The backstop is a potentially great position for NI to be in and I'm all for it. The DUP are the only ones really against it. The UK were the ones who negotiated the bloody thing in the first place.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Presumably extending A50 would still be an option too?
Media friendly faces suddenly really keen on the idea of de/reselecting Labour MPs.
Odd that.
Odd that.
She's a perpetually lying little snake, yet I still find her weirdly a little bit attractive.
Sadly, now I can relate to some of those comments about Sarah Sanders in the Trump thread.
Dodds literally isn't talking for NI here.
Its ridiculous.
They don't want to be a part of this.
Its ridiculous.
They don't want to be a part of this.
She's a perpetually lying little snake, yet I still find her weirdly a little bit attractive.
Sadly, now I can relate to some of those comments about Sarah Sanders in the Trump thread.
She is a vile person. She's been caught lying about keeping information linked to russian spending in the referendum and claimed she forgot it was in her attic. Yet everyone ignores it.
They are all a pack of self-service, arrogant liers
No surprise there.
That's it in a nutshell.
If you want a united Ireland? Problem is DUP are in coalition supporting government, and also conservative MPs want union as one.
Yes it's 100% May's and UK negotiaters fault.
Looks a certainty although these amendments were pointless anyway.
Pound's dropped 1.5 cents since yesterday morning.
With a purpose EU would probably agree. Not just for more time I think.
You can just about imagine that conversation...
M... Jeremy what do you want for brexit
C... A unicorn and an election
No its just a really good position for Northern Ireland to be in. They'd be half in and half out of both jurisdictions and basically get the best of both worlds with none of the risks.
That is in fact true, but not May's intention here - she looks to be resigned to 'no deal' now and the passing of the Brady amendment this evening will simply help her manage it (in terms of her own reputational damage).
Other options, like a general election/2nd referendum/revoking A50 might start to look more palatable to some, though (obviously none carry anything like a majority at this stage), given that the only alternative will be no deal.
That can't be done unilaterally, though, and the EU would only agree to it if there was a GE/2nd vote on the table (or to allow time to pass the legislation for a ratified WA).
It does put Ireland in an interesting position if they genuinely believe UK will leave with no deal rather than accept the backstop.
Wouldn Ireland rather be fecked for certain at the end of March now, or potentially be fecked in a couple of years time?
Wouldn Ireland rather be fecked for certain at the end of March now, or potentially be fecked in a couple of years time?
Thought this was a noteworthy line from Tusks statement:
"Should there be a UK reasoned request for an extension, the EU27 would stand ready to consider it and decide by unanimity"
Doesn't sound hugely enthusiastic about extending. A 'reasoned request' kind of suggests they'd look at the purpose of asking for an extension. And decide by unanimity kind of suggests one objection would be enough for them to say no.
"Should there be a UK reasoned request for an extension, the EU27 would stand ready to consider it and decide by unanimity"
Doesn't sound hugely enthusiastic about extending. A 'reasoned request' kind of suggests they'd look at the purpose of asking for an extension. And decide by unanimity kind of suggests one objection would be enough for them to say no.
Well a second vote seems out of the question, so what would it take for a GE in the context of a looming no deal?
We'll be on track for a united Ireland.
Nobody wants to push this forward but the vote will almost certainly happen in the event of no deal.
That's an acceptable scenario IMO.
A civil war then.
A united Ireland? The only thing that is likely to bring about that is a no deal Brexit. The backstop potentially gives NI the benefits of remaining in the EU but whilst remaining in the UK. It would possibly cause a boom in our economy here. Why do you think Scotland were freaking out about it as they wanted the same terms. All our business leaders are very optimistic about the backstop. The DUP are trying to turn it into an orange and green argument which it isn't, it's an economic one.
True... Equally there is nothing in law to prevent the UK from withdrawing A50 and then resubmitting the next day... Clearly wouldn't be a good start to negotiations but legally the UK could.
This is all that needs to be said about our current parliament.
Feckless twats. Genuinely enough to bang your head against a wall.
It would need to be voted through the House of Commons first though.
A majority of the House to pass a motion of no confidence in the government. Corbyn failed with his no confidence vote two weeks ago (325-306) but will almost certainly have another go in the coming weeks.
Possibly with scotland?
Could see wee Jimmy cranky giving it the big freedom speech and declaring independence and daring may to send in the troops
True... Both the withdraw and to resubmit
Possibly all it would take is may thinking she could win it... Pitch it virtually as a second ref and hope the conservatives can pick up lots of leave labour constituencies ?
If she offered a ge labour couldn't conceivably vote against it... EU might grant A50 extension for a ge?
Unlikely but not impossible she might go for this
The primary reason we dont want you to leave without a deal is because it would lead to a border in Northern Ireland. We're not going to agree to a deal that doesn't guarantee avoiding it. End of.
The threats to 'feck Ireland' don't make people more inclined to deal with you incidentally. Its an idiotic bargaining position to take unless you desperately want to avoid reaching a deal.
The Irish position appears to be that in the event of a no deal they would put temporary measures in place (think of the foot and mouth crisis years ago) and hope that sense prevails over the coming weeks and months. That is a better proposition then potentially signing itself up for a border in the long run.
In fact the Irish PM already alluded to this position earlier in the week:
Also something eluded to from other EU sources:
Don't get it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46216120
What is the benefit? In the customs union like rest of the UK but with extra checks on some goods? Just extra bureaucracy?
They couldn't. There's a clause about 'good faith'. Resubmitting it a day, week or month later would clearly violate that.
No NI would be in customs Union and also in UK which would be a unique position. The rest of the UK would be out of the customs Union.
Aye, no doubt and her constant smug appearance and sneering manner are really off putting. Seems to hide behind an exterior of investigative journalism when she's clearly very biased and self-interested.
I'd still give her one though. An angry one.
A spokesperson for Varadkar said:
The EU position on the withdrawal agreement, including the backstop, is set out in the conclusions of the December meeting of the European Council. It has not changed.
The withdrawal agreement is not open for re-negotiation.
The agreement is a carefully negotiated compromise, which balances the UK position on customs and the single market with avoiding a hard border and protecting the integrity of the EU customs union and single market.
The best way to ensure an orderly withdrawal is to ratify this agreement.
We have consistently said that we want the closest possible future relationship between the EU and the UK. A change in the UK red lines could lead to a change in the political Declaration on the framework for the future relationship, and a better overall outcome.
We will continue our preparations for all outcomes, including for a no-deal scenario.
The EU position on the withdrawal agreement, including the backstop, is set out in the conclusions of the December meeting of the European Council. It has not changed.
The withdrawal agreement is not open for re-negotiation.
The agreement is a carefully negotiated compromise, which balances the UK position on customs and the single market with avoiding a hard border and protecting the integrity of the EU customs union and single market.
The best way to ensure an orderly withdrawal is to ratify this agreement.
We have consistently said that we want the closest possible future relationship between the EU and the UK. A change in the UK red lines could lead to a change in the political Declaration on the framework for the future relationship, and a better overall outcome.
We will continue our preparations for all outcomes, including for a no-deal scenario.
The whole of the UK would effectively remain in the customs union under the backstop.
Which May insisted upon.
Actually the good faith was the advocate general interpretation... The EU court that said it could be revoked said it slightly differently
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/976296c6-fc6c-11e8-ac00-57a2a826423e
To the best of my understanding if it is totally revoked.. i.e. it's not suspended then it can be withdrawn
At which point you are a full member state with all your rights enshrined in law as before... This includes the right to invoke A50
Suspect the EU would move to close the loophole but that said not sure if we have a veto... One for the lawyers but good faith is implied in all contract law... But meh get the lawyers on it and it could take years to sort out