As British as Farage.
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As British as Farage.
Ironically, pre-2016, the UK was projected to become the EU’s biggest economy in the next 20-30 years. Now we are about to be relegated to the equivalent of the Europa League.
It's Francois.
Interestingly his middle name is Gino.
French surname, Italian middle name.
Probably loathes himself.
You should play your matches on a wet Wednesday night in Stoke!
I would if I were him!
He has no other defense of his position other than blind patriotism. If that is what he and his voters are fearing the E.U is best off with them out and as far away as possible. As a German I am offended by this, who does he think he is to say someone's opinion is bullying because of the persons nationality? It would be hilarious if it wasn't an MP, but that's just thoroughly offensive.
Edit: And before you get your knifes out I am also a American who's Grandfather fought for the allies. I used to be binational, now i'm just a citizen of nowhere
That is exactly what they do think, hence their Brexit has always been a 'no deal' outcome from day one! Don't forget many of those harbouring these fears were brought up in the post war years, where as children they were constantly reminded of Britain fighting two WW against the same foe. Today such views are offensive, especially to people like yourself, but they are hidden deep in the psyche of the baby boomers generation and come to the fore in these debates.
Either that or they are a easy talking point to rile up emotions without having to face reality and the problems it creates used by a politician with his back to the wall. I'm sorry but saying the CEO of Airbus is pushing German interests and conflating that with his fathers fight against the Nazi's is so far beyond the pale that I don't see how any reasonable person could take it serious.
I'm genuinely starting to wonder if a vast number of baby boomers suffered from lead poisoning from leaded Petrol during their formative years. It just seems bizarre that their parents fought so fecking hard for the freedom of Europe and this Country and steered it toward great prosperity and stability and yet the majority of them seem to be too fecking dumb to understand it.
Isn't it theorised that the fall of Rome was down to the Roman's decision to line their water pipes with lead and in doing so lowered their collective intelligence?
Their strategy against 'project fear' recently has been to crank up the chauvinism and the us vs them narrative with the EU. On the ground where I am it seems to be working.
Yes it is, but when its also tied, by many Brexiteers into Britain's (real and/or perceived) position in the EU, e.g. we are not in the Euro zone, we have opted out of various elements of the EU requirements, we have been involved in various arguments over rebate demand/ issues, provided vocal opposition to an EU standing army, etc. It ruffles feathers and makes being anti-EU a positive position, it confirms that really we are not good Europeans and both the EU and us would be better off separated. Hence when CEO's from such as Airbus make these kind of comments they are easy meat for such as Francoise to turn into perceived threats, especially accompanied by the amateur dramatics of ripping up copies of such speeches on daytime TV.
Sure, it will work to consolidate the alliance of the ignorant, but where's that going to take them? The world will go on after the 29th of March, and if they get their way no one will care about their fears anymore, they'll be a sideshow of a sideshow (Europe) on the world stage, with the seat at the security council as a last reminder of former might. It only took a trade war with China to completely take the State's focus off of Brexit, they don't care anymore... I can't even remember the last tweet about it.
So where do they take this?
No, this particular person isn't. I will need further convincing before I believe that people like him truly speak "for the British people".
Agree with how it works though, but it shouldn't be above you guys to vote out people like that.
I've mentioned in this thread before that a lot of Brits have similar mindsets to Russians in that they're happy to be isolated and that they don't feel they need the help or influence of any other countries.
Its hard to say what will happen in the event of a Hard Brexit but I have to admit that despite criticising Corbyn a lot, there is a part of me that would like to see him take power in that situation and implement his ideas for a socialist state.
And that's a reason to make yourselves less influential? I can't follow... Unless you're trying to say brexiteers are trying to make life in Britain a bit more like life in Russia, in which case their actions suddenly make sense.
Well yeah, there happy to take the hit to free themselves from the EU, influence in geopolitics is an abstract concept to the man on the street. I bet most of the country know nothing about the G7, for example.
At a political level Brexiteer's want to be completely free from all lawmaking influence that the EU over us, specifically pertaining to FoM and things like employment law. They want to turn us into a low tax and low regulation economy. I think the potential deterioration of working conditions because of this would be a much bigger concern than any loss of standing among the global elite powers.
It's only abstract until it manifests itself in the food on your supermarket shelves and the conditions of you're local community. They won't be able to blame the E.U for concessions they'll need to make to trade freely with the other large economies of this world, who's influence needs to be matched to meet them on a level playing field.
While I respect that there' a large number of brexiteers that would like a low tax low regulation economy one can hardly say it's the definitive majority of them. Whenever the topic of employment law comes up they seem quick to assure that UK law will match / exceed E.U protections, often enough they claim that it was the Brits who brought about the E.U law in the first place. (I'll just accept that all brexiteers, and thereby the majority of Brits, want an end to FOM, the amount of brexiteers who don't want that seems tiny).
Given that all brexiteers are only 51 % of the voting public they don't make up anything like the majority needed to throw out everyone else's protections.
And being a low tax country only really works in a larger network. There's no point for a company to have it's headquarters in a low tax country that can't trade with anyone.
That’s why I feel that privately Corbyn is dreaming of the Tories leading us through a Hard Brexit so they destroy their credibility as a ruling party and he can step in and found his modern socialist state free from the tentacles of the EU. He probably never dreamt that this could actually ever happen.
51%.... Not at all
More people didn't vote than voted leave
It breaks down something like
34% didn't vote
33% brexit
32% remain
(Cba to look it up)
Not accounting for people changing opinion since... Demographic changes and exactly what the people who did vote brexit actually meant by that.... plus of course those that are not registered or not eligible to vote
https://ukipnfkn.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/screenshot-2016-10-29-08-45-50.png?w=459&h=495&crop=1
But will of the people etc
He said "only 51 % of the voting public".
Those that don't vote don't count in a democracy.
There is only logical option now. Brits, welcome back to the EU!
You never actually left, but still.
You never actually left, but still.
True. Some people can't take that, but only when they lose of course.
Head in hands. Don't click but you get the gist.
So the strategy is to pass something the EU say is impossible in the hope they'll climb down due to nothing else being able to pass?
Well, even the Sun gets it that the plan is flawed.
In the comments, you still have people thinking that there a no borders with non EU countries.
A point I've not heard before at any rate on radio 4, Leavers frequently claim that WTO rules are absolutely fine, whilst simultaneously claiming an independent UK could make better trade deals than they can now. If WTO rules are so fine why should we need new deals so badly? One or the other statement must be wrong.
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You mean Leavers, give you a clue, no other country trades on WTO rules alone. I haven't heard one single Brexiter who seems to have the vaguest knowledge of international trade.
So the UK think avoiding no deal means they negotiate a deal with itself.
See this example of that particular contradiction being highlighted (quite entertainingly)
Farage was in Dublin last year spouting that nonsense
To be honest it makes some sense
If the EU do any negotiation it's only going to be on the basis that agreeing something guarantees it passes In the commons so if she could go with a working majority for an amendment to the backstop it might (no guarantee) open up further negotiations
The problem is I am not sure there is a majority for it even with the erg and dup as she had something like 20 remain conservatives vote against her proposal last time as well and I can't see how this gets them on board... Far more likley they vote against this but for the amendment blocking no deal
If that does happen (and I think it will) then there is no way the EU negotiates the backstop if there is no clear majority for the commons even if they do
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Shit yes, I'll edit it. Just promise to delete your replies
He's one to talk
A lot of the EU leaders with their 'holier than thou' stance make me sick.
They are hiding behind Brexit which they are using to mask all their domestic problems.
Macron is a typical media leader. Looks good but fxxk all substance.
A little bit like you are trying to blame the EU for your domestic problems?
It's your problem, you caused it, deal with it. Why should the EU bend over?
It makes no sense at all, the backstop will not be removed or modified.
And no deal cannot be blocked unless there is a deal, which is this one.
By now EU can't wait for the day the UK go away .
That's interesting because the problem is with his image not the substance.
You took the words out of my mouth.
And I should add that he isn't liked by French media, it wasn't the case when he was a minister and it's not the case today. French media are mainly divided between LR supporters and PS supporters while Macron is considered like the outsider.