I could vaguely understand why Ireland might be inclined to accept an agreement like that but don't see why Poland or Italy for example would. I can see the advantage for Britain (it sounds pretty perfect for Britain actually) but it looks like a lot of compromises for the EU without many advantages (keeping the British as trading partners and maintaining the GFA seems about it?)
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I could vaguely understand why Ireland might be inclined to accept an agreement like that but don't see why Poland or Italy for example would. I can see the advantage for Britain (it sounds pretty perfect for Britain actually) but it looks like a lot of compromises for the EU without many advantages (keeping the British as trading partners and maintaining the GFA seems about it?)
My mrs is dutch, we are not married. The original comment from some bloke said people perhaps could not move to mainland europe cos of family or career commitments, what career? If you guys are to be believed there will be no jobs in april. So which is it?
What would have to happen is that any exports into Ireland and thus EU would have to all the necessary documents completed, any tariffs paid and and VAT by Ireland and of course live animals etc would have to have the necessary inspections made before they entered Ireland. What the Irish Republic would have to do is an unknown because no-one knows the regulations that will apply in the UK (NI). This still does not involve a physical border but makes things ultra-complicated. Smuggling will be rife.
So the chap in Belfast who just wanted to send a consignment to Dublin and previously just stuck it on a lorry with an invoice and a packing list has to get all the relevant documentation in order before sending it. Loads of administration, time and money.
What marketing does...
Adding the UK economy to its block in trade negotiations with other countries is a decent advantage. Increased market size is increased leverage.
yeah ....
Just seems like if you were given it then half the current members would leave and look for a similar deal. Which is kind of fair enough ... maybe thats the long term way forward. Cant see it being agreed to right now though.
Regarding the Irish Backstop and border issue, there is an interesting report on the BBC website related to the current border between Norway and Sweden.
The border functions perfectly well and has done by using current electronic technology.
So...why was this relatively simple solution not identified as a solution in the WA instead of the highly contentious Backstop.
The border functions perfectly well and has done by using current electronic technology.
So...why was this relatively simple solution not identified as a solution in the WA instead of the highly contentious Backstop.
The backstop is only a temporary arrangement anyway until the UK either decide to stay in the CU/SM after the talks due to start in April or until the new technology gets invented.
Any future arrangement will have a cost, thus the main reasons for the UK leaving is wanting their own trade policy , not paying for the benefits they have in the EU amongst others don't think this is going to fly from the UK side nevermind the EU. Pff.
Any future arrangement will have a cost, thus the main reasons for the UK leaving is wanting their own trade policy , not paying for the benefits they have in the EU amongst others don't think this is going to fly from the UK side nevermind the EU. Pff.
Because it's an actual border with relatively heavy infrastructures. While it's very smooth it's also very visible.
Feels like we've gone back in time a year with the repeated conversations.
I've just realised that you're shouting away in an echo chamber. There's conversations running that are taking no notice of you because they obviously have you blocked.
Also that people believe that all the possibilities have not been discussed, rediscussed and rediscussed again between the EU and the UK.
And of course Norway and Sweden are both in the EEA.
Thanks for this. My point though is that the recent HoC vote which actioned Mrs May to go back to the EU to try to reopen the Backstop issue talked about 'using alternative technology' or wording to that effect. Rather than reinvent the wheel, I was just wondering why this existing practice has not been identified or followed. The EU already knows that it operates effectively and assuming the UK doesn't remain in THE CU border control in Ireland will be necessary won't it.
Of course. Even if we sign the Withdrawal Agreement, these conversations will continue through the transition period as the parties search for a permanent future relationship. It will drag on and on indefinitely.
Even without going into the technology aspect, firstly it's still a visible physical border, Norway and Sweden are also both in the European Economic Area . The UK not only wants to leave the Customs Union but the EEA as well. It wants to have the status of a third country.
I will gladly accept that I know less about this subject than you or some other people....
However, I don't consider myself stupid and I have tried to follow as much of the Brexit debates and discussions.
I followed the most recent HoC votes and I don't recall any reference made to the Norway Sweden border.
There was lots of nebulous discussion about new technologies for the Irish border but nothing about current solutions.
That was my point.
Look for Svinesund custom office in google map, you should see why it's not an alternative technology. And that's only one crossing point.
No point me looking if it is not suitable.
Just to reiterate. All I was doing was pointing to the BBC report.
Is irrelevant be married or not in willing to stay for someone you love, what you can do because you can stay in a foreign country for whichever reasons. Others will not be as lucky with Brexit and they are even married and you made that poor comment "Any remainers moved to europe since 2016?" (and please, don't claim that it was an innocent comment)
And yes, will be jobs on April. But what has to do with people than stays in UK because of Brexit? Brexit is a hardship but still home and not everybody has the choice. And being and immigrant in a better country it doesn't mean that you will be better than home with all your network (family, friends, job opportunities, culture, language, etc...)
But you know that pretty well. That is why your snarky comment (because it is, don't play dumb) is hypocritical and disgusting
No problem. It has been mentioned more than a year ago, like Switzerland, but neither have actual frictionless borders.
Is someone really thinking that UK can get away without paying his dues (being 39 Billions with the WA or 24 Billions without the WA) without consequences? amazing!
Oh look, more evidence of Vote Leave breaking rules:
Didn't mean to sound a bit off .
No there was some reference some time ago but it was ruled out as unsuitable.
In all honesty I don't see any solution with or without technology .
The UK want a totally separated relationship with the EU.
A farmer wants to move his cow from one field in NI to another field on the other side of the border, or sell some food produce acroos the border, no electronic technology is going to solve that.
Any sign of a physical border is a problem in Ireland
I've been shipping goods all over the world for donkeys years and although a few things are now done on line and electronically, at the end of the day it's loads of paperwork and checks and administration.
If I'm shipping something from Africa to the EU for example I've got several weeks to get everything prepared, all the documentation etc so when it arrives it can leave the port and customs relatively smoothly.
With the volume of traffic over the Irish border and no time at all to prepare you can imagine the problems this would cause.
Then of course there's Dover/Calais which doesn't bear thinking about .. which is another story not involving the backstop but which will be an even bigger problem.
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Im hurt
Its fair enough, its a 1000 page thread so you cant be expected to go back and find the previous twenty times its come up. Most of these reports that have come up are ... dishonest? Theres another one showing no border control at the top of a cul de sac, think it was on the swiss border? And the irish border has a lot of its own challenges by virtue of what and where it passes through.
You really do know what you are talking about given your experience.
You say that you don't see any solution with or without technology.
So what is the way forward then given where the UK currently is.
There has to be some form of solution, apart from remaining in the EU.
It means we're back to Brexit in Name Only ie the UK leaves the EU but stays in the Customs Union and Single Market (assuming they can become an EFTA member) but there seems little point.
Even if there were other possible solutions, as you can see in parliament, there are so many different factions, there will never be a majority for one solution.
Brexit as in a real Brexit has always been an impossibility for me in this day and age( without being a catastrophic disaster).
This is a great summary of the problem, given the red lines that have been set out:
Some problems are intractable, this one particularly so because the Commons as currently elected can't agree on which two are most important.
Thank you. I did read this earlier but, taking account of the latest posts, this is now much clearer.
Moreover, it illustrates the almost insurmountable difficulties.
I have to say that the information posted here is far more relevant and informative than anything I have followed during the Brexit TV coverage.
Its hardly a poor comment when it seems staying in an eu country is the holy grail. Moving is a choice, deciding to stay in the uk is a choice, staying and moaning is also a choice. If you see a better life for you and your family abroad, your choice to stay is bewildering. I left behind family and as my parents got sick and eventually died, I went home every week. Would it have been any better for them if I lived in the uk, no. So yeah, if you hate it so much, what is it in life you actually want? If it's to stay in the uk and be unhappy but close to friends and family then fair enough. If you think your family would be better off abroad then move.
It seems if the UK leaves with no deal they will literally be in the sh!t.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ng-stockpiles-of-rubbish-after-no-deal-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ng-stockpiles-of-rubbish-after-no-deal-brexit
Funnily enough, the picture showed the border in the back.
Brexit criminals at an event:
I will sintetize it because genuinely don't see the irony
you say: Remainers says that staying in a EU country is the holy grail. Staying and moaning is a choice
You do (As a leaver opinion): Brexit is the holy grail for UK. Staying and moaning un NL is your choice
Further instructions: yes, you did not say Brexit is the holy grey, it has its flaws but worth it. The same with remainers. EU has its flaws, but worth it
Conclusion: you criticize remainer's behavior (not that is criticizable, but is for you) for something that you do exactly the same. If you hate so much the EU to want Brexit, wtf are you doing in EU and not the UK the same way you tell remainers to leave UK after Brexit?
P.S.: If you don't get it, you are thick af. And I am done with it either way
There you have it, standard remain insult. Was going to reply but I'll wait until you pass your 11+
And again hypocritical when they warned you for insulting me (if what I said is an insult...) directly in your first quote not that many pages ago because I was just saying plainly my opinion
You must be remainer
PS: I can't be a remainer if I am not brittish. I just have common sense
You really don't see yourself ever to what you criticize, even when is in front of your nose.