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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Nope. There is widescale discontent in the UK. The referendum saw an expression of that rightly or wrongly aimed at membership of the EU. That discontent would have remained, referendum or not, and would have manifested itself in some way and at some point.

What is this "normal" life you speak of?

There is wide scale discontent but I don't think it would have developed into the scale that we see it today, I believe that the referendum put a huge wedge between people which intensified the split between the leave and remain camps. I can see that there still would have been calls for the referendum to take place, but I don't think the situation would have devolved into the mess it is now.

Well, 'normal life' could be a tricky one to explain depending on your views on what normal is. Perhaps its more accurate to say life would have carried on very similar to how it had been prior the referendum.
 
Why oh why must we see the same shit from people like Boris, David Davis, Farage, JRM again claiming to know every solution when it just isn’t possible. Had JRM saying this morning that people didn’t vote for a deal yet one of Vote Leaves main pledges was to negotiate a better deal. Are there any fact checkers in the media to put these people right?

Trumpism at its best.

Why? Because it's easy to say they could do better from the sidelines watching on without actually having to back it up and all their UKIP/Vote Leave/Gammon faced acolytes will lap it up.

I do agree that they need challenging every time and tbf I did see KGM on C4 last night do this a few times but it's certainly not happening enough.
 
Why oh why must we see the same shit from people like Boris, David Davis, Farage, JRM again claiming to know every solution when it just isn’t possible. Had JRM saying this morning that people didn’t vote for a deal yet one of Vote Leaves main pledges was to negotiate a better deal. Are there any fact checkers in the media to put these people right?

Trumpism at its best.

These sorts of comments are the worst. He claims to know the intentions of 17m people when they simply ticked a box.
 
Why? Because it's easy to say they could do better from the sidelines watching on without actually having to back it up and all their UKIP/Vote Leave/Gammon faced acolytes will lap it up.

I do agree that they need challenging every time and tbf I did see KGM on C4 last night do this a few times but it's certainly not happening enough.

I used to hate Sky News but at the moment they're the only ones who seem to actually challenge back. They do give far too much coverage to Tory MPs though imo.
 
Ed was dreadful as a personality though (ironically seems quite sound post-politics now). Still always worth reminding fcuk face of that tweet for sure.

I think the last 10 years or so just show how poor British politics has been in terms of people that can actually lead parties and ultimately the country. So many dull, unlikeable people - even in the Labour Party that is supposed to represent the ordinary working class person.
 
Britain clearly prioritised eating a bacon sandwich elegantly over staying in the EU.

Just a reminder that the Tories seem to often suffer from a bit of Trumpitis in that they forget their past statements are piss easy to find again nowadays. Also in the context of JRM's constant revisionism.
 
What if the UK revokes article 50, and the next day after the EU accepts the revocation, the UK triggers again article 50? There you have it, two more years of negotiations!
The EU will say feck off and refuse to negotiate. The deal from their point of view is done, UK can accept it, revoke article 50 or feck off without a deal.

UK has been acting like a brat child. No reason for EU to dance with them.
 
Your next door neighbour trying to gently push your drunken rowdy self towards a sensible option with the patience of a saint
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0116/1023521-brexit-ireland-reaction/
Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said it is still unclear as to what the British parliament is looking for, following last night's rejection of the Brexit deal.

He said Ireland would not object if Britain asked for an extension to Article 50, but that such a request would have to be accompanied by a plan that allowed for an orderly Brexit.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr Coveney said that a withdrawal deal was still on the table and he did not believe the EU was in any mood to change it.
 
The best possible thing is IMO a 3-way referendum which would be:

- Brexit without a deal.
- Brexit with the current deal.
- no Brexit at all.

The deal is already negotiated, let the people decide if they want the deal, want a hard Brexit or want to remain now that they might be more informed.

If no Brexit at all doesn't get 50%+, then whichever of two Brexit options gets more vote, is declared the winner.
 
In over 30 years of observing British politics, I can safely say the current Brexit situation is the biggest f**king shambles of the lot.

Corbyn & May are both inept.

Beginning to think Guy Fawkes had the right idea.
 
Why? Because it's easy to say they could do better from the sidelines watching on without actually having to back it up and all their UKIP/Vote Leave/Gammon faced acolytes will lap it up.

I do agree that they need challenging every time and tbf I did see KGM on C4 last night do this a few times but it's certainly not happening enough.

The media needs to hold people accountable, the interviewers need to do their research and call people out on these lies.
 
Incredible to think that if Cameron hadn't of initiated the referendum in the first place, life would have carried on as normal and barely anyone would have noticed.

Billions wasted on his decision and yet he sits on various boards and probably still earns a pretty penny.
 
There is wide scale discontent but I don't think it would have developed into the scale that we see it today, I believe that the referendum put a huge wedge between people which intensified the split between the leave and remain camps. I can see that there still would have been calls for the referendum to take place, but I don't think the situation would have devolved into the mess it is now.

Well, 'normal life' could be a tricky one to explain depending on your views on what normal is. Perhaps its more accurate to say life would have carried on very similar to how it had been prior the referendum.

I agree that the referendum has amplified the divisions within the UK. But they were there nevertheless, always have been, and are widening as the economic equality gap widens (I'm not necessarily blaming the EU for the this inequality just stating it as a precursor of the vote) I feel the vote has brought things to a head. If not this vote there would have been another protest manifestation of the legitimate and deep discontent in parts of the UK - for some discontent and the desire for change has been the norm and has been for decades. For those in the UK who have done well this is difficult to grasp and is fuel on the fire of division.
 
The fact she's still not reaching out to leaders of all opposition parties is a fecking disgrace.

Her own cabinet have told her its necessary and told her indicative votes are necessary but here we are with her sticking to her red lines and maintaining this is only a Tory party issue.
I recon she could get a majority for some sort of Norway style deal, with help from Labour. Doubt there is time to negotiate that though.
 
I recon she could get a majority for some sort of Norway style deal, with help from Labour. Doubt there is time to negotiate that though.
The Norway deal is worse than been a full member. They were discussing that in depth a few weeks ago on the radio, they even had a Norwegian business man on who gave the details and confirmed that. That is the last option by far. I’d rather stay in that, and if that prat Kinnock is in favour of it that proves it!

Here is a list link describing it in detail, make your own mind up.

https://www.politico.eu/article/norwegian-pm-uk-cannot-cherry-pick-eu-membership/
 
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I agree that the referendum has amplified the divisions within the UK. But they were there nevertheless, always have been, and are widening as the economic equality gap widens (I'm not necessarily blaming the EU for the this inequality just stating it as a precursor of the vote) I feel the vote has brought things to a head. If not this vote there would have been another protest manifestation of the legitimate and deep discontent in parts of the UK - for some discontent and the desire for change has been the norm and has been for decades. For those in the UK who have done well this is difficult to grasp and is fuel on the fire of division.

What pisses me off is that while I totally understand people's desire to send a protest vote against a system they consider deeply unfair, the stupid cnuts then keep repeatedly voting the Tories back into power.
 
If you are pretending to take into account the concerns of the Leave voters (as deduced from the referendum), then Norway makes no sense whatsoever. It involves:

- no “take back control” - the UK would be a rule taker with no seat at the table
- no “350m for the NHS” - the UK would still be paying some membetship fees
- no control of borders, and here come 80m Turks - there is freedom of movement with EU states

For Remainers, it is a much inferior version of what we have now and, if it won’t satisfy Leavers anyway, why downgrade ourselves?

Basically, with May’s deal dead (and which was only a transition arrangement anyway while the long-term deal was negotiated) a choice needs to be made between Remain and a no deal leave. There is no achievable alternative which makes sense.
 
The best possible thing is IMO a 3-way referendum which would be:

- Brexit without a deal.
- Brexit with the current deal.
- no Brexit at all.

The deal is already negotiated, let the people decide if they want the deal, want a hard Brexit or want to remain now that they might be more informed.

If no Brexit at all doesn't get 50%+, then whichever of two Brexit options gets more vote, is declared the winner.

So 26% of the voting public could drive us to a no deal Brexit? Yea that's a terrible idea.
 
What pisses me off is that while I totally understand people's desire to send a protest vote against a system they consider deeply unfair, the stupid cnuts then keep repeatedly voting the Tories back into power.

Says more about Labour no?
 
Says more about Labour no?
Nope - it says more about media brainwashing. I can't remember the last Labour leader who wasn't subjected to constant ridicule in the press. Unfortunately, this nonsense seems to convince the public time and again.
 
Says more about Labour no?

To a point it's an indictment of Corbyn, and his unwillingness to find some kind of middle group between himself and the moderates in the party. At this point in time there is absolutely no good fecking reason to be talking about the plight of Palestinians, about our NATO membership, about unilateral nuclear disarmament or any of the other vanity projects of the far left.

It also says a lot about the political disengagement of the British public however who keep voting Tories back into power despite them draining public services of funds, and fundamentally undermining the NHS which the public almost unanimously support. There's a genuine mass ignorance about what parties actually stand for, what they do, and what is a realistic expectation of them. Vast numbers of people don't know shit about politics, don't understand the issues and the policies but believe their own often deeply childish interpretations must be right because of 'common sense'. It's the same in America, which is why they have such a ridiculous, braindead asshole in the White House.

I've got a long running theory that this is a cycle. In times of national crisis people start to focus on politics and the genuinely important things that effect everyones lives and then we see genuiine positive change in the wake of the crisis. Then as people become comfortable in their lives, they disengage and focus on their own personal circumstances and so over time politicians can operate under far less public scrutiny. Propaganda becomes more important than public engagement and policy and the level of leadership declines as liars and salesmen replace genuine statesmen and women. This inevitably leads eventually to mass public disgust and disapproval of politicians, which opens the door to the next group of populists to come along and feck everything up and cause the new crisis to reset the cycle.

That's my theory anyway. :)
 
Because the UK is in chaos now.

Cameron hasn't been PM for nearly 2 1/2 years and there has been a GE in between. It's irrelevant to the current situation.

He wanted us to stay in Europe, the vote went against his strongly held views, he did the honourable thing & resigned. I really don't see the problem.
 
I think working class people vote for Tories because at the end of the day being seen to be tough on crime and scapegoating immigrants resonates with people. Also you need a certain level of economic sophistication to understand how misleading it is to speak about a country's finances in the same way as a households finances. It is a neat analogy that makes a lot of sense: we are in debt, we need to cut back, just like if your family had huge credit card debts, you would stop going to the cinema every Friday night and start buying Tesco Value beans. By the time you start pointing out that families dont have the ability to print their own money and raise taxes, they have already switched off.
 
Nope - it says more about media brainwashing. I can't remember the last Labour leader who wasn't subjected to constant ridicule in the press. Unfortunately, this nonsense seems to convince the public time and again.

Ah, that'll be it, the media.

If Labour spent less blaming the right-wing media and more time on appointing a credible leader who at least looks prime-ministerial, they might make some headway.
 
Cameron hasn't been PM for nearly 2 1/2 years and there has been a GE in between. It's irrelevant to the current situation.

He wanted us to stay in Europe, the vote went against his strongly held views, he did the honourable thing & resigned. I really don't see the problem.

It's not irrelevant because it highlights how untrustworthy the Tories are. The fact that it's only been 2.5 years shows how it is still an issue. The country is divided and the fact that Cameron couldn't see that happening is his own fault and should be noted in history.

You could argue it's not helpful right now but that's a separate issue.
 
What pisses me off is that while I totally understand people's desire to send a protest vote against a system they consider deeply unfair, the stupid cnuts then keep repeatedly voting the Tories back into power.
What’s the alternative? That terrorist supporter Corbyn with his terrorist supporting sidekick McDonnell?
Until Labour sought themselves out then the conservatives are the best of a bad bunch.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4571924/Corbyn-s-30-years-talking-terrorists.html

Even MI 5 have a file on him, he’s not really fit to be an MP let alone PM.
 
It's not irrelevant because it highlights how untrustworthy the Tories are. The fact that it's only been 2.5 years shows how it is still an issue. The country is divided and the fact that Cameron couldn't see that happening is his own fault and should be noted in history.

You could argue it's not helpful right now but that's a separate issue.

I'm sorry I just disagree with you entirely.

Like I said, he did the honourable thing & resigned as he could not lead a party into Brexit against his strongly held, opposing, views. He actually has some principles, yet you are criticising him for it? May was pro Remain but is persueing a Brexit policy, that's hypocrisy.
 
To a point it's an indictment of Corbyn, and his unwillingness to find some kind of middle group between himself and the moderates in the party. At this point in time there is absolutely no good fecking reason to be talking about the plight of Palestinians, about our NATO membership, about unilateral nuclear disarmament or any of the other vanity projects of the far left.

It also says a lot about the political disengagement of the British public however who keep voting Tories back into power despite them draining public services of funds, and fundamentally undermining the NHS which the public almost unanimously support. There's a genuine mass ignorance about what parties actually stand for, what they do, and what is a realistic expectation of them. Vast numbers of people don't know shit about politics, don't understand the issues and the policies but believe their own often deeply childish interpretations must be right because of 'common sense'. It's the same in America, which is why they have such a ridiculous, braindead asshole in the White House.

I've got a long running theory that this is a cycle. In times of national crisis people start to focus on politics and the genuinely important things that effect everyones lives and then we see genuiine positive change in the wake of the crisis. Then as people become comfortable in their lives, they disengage and focus on their own personal circumstances and so over time politicians can operate under far less public scrutiny. Propaganda becomes more important than public engagement and policy and the level of leadership declines as liars and salesmen replace genuine statesmen and women. This inevitably leads eventually to mass public disgust and disapproval of politicians, which opens the door to the next group of populists to come along and feck everything up and cause the new crisis to reset the cycle.

That's my theory anyway. :)

That third paragraph is a really interesting take.

Also agree wholeheartedly re the second paragraph. So often it's about the person, not politics. It's shallow and it shouldn't be the case, but it is that that win elections. Labour seem to have lost sight of that.

Instead they shot themselves in the foot with Miliband. And then proceeded to shoot themselves in the other foot with Corbyn.
 
I'm sorry I just disagree with you entirely.

Like I said, he did the honourable thing & resigned as he could not lead a party into Brexit against his strongly held, opposing, views. He actually has some principles, yet you are criticising him for it? May was pro Remain but is persueing a Brexit policy, that's hypocrisy.

The fact he couldn't control his party and gambled with the future of the country is the issue and that can't be ignored least from a historical perspective. I go back and forth whether or not he should have resigned.

I'm less of a fan of May than I am of Cameron but even I can't call her a hypocrite on pursuing Brexit when the country did just vote for it.
 
I'm sorry I just disagree with you entirely.

Like I said, he did the honourable thing & resigned as he could not lead a party into Brexit against his strongly held, opposing, views. He actually has some principles, yet you are criticising him for it? May was pro Remain but is persueing a Brexit policy, that's hypocrisy.

You see no issue with a leader abandoning his post at a time of crisis when the likes of Boris could have taken over? Which would have resulted in the country in a direction Cameron further disagreed with.

The only principle was cowardice because he didn't want to take on the fight.