The backstop is a one way ticket to a Irish reunification, they'd vote for the actual IRA before May's plan.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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I have a feeling this is a plot from the hardest of Brexiteers in the Tory party.
They’re forcing a vote of no confidence and will then vote in favour of May.
May will then be granted immunity for the next 12 months. This means that it will be her deal or no deal and they know that no deal is likely to win over her deal.
So they’re effectively forcing a no deal Brexit.
They’re forcing a vote of no confidence and will then vote in favour of May.
May will then be granted immunity for the next 12 months. This means that it will be her deal or no deal and they know that no deal is likely to win over her deal.
So they’re effectively forcing a no deal Brexit.
Democratically speaking, change of leadership after a leader was elected and ruled for some time is ok
Cancelling a result before it was even implemented is not. A state can't keep calling for referendums till it gets the result it wants
A second referendum should only be possible after Brexit materializes. Rigid and hence a bit stupid? Yes..but that's the problem of any formal system based upon rules.
136 torys have said they will vote with her, she needs 22 more.
There is not a majority in parliament for No Deal, not even close. Whether that means a majority can be found for a solution that avoids it is another question, but parliament is hardly going to sit on its thumbs as the clock ticks down.
I think the people of Greece might argue that is precisely what is happening to them. It will be intersting to see how the EU deals with Italy though - it may be too big to be subjected to the same level of disdain.
IS this really Mrs May?
“Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have pointed out we can revoke article 50 and not actually carry out this suicidal shitshow, and that in failing to do so we may fall into the grip of the Blonde-Haired Idiot and all the odious apparatus of ERG rule, we shall not flag or fail.
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight ourselves, we shall fight ourselves in private members clubs and at Eton reunion piss ups, we shall fight ourselves with growing misplaced confidence and growing strength in the hot air we expel, we shall defame our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight ourselves on the beaches and the benches of parliament, we shall fight ourselves on national television.
We shall fight ourselves in the fields of social media and in the streets, we shall fight ourselves in the hills; we shall never surrender to logic, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and given prosperity in the Customs Union via a backstop, then our austerity Empire within our land and sea borders, armed and guarded by the Universal Social Credit, tax breaks for the rich and food banks, would carry on the pointless arguments, until, in God’s good time, the ERG, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and liberate bendy bananas from the EU.”
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/20...fD8oIbqRs-p6enOHwTMy4-ge2CsCQcC6cfEKFHu-3pWEo
“Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have pointed out we can revoke article 50 and not actually carry out this suicidal shitshow, and that in failing to do so we may fall into the grip of the Blonde-Haired Idiot and all the odious apparatus of ERG rule, we shall not flag or fail.
We shall go on to the end, we shall fight ourselves, we shall fight ourselves in private members clubs and at Eton reunion piss ups, we shall fight ourselves with growing misplaced confidence and growing strength in the hot air we expel, we shall defame our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight ourselves on the beaches and the benches of parliament, we shall fight ourselves on national television.
We shall fight ourselves in the fields of social media and in the streets, we shall fight ourselves in the hills; we shall never surrender to logic, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this Island or a large part of it were subjugated and given prosperity in the Customs Union via a backstop, then our austerity Empire within our land and sea borders, armed and guarded by the Universal Social Credit, tax breaks for the rich and food banks, would carry on the pointless arguments, until, in God’s good time, the ERG, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and liberate bendy bananas from the EU.”
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/20...fD8oIbqRs-p6enOHwTMy4-ge2CsCQcC6cfEKFHu-3pWEo
There’s nothing undemocratic about asking the nation again. In business, the last two years would have been considered a discovery phase.
Do you want to leave? - Yes.
Ok let’s look into that and see what sort of position that will leave us in.
Ok, here’s what you will get. Do you still want to leave?
It’s far more undemocratic to force the people to vote from a completely uninformed and misinformed position and then to refuse them a vote when that position is clarified.
There will be a majority when the choice is No Deal or May’s Deal. Even as a remainer I can see that.
Parliament is predominantly pro-EU, and this will become clear in the event of a looming no deal scenario.
Basically, the EU are bastards too, look what they did here with Lisbon, but they aren’t as bad as the Tories who will have free reign to do as the please in the UK if a full on Brexit goes ahead.
I'm not sure I understand how this Tory election works. Suppose May gets 49% support, then she has to quit as leader. Then six candidates stand with 15% or so support each. MPs have no choice but to keep voting until there's only two left, and then the party members choose one of them. So you end up with a party leader supported by 15% of MPs instead of one supported by 49%, less than a third. Hopefully I've misunderstood something or it's a load of bollocks.
Not even the Tory hard Brexiteers who support a No Deal believe it would win a vote in Parliament against an alternative proposition. Their entire strategy is avoiding a vote entirely and just allowing it to happen. The reason May's Deal doesn't have majority support in Parliament is not that everyone who opposes it would favour No Deal if those were the only two options (only a minority think that), it's that they think there are other options.
Disagree with the bold part. That's what happens in all democratic elections. You elect politicians thinking they will do so and so , and then you realize only post-election that you were misinformed. Positions are usually clarified after election results, not before that.
I agree though that a couple of chaotic years may provide a justification somehow for a second referendum without violating democratic principles. But from following the news, I understand that like 40%+ of the British people are still pro-Brexit. That's a lot even if not a majority. A second referendum may seriously divide your country more and risk distrust in democratic values, as well as a sense of apathy towards participation in any future referendums or elections.
What I do not understand is that if parliament say they don't accept 'No deal', from where do they suddenly spirit up another deal apart from May's deal. There is no other deal so they have no choice but to revoke A50 without a referendum.
Right and then in 4/5 years time, or before if deemed necessary, a new election is called and the people vote once again with a clearer picture.
the only other option is another referendum/people's vote. the EU aren't renegotiating anything.
And if Leave won again, parliament will again say no deal is not acceptable and then what?
When you look at the parliamentary arithmetic, even Brexiteers might come round to that idea - it could be their best chance of getting a hard Brexit.
No mate, waterford whispers is basically the Irish version of The Onion.What do you mean, keep calling for referendums.
Now the facts are on the table, it is only fair that people have the opportunity to have another go and make the right choice.
Do you think that once a government is elected, that's that, you are stuck with them until they are beaten in a war? You do realise, that's exactly how Nazi Germany started?
Are you saying that the migration of EU nationals to the UK, via Ireland, in a post-Brexit world would be a big issue? Anyone entering the country in that way would have the same status as an illegal immigrant from anywhere else in the world. Given that such migrants (EU citizens) could legally live and work in any EU country, I really don't see many choosing to eke out some kind of twilight existence in the UK.
Then the country deserves everything it gets.
It's like a slow death. My job isn't safe, I'm already working on emigrating if I have to. I'm just sick of the whole thing.
A small part of me wants us to crash out and these people suffer. But the real culprits won't even have a scratch.
Yes but it doesn't get past parliament refuses no deal.
If Leave win again, then you can’t argue with it. It’s a much clearer position, we all know what we are voting for and despite all that, a majority still want to leave but they should do so in the knowledge that in 10 or 15 years time the main demographic which voted to leave will have thinned out and there’s a good chance the public will push to rejoin the EU / especially if we suffer economically over the next decade or so, which it’s obvious we will.
If that happens, we won’t be a special case like we are now and we would definitely have to adopt the Euro.
I'm referring to the West Lothian question
I know, I was joking, it must be scary that the country is being led by lunatics but as always the people responible for the problems will not be affected.
Well, presumably it would be a specific form of Leave rather than just a copy of the previous referendum question, which would make the mandate more specific. Honestly, though, the full understanding of the scale of No Deal is lacking. Some people have even responded to pollsters saying they thought 'No Deal' meant leaving and keeping the *status quo* arrangements, like coming to 'No Deal' over buying a car and walking away no poorer.
Yet opinion polls in Greece heavily favour the eu. Also comparing Greece to the UK is one of the stupidest things about this whole thing. Do you know what the UK world standing is compared to Greece? Do you know their political structure?
Why not compare the UK to countries which it is actually comparable to ? France and Germany for example. We aren't Greece or Poland or those level of countries.
You know what. I think Britain needs a referendum on whether to have a second vote referendum. I am not kidding. I think this is the strongest course of action to take to try and stop Brexit while still respecting democratic values.
40%+ are still Brexiteers. I am sure some of the Remainers would be against a second vote out of respect to Democracy in their view. Thus This preliminary referendum results would be close, but if the result was" yes for a 2nd vote" , it would provide immense democratic justification and levarage for anyone who calls for a second vote on Brexit.
40%+ are still Brexiteers. I am sure some of the Remainers would be against a second vote out of respect to Democracy in their view. Thus This preliminary referendum results would be close, but if the result was" yes for a 2nd vote" , it would provide immense democratic justification and levarage for anyone who calls for a second vote on Brexit.
Yes, agreed but I don't see how parliament can say they won't accept no deal. Without May's deal it's either no deal or cancel Brexit and I don't see parliament cancelling Brexit.
For sure many people do not understand what no deal means (or what Brexit means for that matter) but there are only three possible outcomes which are No Deal, May's deal or cancel Brexit and No deal will always be a possibility and I don't see how parliament can prevent it.
A referendum on whether to have a referendum about reversing the results of the first referendum?
This direct democracy lark isn't what it's cracked up to be.
Cheers
You should check out more of the articles. This captures perfectly the whole Brexit shambles for me.
Cheers
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/20...not-sure-exactly-what-it-sort-of-doesnt-want/
The purpose of the original post wasn't to compare the UK and Greece - the latter was simply used as an illustration of how, in the EU, central control has taken precedence over local democracy.
The point about the majority of Greek people favouring the EU is valid, but they also voted in a government which stood on a platform opposing what was viewed as EU imposed austerity. An odd contradiction, but probably indicative of the position they were in - suffering under the cuts forced on them by the EU, but also believing that their problems would be worse outside the EU.
What do you mean, keep calling for referendums.
Now the facts are on the table, it is only fair that people have the opportunity to have another go and make the right choice.
Do you think that once a government is elected, that's that, you are stuck with them until they are beaten in a war? You do realise, that's exactly how Nazi Germany started?
The problem when a government is elected it rules for some time. Only afterwards you may remove it, through early elections for example. Brexit has not materialized yet. You are still in the EU. That's the difference.
Yes.
You are asking for a second vote. That's the main contentious decision. So you need a referendum on it itself. The people's vote would give the mandate for such a contentious line of action.
What can you do? I felt like crying listening to this.