Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Maticmaker]

It makes no sense at all, the backstop will not be removed or modified.
And no deal cannot be blocked unless there is a deal, which is this one.

By now EU can't wait for the day the UK go away .

Yes that's probably correct, the genie is out of the bottle and even if the UK Parliament was after all now to vote to remain it could present numerous problems for the EU, going forward, even if a new 'peoples' vote in the UK changed the outcome and appeared to give legitimacy to the vote taken in Parliament. The UK would still be a reluctant member, not joining the euro zone, still demanding opt outs; perhaps even more so around FOM, or under a Corbyn government wanting to give state aid to British industry, etc. To keep the piece in the UK, (i.e. with upset leavers) Parliament would be demanding even further rebates on areas of expenditure in EU budget i.e. that moved the EU towards a United States of Europe, the establishment of a free standing EU Army, etc., and perhaps worst of all, the great risk of the UK returning a certain Mr Farage to the ranks of the MEP's.

Indeed, viewed in this context, in many ways it would be madness for the EU to extend Art 50.[/QUOTE]

 

[caid]

What a stupid question.

 

[Buster15]

A little bit like you are trying to blame the EU for your domestic problems?

Examples please of me doing that.

 

[Buster15]

That's interesting because the problem is with his image not the substance.

Well if he has substance as you say then why did his policies give rise to the recent protests with Iron Man Macron back down so quickly.

 

[JPRouve]

Well if he has substance as you say then why did his policies give rise to the recent protests with Iron Man Macron back down so quickly.

His policies have very little to do with it, the Gilets Jaune can't even explain what they want and they only represent a minority.

 

[Buster15]

His policies have very little to do with it, the Gilets Jaune can't even explain what they want and they only represent a minority.

So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

 

[NinjaFletch]

So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

I mean this really kindly, but from the outside of this exchange it appears that you don't really know much about this debate and are talking to two posters who do.

Why be confrontational about it when you could treat it as a discussion and find out why they have formed different conclusions to you? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean all discourse has to be an argument.

 

[JPRouve]

So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

No, since that policy doesn't come from him, it's in place since 2014. At best you could blame him from not getting rid of it but no one wanted to do that or asked for it.

 

[Buster15]

I mean this really kindly, but from the outside of this exchange it appears that you don't really know much about this debate and are talking to two posters who do.

Why be confrontational about it when you could treat it as a discussion and find out why they have formed different conclusions to you? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean all discourse has to be an argument.

Firstly I appreciate your conciliatory response.
It was not my intention to be confrontational. I normally try to understand an issue before choosing to comment and this I have done.

I have read a summary of the reasons behind the recent French protests and without listing them I focused on the primary reason.

If I have misunderstood the situation then I bow to your knowledge.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

So. Nothing to do with fuel prices then.
Many thousands of people turn out for at least 9 weeks for no reason....

It started because of the fuel prices but within a week or two the price of fuel went down a lot so they had to find another excuse. Prices are still lower now than they were in 2012.

Bottom line is Macron is trying to reform the french system which is resistant to change. The protestors are being urged on by the extremists and opponents of Macron.

Tax being deducted at source which was introduced during the 1940s in the UK and was introduced in France in January 2019 and I've seen the Gilets Jaunes are awaiting their pay packets next week to see if they've been ripped off.
I believe there are 47 different retirement schemes...

There's plenty of substance but trying to get the reforms through is another matter.

 

[Abizzz]

A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

Who, when, and where?

 

[JPRouve]

Firstly I appreciate your conciliatory response.
It was not my intention to be confrontational. I normally try to understand an issue before choosing to comment and this I have done.

I have read a summary of the reasons behind the recent French protests and without listing them I focused on the primary reason.

If I have misunderstood the situation then I bow to your knowledge.

You probably didn't misunderstood. Lots of reporters in France and abroad reports half of the information, the fuel malarkey is an example. In France for years diesel had lower taxes than petrol in 2014 the government and the Greens decided to promote green energy and created the "Carbon tax", one of the plan was to put petrol and diesel taxation at the same level by 2020-2021. That policy was kept and confirmed by Hulot the new french Ecology minister in 2017, during all that time no one really complained about it until last December.

Also Brexit is barely in the news around here and it's not used by politicians at the exception of Le Pen/Phillipot who for some reason stopped.

 

[Buster15]

Who, when, and where?

David Cameron was a good example so was his mate George Osborne.

 

[Abizzz]

A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

Who, when, and where?

David Cameron was a good example so was his mate George Osborne.

Oh I thought you meant heads of state of other countries, but you meant leaders in the UK who are pro EU?

Because given the clusterfeck that is brexit I think the other 27 have been remarkably restrained up to now.

 

[Stanley Road]

Oh I thought you meant heads of state of other countries, but you meant leaders in the UK who are pro EU?

Because given the clusterfeck that is brexit I think the other 27 have been remarkably restrained up to now.

Restrained in what context?

 

[golden_blunder]

A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.

Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.

Eugh

 

[golden_blunder]

Restrained in what context?

Restrained from not reaching across and wringing Nigel farage’s neck

Sorry was dreaming there

 

[Abizzz]

Restrained in what context?

Restrained in the context of a continues stream of lies , fabrications and insults about the E.U and it's constituent countries coming from MP's of the governing party, and even ministers.

 

[africanspur]

Restrained in what context?

In the context that so many of our politicians are spouting nationalist nonsense towards the EU constantly, rabble rousing about deals that can't be done, without an equivalent response from politicians across the channel, some of whom are still imploring us to stay?


Incidentally, was speaking with a couple of colleagues from Northern Ireland yesterday and they told me (coming from Derry and with family still there), there have apparently been a car bomb daily in Derry for the past few days.

But then I don't think many people in England even care about what happens in NI.

Exceptional stuff.

 

[Stanley Road]

Restrained in the context of a continues stream of lies , fabrications and insults about the E.U and it's constituent countries coming from MP's of the governing party, and even ministers.

Not all eu members have restrained in voicing an anti eu opinion. So dont just buĺlshit here.

 

[sun_tzu]

Just a thought... But the 2 amendments getting spoken about most are
1. Remove or time limit the backstop
2. The cooper Boyles one to block no deal

It seems the erg etc might go for the first one but even if they do and the dup agree to it as well it seems likley there could be enough conservative remain MP's (circa 20) and not enough level opposition (circa 10) to get it past.

Now it has also been trailed that there is a majority for no deal...
Well looking at this article that majority might be as low as 3 mps... And that assuming nobody gets their arm twisted into abstaining or shock horror a promise of a promotion etc

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...k-boles-amendments-backstop-a8748131.html?amp

So it is possible we have a number of amendments hoping to show what there is a majority for in parliment and none of them securing a majority.

At which point (presuming a second ref amendment has also not secured A majority on Tuesday) there really is only 2 options I think which is leave on 29 march with no deal... Or say to the EU we are leaving with no deal and see if they want to extend a50 to put some legistlation in place (planes in the air etc) for the so called managed no deal (basically orgainsed chaos )

Anybody else think that could end up happening on Tuesday or do others think there will be at least one amendment that passes

If it does Benn and labour will have dropped a massive bollock in pulling his amendment from the meaningful vote

 

[sun_tzu]

Become like Singapore they say...

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/01/2...br-intl/index.html?r=https://edition.cnn.com/

Singapore says to do that you need to stay in the EU... Increase immigration and give up about 2/3rds of pensions and national health spending

I'm assuming borris will Say Singapore are part of project fear now

 

[Massive Spanner]

Marr is a twat. Coveney is ripping him apart

 

[Reiver]

Become like Singapore they say...

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/01/27/uk/singapore-model-brexit-dyson-gbr-intl/index.html?r=https://edition.cnn.com/

Singapore says to do that you need to stay in the EU... Increase immigration and give up about 2/3rds of pensions and national health spending

I'm assuming borris will Say Singapore are part of project fear now

Thanks for posting the article, very interesting .
Adds to my fear that Brexit is just a smokescreen to turn Britain into a Tory utopia of low tax, minimum regulations and a work force with reduced rights.

 

[Ramshock]

Marr is a twat. Coveney is ripping him apart

Any link?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Any link?

Don't have access to iPlayer but it was on Marr's Sunday show.

 

[Adisa]

Thanks for posting the article, very interesting .
Adds to my fear that Brexit is just a smokescreen to turn Britain into a Tory utopia of low tax, minimum regulations and a work force with reduced rights.

It's not a smokescreen. They have been very clear about it .

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Any link?

Starts at 38mins here


Coveney spoke very well. It's about time these views were aired in the UK and Coveney nailed him on the various unicorns he brought up.

 

[Ubik]

Tim's not clocked that you aren't supposed to say that bit out loud.

 

[sun_tzu]

Tim's not clocked that you aren't supposed to say that bit out loud.

To be fair I think there is a part of the erg thinking that is well if we back an ammenamen saying the backstop has to be negotiated it has 3 advantages
1. The EU won't and it will allow them to say this is why we have to leave with no deal
2. It will run the clock down making no deal more likely
3. It basically sets up their campaign I'd there was a second referendum... EU forcing a hard boarder ... Trying to stop UK sovereignty... Impossible to work with them... Etc etc...

That said I don't think they can get 50%+1 for the ammenamen as there is probably 20 or so remain conservatives who wouldnt vote for it

 

[JPRouve]

Tim's not clocked that you aren't supposed to say that bit out loud.

That's also incredibly dumb. Unilaterally amending a bilateral agreement. You wonder if they are extremely thick or if they think that the public is.

 

[Ubik]

That's also incredibly dumb. Unilaterally amending a bilateral agreement. You wonder if they are extremely thick or if they think that the public is.

Little from column A, little from column B.

 

[P-Nut]

That's also incredibly dumb. Unilaterally amending a bilateral agreement. You wonder if they are extremely thick or if they think that the public is.

The general public is a bit thick though, how else do you think we got in this mess to begin with

 

[Paul the Wolf]

That's also incredibly dumb. Unilaterally amending a bilateral agreement. You wonder if they are extremely thick or if they think that the public is.

You've been following this for three years and you know the answer - both.

 

[JPRouve]

The general public is a bit thick though, how else do you think we got in this mess to begin with

I would say that disinformation and misinformation are the main culprit, it's easy to be misled when you don't have all the information. The irony of this tweet is that it exposes the reason why the backstop is necessary, some politicians seem to struggle with the notions of bilateral agreement.

 

[P-Nut]

I would say that disinformation and misinformation are the main culprit, it's easy to be misled when you don't have all the information. The irony of this tweet is that it exposes the reason why the backstop is necessary, some politicians seem to struggle with the notions of bilateral agreement.

The amount of people that now have most of the information and still want to leave is unreal though.

 

[JPRouve]

The amount of people that now have most of the information and still want to leave is unreal though.

That's a fair point but I suspect that pride plays a big role in it. You told everyone that you were moving to Shangri-la and insulted everyone on your way out, there is a little bit of awkwardness in your potential comeback.

 

[SteveJ]

Enough about Jardim, mate.

 

[Reiver]

The amount of people that now have most of the information and still want to leave is unreal though.

This is a good point. They won't admit they're wrong. Probably comfort themselves with the thought that the fallout from Brexit will be divied up equally between Leavers and Remainers alike.

 

[P-Nut]

That's a fair point but I suspect that pride plays a big role in it. You told everyone that you were moving to Shangri-la and insulted everyone on your way out, there is a little bit of awkwardness in your potential comeback.

This is a good point. They won't admit they're wrong. Probably comfort themselves with the thought that the fallout from Brexit will be divied up equally between Leavers and Remainers alike.

I think it literally the case that they can't take a step back and admit they've made a mistake