What about Nissan? Are rhey leaving?
Edit: nevermind, found it
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Edit: nevermind, found it
Good point.
Was it just me or didn't Nissan receive an undisclosed inducement to invest in the Sunderland plant just after the Referendum outcome ?
They got "assurances"
To my mind it makes no sense for Sunderland to vote the way it did given what the result means for Sunderland economically. Therefore I automatically assume the majority did so out of ignorance and feel sorry for them.
However, in light of the discussion about remainers patronisingly assuming that the people who voted leave did so out of stupidity rather than because they had simply different priorities, I salute the principles of those wise and informed leave voters who simply decided that "sovereignty" was more important than the economic well being of themselves and those around them. I sincerely hope as much of the economic impact as possible hits them as they are surely the most intellectually and emotionally prepared to deal with the consequences of their decision. Certainly better them than the poor bastards who either voted remain or were too ill-informed to realise the self-harm they were commiting economically.
However, in light of the discussion about remainers patronisingly assuming that the people who voted leave did so out of stupidity rather than because they had simply different priorities, I salute the principles of those wise and informed leave voters who simply decided that "sovereignty" was more important than the economic well being of themselves and those around them. I sincerely hope as much of the economic impact as possible hits them as they are surely the most intellectually and emotionally prepared to deal with the consequences of their decision. Certainly better them than the poor bastards who either voted remain or were too ill-informed to realise the self-harm they were commiting economically.
Am I right in thinking once Brexit is all over, one of the first things the government will be looking to do is re-nationalise the railways?
That is correct, but since the EU made it clear from day one that they would not negotiate (or at one point even talk about) a future trade deal, until we had left the EU, then it seemed ridiculous for the UK Government to agree a withdrawal (or as it became known a divorce deal) agreement; instead the two years allowed in art 50 should have been used to prepare internally for a no deal on the 29th March. Otherwise, as Mrs May has now found out, we have become a hostage to fortune, promising to settle with the EU before we have anything concrete in return.
The binary choices are still there, we either Leave, without a deal, or Remain, and cancel Brexit. None of the other so called 'choices' satisfy either leavers or remainers' and will poison UK politics for decades, primarily because they will be seen to be 'a fix' cobbled together to save, not the country, but the embarrassment of our political classes and which anyhow doesn't work!
The Uk are not a hostage to fortune, they just have to pay what they owe, part of the settlement is for the transitional period, which they won't pay if they leave with no deal.
They also were never going to have a trade deal before they left because until they leave they are still part of the EU. The political declaration is to provide the basis of negotiations when the UK have left.
Unfortunately the British public have been lied to since day one and were never ever going to have a trade deal before they left.
We weren't, but we are now, thanks to Mrs May's 'cack-handed' approach to negotiation.
You are correct in that both sides knew no discussion or negotiation on a future trade deal was possible until we left the EU officially. Therefore the decision by the UK Government to try to negotiate a withdrawal deal was a nonsense, it was no longer a negotiation but a form of 'post nuptial' agreement defined by Art 50 with the UK going where it was pushed!. The fact May/Tories and the majority of parliament, including Labour, agreed to instigate Art 50 before they (appeared) to have any clear strategy, just demonstrates political incompetence, on all sides.
There was never going to be an orderly transition, the two years associated with Art 50 allowed at best for contingency planning on both side. Any actual transition can only be defined properly once the trade deal is done and everyone on both sides knows the positions they are moving to/from and what measures are necessary.
This sentence makes no sense, Art.50 only allows an unilateral withdrawal, it doesn't define any agreement.
But it was only ever going to be a withdrawal agreement plus a political declaration.
The reason the withdrawal agreement is as it is, is because of May's red lines.
If May had said the Uk was going to stay in the Custom's Union and the Single Market it would have been different with the political declaration orientated towards that goal but as the UK want to leave both the CU and SM the current withdrawal agreement is all the UK can expect. The cake and eat it , which is also still Corbyn's plan, has misled the public's expectations totally.
The transition is there to stop the UK falling off the cliff and to start a trade deal negotiation not the other way round.
The Withdrawal agreement may seem awful but Brexit is awful and just about the only thing I did agree with May at the end , it is the only deal available if the UK leave the CU and SM.
Precisely, so why did May (apparently) try to 'negotiate' a withdrawal agreement... or was that just for public consumption back home? Even DD realised eventually it was all a sham and jumped ship!
Because whether you like it or not, the EU and the UK are politically, geographically and socially linked. From a legal standpoint there is a need to have a set of rules and agreement that will apply between both territories and their citizens.
Don't you mean both sides going off the cliff with a no deal?
Only whilst the UK remains part of the EU, when the UK becomes a 'third country' that will change, will it not?
For both sides to negotiate a new relationship and to adjust . It will hit the EU to an extent but they're not going to fall off a cliff, the EU only gets cut off from the UK, the UK gets cut off from everyone.
All the EU members will still have fluid borders with the other EU nations, the Uk would have no fluid borders at all.
No, unless you find a way to move the island somewhere else in the universe. On Earth there isn't a lot of countries that have no agreements with EU member states whether it is through the EU or individually.
Sorry, I don't really understand this statement? Even if it were physically possible why would the UK want to move anywhere else? The UK will always be part of Europe, but after Brexit not of the political European Union, isn't that what Leavers voted for?
I thought that was part of what the leavers wanted?
They want controlled borders which they already have, other than with Ireland.
They want the right to make EU citizens who are a burden on UK society leave the country, which they already have.
They need fluid borders to stop the integrated trade it has with the EU grinding to a halt.
Tariffs and all this discussion about FTA is relevant but more important because of its geographical position is fluid trade with the EU.
Doubt very much many leavers understand the significance.
The political union has nothing to do with the existence of political interactions. The UK will trade with the EU, people and goods will cross the borders which means that political decisions will have to be taken about how these things are organized conjointly. It's true with the US or China and it will be true for the UK.
So let me get this right you think the UK governments stance from day one should have been to not even try to negotiate any sort of withdrawal agreement?
They should have just let the 2 years run down and crash out with no deal, make no effort to agree to border arrangements in Ireland and jeopardize the Good Friday Agreement?
Completely agree. Although, for many, even if they did understand they still wouldn't care.
Yes! Page 999
Dial 999 - call the police
There are 17.4 million lunatics on the loose in the UK.
There are 17.4 million lunatics on the loose in the UK.
If Nissan is your only means of work, as was ship building, as was mining, then its not hard to see why the north eastern people are angry. Total neglect.
So predictableYet so correct
By UK governments though, how is this any of the EU fault?
The problem is most people (be they ignorant right wing mouth breather, or cowardly left wing snowflake) think the withdrawl agreement is the permanent agreement with the EU, and not the interim framework we will be dealing with the EU under while we negotiate or decide our long term relationship with them.
The biggest problem, is that both sides of the argument are just as ignorant and stupid as the other, as they deal in absolutes and fear, both sides think we will be severing all ties with the EU, with one side thinking we will stride mightly into the future with the Union Jack flying on every corner, bent bananas and no more eastern Europeans, the other side thinks we will collapse into a mad max style apocalypse were everyone who cant prove they were born within spitting distance of the bow bells back 6 generations will be lined up and shot, no food on the shelves and their children dying in their arms because there is no medicine.
Neither side seem to grasp that countries dont work like that, they ignore every other country that has left a long term political union (like most of Europe, India, parts of Africa, the United States) and instead think that the UK will be some special exception in what actually happens.
So essentially everyone is an idiot apart from you?
Was having a chat with a couple of folks about no deal brexit... How prepared the business is etc...
Somebody pointed out about the blitz spirit and how we will be just fine whatever happened
Somebody else pointed out that the police had to go on the national news asking people not to dial 999 when KFC ran out of chicken for a few days.
If nandos or maccy-d's goes down I'm with the Kaiser chiefs... There's gonna be riots
They’ve created the environment now for Nissan to go, after the government lied to the people about guarantees.
The government closed the mines etc but for years have managed to blame everyone else, including the big bad EU. The buck should stop with the Tories, every time they’ve been in power they’ve screwed someone over
And millions of others who arent crying about the sky falling in or parading around like its VE day yes.
I mean I am genuinely sorry if i come over as flippant, but having survived around 8 (probably more) apocalypses predicted by various experts and governements, I am not attributing too much weight to this one.
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It was obvious, but Gerard Batten is a moron
https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck...j1avgzk7-IxqCYhQSztlLO2rvjFcP9eilFWf8hksuBIVg
https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck...j1avgzk7-IxqCYhQSztlLO2rvjFcP9eilFWf8hksuBIVg
Do you know what happened in a lot of those countries who left "political unions" (i.e. gaining freedom from colonialism)
Civil wars.
Few things here.
Why are so many things portrayed as both sides being equally wrong/ equally stupid etc? I don't agree with that at all.
I'm interested to know which countries have left a long term political union and which countries and political unions you're referring to there? Especially when you reference countries like India (partition, mass deaths, ethnic cleaning and mass migrations of people), USA (war against the British), parts of Africa (most of our countries only managed to usurp colonisation through mass uprisings/ civil war and then the majority of the continent fell into one party dictatorships, with the former colonial power often still controlling things from a distance) and Europe (what were the political unions in Europe? You mean pan European Empires?). If you're referencing some other events, I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.
Also out of interest, what are these various apocalypses the government and experts predicted and didn't come to fruition? You also must surely appreciate that at least part of the reason they didn't happen is through large scale contingency planning?
I can't remember my history well but weren't we the biggest recipients of the Marshall Plan?
Yeah we used it to build the NHS. And also to prop up the empire for an extra few decades after the war.