Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
Does anything sum up better the current wretched, absurd state of the UK than the fact Chris Grayling holds a cabinet position?
My head is spinning.
Theresa May is too weak to sack Chris Grayling. Think about that.
Any examples of those “lies” you’d like to share with us?
So May is trying to get further concessions from EU despite them already saying the withdrawl deal is not going to be re-opened. She will come back in a week with nothing and we will be back where we started a while back when she backed out of the original vote.
Will she go through with it this time? I think she has to.
Will she go through with it this time? I think she has to.
Doesn't this just typify the complete and utter balls up that this government has taken us into regarding the dreaded B word.
Whether Labour would have done any better is open to question.
But it was a Conservative government that decided to hold the referendum and it was a Conservative government who quite obviously had no idea at all what to do with the outcome.
Rank amateur is too kind a description.
A government is supposed to show leadership isn't it.
Mrs May is trying to lead but her problem is that she is trying to lead down a path that the majority don't want to follow.
That is not leadership.
They only used 79 lorries because the imaginary Seaborne ferries can't carry more than that.
The world watches on in bewilderment.
Any signs of any newly recruited customs officers?
That's because she wants to remain? How you end up with a government where this dozy mare wants to remain and yet is leading our exit is laughable. So a deal is pushed so people forget no one voted for a deal and then people say, you know what? Let's have another vote....cause the deal is crap but thats not what the referendum was for anyway. So no, she don't want to leave and never did and if the Eu ask her to roll over, she will because she has absolutely no interest leaving the EU. It has nothing to do with being anything other then two faced.
Last edited:
My guess is they simply don't have the qualified staff to pull off proper governance within the government mandated timelines.
Then we have idiots overseeing them who have no idea will put their signature on any old rubbish.
This convoy is the lead story on rte.ie, but nowhere to be seen on bbc.com...
Surprising, or perhaps not surprising depending on your view of the BBC. Is it on bbc.co.uk, anyone?
Surprising, or perhaps not surprising depending on your view of the BBC. Is it on bbc.co.uk, anyone?
Quite right.
I said right after the referendum that the government; any government in fact has no real idea how to conduct proper negotiations.
In my job, I have worked with German, Italian, Spanish and French and know that when things get a bit tough, they can become very stubborn and bureaucratic and do anything but make a decision.
We ought to have been honest enough to bring in professional negotiators to assist.
We also absolutely failed to do the most obvious. When faced with a large opposition, divide and conquer.
Anyway we are where we are which is between a rock and a hard place.
As you say not surprising, they tend to hide stories that could get them accused of impartiality so it won't be headline news...until Grayling tries to declare it a success.
Yep that's what I see here from Ireland too, it's not even the main story on the UK page.
The BBC is one of the world's biggest news sites so not surprising really .RTR is basically only viewed by people in ROI.
I doubt many remainers think she is pro-remain and it seems not many brexiteers see her as a brexiteer either.
So, the agreement on the table is the only one the UK could hope for which has been obvious since day one. It wouldn't matter who was in charge of the government , just that other leaders may have been more or less honest or dishonest with the public. The outcome of the proposed agreement would still be the same.
Now which of the three options available do you want to happen
1. Cancel Brexit
2. Leave with no deal
3. Leave with this agreement.
Because whether there is a general electon, new referendum or a change of leader, the same three options will still be there at the end of it. There's not much time left.
bbc.com sure, bbc.co.uk isn't which is why I was asking UK people to check for me.
oh, honestly had no idea they still had .co.uk - thought they moved it all to .com
To be fair, May has actually tried that but got nowhere with it, they are sticking together..
You are right but also to be fair she tried far too late with the obvious outcome.
Yes, but to be picky what wasn't obvious is that May would strike a deal, I think that was touch and go, but it's there now so yeah, those are the options as it stands.
However it might still be possible to ask for an extension in order to explore a completely different agreement, Norway or whatever, but there doesn't seem be any majority in the house for doing so, or any agreement on what to go for anyway, so it doesn't seem likely.
The one thing I expect us both to agree on is that any politician that claims we can just go back to Barnier and get a better deal, without being able to give any reasons why, or that they have some sort of super-competence, previously undemonstrated, to get 'get a better deal' should be shot.
What exactly do you think the EU would have ceded on. Absolutely nothing, the outcome was obvious from the beginning.
The EU will never compromise the four freedoms.
The negotiating part comes later when the new relationship is discussed with the EU and also the rest of the world. Just hope the UK has enough negotiators to deal with all the countries they have to deal with.
May is fairly useless but she has done the best anyone really could with the shitshow of a parliament we have to push through some form of Brexit that will not economically ruin the UK. She may have been pro Remain at the referendum but nothing she has said since has suggested she is working as a double agent for the Remain camp and the fact that she gave the key Brexiteers the task of planning and negotiating our Brexit and to a "man" they lied, shirked their responsibility and ran for cover when the farce of their promised land was exposed shows that it was unlikely any form of Brexit was ever likely to be achievable unless we risked the complete isolation and economic ruin of the UK that is a no-deal scenario.
Accept that you were conned at the referendum and then lets get on with scrapping this farce and start taking our place in Europe seriously and changing the things we don't like from the inside rather than acting like spoilt children as we always have. We're lucky that the EU haven't shut the door on us given the grief we have caused over the last 3 years.
Yes it was doubtful she was getting any agreement at certain times. However, I still think people are mixing up the agreement to leave and the new agreement for the future. The new agreement will not be discussed until after the UK have left. The transition period is in effect the extension but I don't see how a new agreement can be agreed within 2 or 3 years - the Uk haven't got to have agreements just with the EU but the rest of the world too.
Politicians have treated the whole affair as some kind of game for their personal enhancement. They should all be held to account when this is over.
Certainly the likes of BJ, Farage and the ERG should be held directly accountable if we leave with no deal and one single person dies as a result of not getting their medication on time.
I think you're right on this, and in honesty I've been guilty of it myself at times, but it's not just the common pleb like me, I've heard politicians and pundits who don't seem to know the difference, but trot out their theories nonetheless.
Just seen a tweet saying Downing Street have said they haven't got anything to update in time for the debate but hope to have a written statement before the vote.
It's incredible how they're allowed to just keep kicking the can down the road. They'll purposefully release some vague statement from the EU the day prior in the hope that it has less time to be debated and deemed worthless.
It's incredible how they're allowed to just keep kicking the can down the road. They'll purposefully release some vague statement from the EU the day prior in the hope that it has less time to be debated and deemed worthless.
I didn't say that the EU would have ceaded anything.
What I was saying was that we made their job much more simple than it ought to have been by not finding a point of weakness.
It is highly unlikely that all 27 would have exactly the same viewpoint.
In particular those countries with a large number of citizens living and working in the UK.
Highly skilled negotiators utilise any and every tactic to probe for a weakness even if it is not readily available.
Having made such a pathetic job I would hope that lessons would have been learnt....
Of course; just like the bankers were held to account for the Global Financial Crisis?????
So you advocate using people as bargaining chips? Believe it or not, people from UK live in Europe too.
might release something late Tuesday or early Wednesday to deflect a bit at PMQ's... but most logically let the Hard brexiteers and the 2nd referendum lot shout at each other for 5 days... spend the weekend trying to get the numbers so the seemingly inevitable defeat might not be totally crushing... then as you say release a joint statement with the EU - probably late Monday next week before May makes a big closing speech on Tuesday
I still expect a defeat... probably followed by a confidence motion on Wednesday from Labour - which will probably be debated (and defeated) on Thursday?
There is then a deadline of 21st Jan
It wont let me copy section 11 - but basically if there is nothing agreed by 21st Monday which seems impossible the government will have 5 days from 21st to make a statement about what happens next.
My gut feel would be they use Friday 18th to put in place their plan for the next week which will probably be something along the lines of
Monday (21) - debate on options
Tuesday (22) - non binding votes on a series of options to try and find a majority for something (gut feel they they wont)
Wednesday(23) - PMQ's and general kerfuffle / panic
Thursday (24) - put the PM's deal back to parliament hoping the panic will get people on side to vote it through(gut feel it wont)
Friday (25) - statement from government either saying hard brexit, or that they are going to EU to ask for more time (presumably based on either a GE or 2nd ref) - but I think going down the hard brexit route will be the most likley
Monday (28) - total panic - legal action to try and stop hard brexit and beyond that I have no idea
Well well. I never knew that. If that sounds condescending it was meant to.
What lies has he told?
As a strategy it's logical (and they did try by all accounts) but it was pretty much a non-starter from day 1. The big issue is that those countries are going to continue to be members of the EU club after we leave, and EU membership is more vital to their interests than anything we could threaten or offer.
End of the day, the EU can threaten us with far more damaging consequences than we can to them. It won't come to that (dear god I hope not anyway) but if it came down to some hypothetical scenario where the two sides wanted to do each other damage, the EU could simply shut down the port crossings to the continent, refuse to let UK planes use their airspace, and then about a week later accept our complete and unconditional surrender on whatever terms they pleased after our country had collapsed into complete chaos.
We don't have a strong hand. We never had a strong hand. It's long past time that we fully understood that and acting accordingly.
No need for the second sentence there tbh.
I had the impression I was being treated as a fool. If not then I agree and retract the second sentence.
Yes negotiators would look for any weakness but the leave agreement basically only involves citizens rights, the Irish border and the settlement amount plus the transitional period.
There is not really a lot to negotiate in reality but May has strung it out with a lot of chest thumping from the government and the ardent Brexiters.
In reality the last two years have been for show and the outcome inevitable. I don't believe any PM would have come back with anything different. I am no fan of May or Corbyn btw.
The real negotiations will start in April on the future relationship.
The country with the most citizens in the UK I believe are Poland and they are urging them to return home because their economy has improved.
Agree they won't be held to account but if there was any justice they would be..