce pressure and explain away poor performances. If he wants to acknowledge reality so much he can say I've been awful to start the season since signing my extension and I need to play much better for the team to have any chance of achieving anything. That's what a leader does, take the weight of responsibility on themselves. Cowards like Bruno say shit like yeah we aren't supposed to challenge for the league anyways taking the spotlight away from his own crap performances. Next time we play City or Liverpool away maybe you'd be fine with Bruno coming out pre game and saying "We will try our best not to get destroyed but we aren't as good as them so we probably will " According to you that's something 99% of United fans agree with so why can't the captain just come out and say it? Because it's bad PR, it makes you look like a loser and the club incompetent. It's giving up before the match has been played just like Bruno is giving up on the title before the season has gone past the first month.

There's no point in discussing Bruno with you, as you'll always take the worst read on a situation. He's absolutely not a coward and one of a few united players that can certainly not be accused of being so. It's an embarrassing accusation for you to make as a united fan and shows your actual agenda up. As for your belief that he should have slammed his own performances, so you know what the question he was answering was?

Re the bolded, it's a dumb comparison as winning (or even not getting 'destroyed') in a one off game is much easier/more realistic than an average squad maintaining title winning form for a whole season. It's why we don't see teams like Ranieri's Leicester winning the league more regularly. If you can't see the difference between the two situations you're beyond help.

I'm done discussing him with you. Your agenda is clear every single time and it's absolutely pointless. You'll look for the negative in everything he does.

 

[Desert Eagle]

There's no point in discussing Bruno with you, as you'll always take the worst read on a situation. He's absolutely not a coward and one of a few united players that can certainly not be accused of being so. It's an embarrassing accusation for you to make as a united fan and shows your actual agenda up. As for your belief that he should have slammed his own performances, so you know what the question he was answering was?

Re the bolded, it's a dumb comparison as winning (or even not getting 'destroyed') in a one off game is much easier/more realistic than an average squad maintaining title winning form for a whole season. It's why we don't see teams like Ranieri's Leicester winning the league more regularly. If you can't see the difference between the two situations you're beyond help.

I'm done discussing him with you. Your agenda is clear every single time and it's absolutely pointless. You'll look for the negative in everything he does.

Says the guy who defends him like he's your godfather. Your point wasn't that something is "much easier/more realistic", it's that people are killing him for things 99% of united fans know and agree with. So you clearly can see a distinction between saying something most people agree with and whether or not saying that thing is helpful to what you're trying to achieve. You yourself gave an example where it is possible for a team like Leicester to win the league but suddenly it's completely normal for a United captain to write off his teams chances three games in. It's clearly not about acknowledging a reality because the reality is we still have a chance no matter how low, it's about Bruno saying what he thinks will reduce the pressure on himself and if you want to be generous the players (especially the young ones) in the team. My agenda is simple, I want what's best for my team. I don't feel any special attachment to Bruno, he's done less for the badge than players like fletcher and Brown let alone actual legends of the club so I don't treat him as some special untouchable. If you want to do that feel free but more and more people are seeing Bruno for what he is. Not that good.

 

[Pickle85]

Says the guy who defends him like he's your godfather. Your point wasn't that something is "much easier/more realistic", it's that people are killing him for things 99% of united fans know and agree with. So you clearly can see a distinction between saying something most people agree with and whether or not saying that thing is helpful to what you're trying to achieve. You yourself gave an example where it is possible for a team like Leicester to win the league but suddenly it's completely normal for a United captain to write off his teams chances three games in. It's clearly not about acknowledging a reality because the reality is we still have a chance no matter how low, it's about Bruno saying what he thinks will reduce the pressure on himself and if you want to be generous the players (especially the young ones) in the team. My agenda is simple, I want what's best for my team. I don't feel any special attachment to Bruno, he's done less for the badge than players like fletcher and Brown let alone actual legends of the club so I don't treat him as some special untouchable. If you want to do that feel free but more and more people are seeing Bruno for what he is. Not that good.

No, it was both. And again, you're stating that Bruno said this for selfish reasons as if it's a fact which it's not. You have no idea about his motivations. And again, do you know what the context was for this answer? What question he was asked?

As for your reasoning that it's not him being realistic simply because mathematically we still have a chance of winning the league, would you feel comfortable saying, if asked, that today you won't lose your job? Or get hit by a car? Mathematically it's possible but highly improbable.

Another, more positive, read on his reasoning is that it's him inciting the management, board and his teammates to improve their situation. But obviously you wouldn't countenance that because you have an agenda against him.

 

[MDFC Manager]

We already had him on a 2+1 deal. Why would we need him secured for 4 years at a higher wage, instead of 3 at his existing wage?

It a poor call. The situation could have been revisited next year at the earliest. Its not like the club was fending off offers non stop.

 

[Desert Eagle]

No, it was both. And again, you're stating that Bruno said this for selfish reasons as if it's a fact which it's not. You have no idea about his motivations. And again, do you know what the context was for this answer? What question he was asked?

As for your reasoning that it's not him being realistic simply because mathematically we still have a chance of winning the league, would you feel comfortable saying, if asked, that today you won't lose your job? Or get hit by a car? Mathematically it's possible but highly improbable.

Another, more positive, read on his reasoning is that it's him inciting the management, board and his teammates to improve their situation. But obviously you wouldn't countenance that because you have an agenda against him.

If you think saying "I said it during the contract extension, it's a long-term commitment. I'm fully aware that United are not ready to win the league at the moment. The minimum objective is to finish in the top four." is a statement designed to incite the management, board and teammates then our views on the meaning of the word inciting are worlds apart. That is the most bland and casual statement possible. It's basically "It's going to take a while and I'll be here." There is no urgency, no sense of this is unacceptable.

If I was asked am I going to lose my job today? I'd say probably not. My answer has no affect on the outcome though. Bruno as the captain of a football team coming out after three games and saying we are not ready to win the league has an effect however small on the dressing room. What if Amad or Garnacho being young and dumb actually came into the season thinking if I go crazy this year maybe we can win the league. I mean we've seen Leicester do it.

And lastly I'm going to remind you how all this started:

UnofficialDevil said Manchester United should always be aiming to win the league. That should be the mindset of our captain. Doesn't matter if we can, that should be the mindset.

To which you replied so you'd rather he just spout empty platitudes that even he doesn't believe? For what purpose, if it's impossible? Surely better to be realistic.

I agree with UD. I don't want the United captain coming out after three games talking about top 4 and I'm fully aware we can't win the league. You don't just represent this team and these players, you represent the badge and the history and being the most successful club in England. You're Manchester United captain and we don't need you to be realistic. We need you to dream and dream big and get that shit done on the pitch when it counts. And this is our fundamental disagreement, you think what Bruno said was aimed to motivate and incite, I think it was aimed to placate and calm.

 

[E-mal]

Do you ever post anything positive on here? Genuine question. Following united seems to give you nothing but unhappiness and you only ever seem to spew negativity.

Well I don’t have my head buried in the sand, I can see that we have made shite decisions and extending the contract /increasing wages for Bruno was the wrong decision.
You don’t have to agree with my opinion, you can avoid my post and you can avoid my deluded posts/remain in your deluded world.

 

[E-mal]

We got catfished into extending his contract when he had no real offers. We held all the cards and Bruno is not fetching any decent money when he is above 30

 

[Escobar]

We got catfished into extending his contract when he had no real offers. We held all the cards and Bruno is not fetching any decent money when he is above 30

And in his position, there are some excellent players. I am confident we could have replaced him next summer with a top talent

 

[Grand Vizier]

And in his position, there are some excellent players. I am confident we could have replaced him next summer with a top talent

I think we should be looking to move away from the number 10 as part of our midfield. For it to work to the level we are aspiring to be, you either need the 10 to be a playmaker with great close control (David Silva, Ødegaard, Mata) or surrounded by world class players in the midfield. We have neither.

 

[Escobar]

I think we should be looking to move away from the number 10 as part of our midfield. For it to work to the level we are aspiring to be, you either need the 10 to be a playmaker with great close control (David Silva, Ødegaard, Mata) or surrounded by world class players in the midfield. We have neither.

I would prefer an offensive, creative midfielder who's operating deeper. On one hand, it gives more control to the midfield (just look at Spain) and it gives more room for the attacking players.

 

[J!!Z]

Man Utd fans are truly a wierd bunch. You have a player who is excellent if not world class, happy to be at the club and would run all day while being quite productive and yet they berate and attack him every chance they get.
Bruno has very weaknesses and these weaknesses have always been there even before he became a man utd player. If he is not playing as good as many have come to expect from us maybe it's not because of any new weaknesses but because he plays under a manager that plays a system that doesn't elevate any aspect of his game.
People are attacking him for saying we won't win the league this season well guess what? Pep essentially said something similar about Man city few weeks ago despite every man and their dog knowing it would be a surprise if they don't win it.

 

[Big Andy]

I think we should be looking to move away from the number 10 as part of our midfield. For it to work to the level we are aspiring to be, you either need the 10 to be a playmaker with great close control (David Silva, Ødegaard, Mata) or surrounded by world class players in the midfield. We have neither.

Liverpool dominated with a midfield of fecking Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner ffs.

 

[DWelbz19]

Liverpool dominated with a midfield of fecking Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner ffs.

That midfield were profiles that complemented their system. Wijnaldum was very mobile, good under pressure, and would just keep the ball moving with simple passes. Henderson was mostly the same but a bit more expansive with his passes. Milner was never a mainstay, it was Fabinho.

Key difference was, they kept the ball. Wijnaldum would average around 50~ passes a game with super high passing accuracy. Fabinho would average a few more, with slightly less passing accuracy. Henderson was the highest frequency in their midfield around 70~ per game, and he was the least accurate (but still more accurate than ours bar Mainoo).

In addition to this, they could afford for their midfield to be less creative because they had freak chance creators and assist guys like Trent and Robertson both averaging around 10~ assists a season.

In contrast, our midfield suck at keeping the ball. Both Fernandes and Casemiro have far lower passing accuracy. There is no real concept of ball retention in our midfield. Mainoo is the only one who does it but his passing volume is by far the lowest.

 

[J!!Z]

That midfield were profiles that complemented their system. Wijnaldum was very mobile, good under pressure, and would just keep the ball moving with simple passes. Henderson was mostly the same but a bit more expansive with his passes. Milner was never a mainstay, it was Fabinho.

Key difference was, they kept the ball. Wijnaldum would average around 50~ passes a game with super high passing accuracy. Fabinho would average a few more, with slightly less passing accuracy. Henderson was the highest frequency in their midfield around 70~ per game, and he was the least accurate (but still more accurate than ours bar Mainoo).

In addition to this, they could afford for their midfield to be less creative because they had freak chance creators and assist guys like Trent and Robertson both averaging around 10~ assists a season.

In contrast, our midfield suck at keeping the ball. Both Fernandes and Casemiro have far lower passing accuracy. There is no real concept of ball retention in our midfield. Mainoo is the only one who does it but his passing volume is by far the lowest.

I'd argue the problem isn't really Bruno but the system. The myth that Bruno can't be more reserved has been debunked severally by the fact that his passing accuracy is not an outlier compared to similar creative players like Debruyne or Maddison and that for Portugal he dovetails very well with Vitinha as the two CMs in Portugal's midfield while consistently being one of their best players.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter what we think. The beauty of a good system is that the cream rises to the top. Underperforming players are replaced with better players when the system works. Right now man utd has many problems and Bruno Fernandez as captain isn't on the list of problems.
Mainoo (the most settled player in possession in the team) doesn't see the ball much and that's because our manager for whatever reason decided that he would use a FDJ clone as an advanced CM ala Iniesta while leaving a 30+ midfielder who has never been known for good passing as the deepest midfielder. How are we supposed to cope?? How is Bruno supposed to cope?

 

[Grand Vizier]

Liverpool dominated with a midfield of fecking Henderson, Wijnaldum and Milner ffs.

Isn't that exactly my point?

Which of those players are number 10s?

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Don't know why he's classes as a midfielder. When I'm watching these games, he's practically the furthest forward no matter who is playing. I'd rather him or someone else would play a bit deeper and fill in our forever gaping hole in midfield.

 

[Scandi Red]

Bruno would be so good in a Klopp team. And a Fergie team. And an Ancelotti team. And a Pep team, honestly.

 

[Grand Vizier]

Bruno would be so good in a Klopp team. And a Fergie team. And an Ancelotti team. And a Pep team, honestly.

I think he would be great under Pep with Rodri and Gundogan behind him. Not quite De Bruyne levels of passing between the lines, but he would create so much. Under Klopp, I'm not quite sure why you think he's a good fit? If anything he is the opposite of the profile Klopp would go for. Ancelotti and Fergie could get more out of him than his current level, but he is not a good fit for Real Madrid's philosophy.

 

[Scandi Red]

I think he would be great under Pep with Rodri and Gundogan behind him. Not quite De Bruyne levels of passing between the lines, but he would create so much. Under Klopp, I'm not quite sure why you think he's a good fit? If anything he is the opposite of the profile Klopp would go for. Ancelotti and Fergie could get more out of him than his current level, but he is not a good fit for Real Madrid's philosophy.

In my opinion he fits a Klopp team more than a Pep team. I think his excellent work off the ball would work really well for Klopp.

Of course, Bruno's greatest weakness (inability to carry the ball quickly and efficiently over long distances) would mean that certain parts of Klopp's philosophy would suffer (i.e "find the shortest, quickest and best route forward"), but I think his other assets more than make up for it.

He'd kill for Ancelotti too obviously.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Happy 30th birthday.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[mu4c_20le]

And another reminder that two of those were because hooligans bashed his leg

 

[dan1509]

Watching the Portugal first half, their football looks just as chaotic, and their midfield looks just as disjointed as Uniteds. While Bruno has created 1-2 chances with his through balls, he has also lost the ball numerous times and is not really helping Portugal maintain any control of the midfield with his positioning and constant attempts to create something.

He is the common denominator. Any team he plays for has disjointed midfields with chaotic football. United is not going anywhere as long as he is running the show over here. The biggest fraud in football right now, and it is astonishing how he keeps fooling coach after coach with his chance creation stats, which come at the expense of cohesive football with midfield control

 

[mu4c_20le]

Bruno dragging a struggling Portugal side again

 

[horsechoker]

 

[Bwuk]

He caught it well but Gunn should have saved it

 

[Crimson King]

Watching the Portugal first half, their football looks just as chaotic, and their midfield looks just as disjointed as Uniteds. While Bruno has created 1-2 chances with his through balls, he has also lost the ball numerous times and is not really helping Portugal maintain any control of the midfield with his positioning and constant attempts to create something.

He is the common denominator. Any team he plays for has disjointed midfields with chaotic football. United is not going anywhere as long as he is running the show over here. The biggest fraud in football right now, and it is astonishing how he keeps fooling coach after coach with his chance creation stats, which come at the expense of cohesive football with midfield control

Car crash post

 

[Kingofwinners]

Until we're mathematically out of it of course we can win the league. Even if you don't think we can the only purpose of saying so is to lower expectations. Don't judge us with such high standards, we're not that good. What a loser thing to hear from your captain at the start of the season. If he had said we can win the league the roasting would have come mainly from oppo fans not his own. Most United fans would understand that's what a United captain is supposed to say. If ETH is asked in the presser if he thinks we can win the league, you can bet he will give a generic answer like " We are trying to win every competition we are involved in" because even he knows what the supporters expect from their representatives.

He’s happy to collect one of the top ten salaries in the league. That’s a title contender salary, if you don’t think you can captain a team to be a contender don’t take the money or the arm band. It’s not his fault he has them and he is a good guy, but if this is our standard, come on. We are paying Rolls Royce salaries for Toyota expectations and Lada performances.

 

[Hammondo]

Bruno dragging a struggling Portugal side again

Portugal have a great team.

 

[Glorio]

Bruno dragging a struggling Portugal side again

Portugal have a great team.

Which were struggling on the night. Both things can be true.

 

[Pickle85]

Watching the Portugal first half, their football looks just as chaotic, and their midfield looks just as disjointed as Uniteds. While Bruno has created 1-2 chances with his through balls, he has also lost the ball numerous times and is not really helping Portugal maintain any control of the midfield with his positioning and constant attempts to create something.

He is the common denominator. Any team he plays for has disjointed midfields with chaotic football. United is not going anywhere as long as he is running the show over here. The biggest fraud in football right now, and it is astonishing how he keeps fooling coach after coach with his chance creation stats, which come at the expense of cohesive football with midfield control

Astonishing that, isn't it!? It's almost like this slew of professional coaches may know more than random internet fans and aren't actually being fooled but are just seeing him for the important player that he is....

 

[VivaObertan]

 

[UnofficialDevil]

What a load of shite. I mean where the feck is Zidane for example? Modric? feck off