The UK - like most modern democracies - would have passed laws protecting human rights etc. etc. even if we were never in the EU. The EU doesn't have a corner on the decency market.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Well we're not at tax haven and disaster capitalists aren't in charge yet.
Don't know about that. I suspect the UK would have drifted more towards a US style wealth creation centered orientation of the employer is key, feck workers' rights. Actually, my biggest concern regarding Brexit is that this what will happen if we leave, creating a more unequal, fecked up society.
Any evidence for this? Given how right-wing populism has taken off recently? Which is hardly something is garnered towards decency?
Our record of voting 'for' such legislation as stated above would suggest that the UK mindset is not like that.
Any evidence to the contrary?
How can you say she is not be self centred when she wasted 2 years of negotiations and instead of bringing the whole of parliament together and working cross party to achieve something for the good of the country regarding Brexit she tried and failed at a power grab general election to strengthen her own position. Please tell me how that was for the good of the country?
She can't even bring herself to say that if the deal goes down she will resign. This is why the only appropriate answer to your laughable comments was a green smiley.
Agreed. And signing article 50 itself was an act to gather brexiteers support at the time it happened. Neither her government nor her country was ready, it was irresponsible.
To say this woman is doing her duty is incomprehensible when all her actions harm the very country she is representing.
She tried to do the right thing and put a Brexiteer in charge only to discover that the supercilious twat's negotiating plan was 'give us everything we want and more or we'll jump off the cliff'. That was the stalemate for over a year puctuated with pressers where DD stated that progress was being made only for Barnier to come out 5 minutes later and say the opposite. Seeing this for the total car crash it was going to result in (and probably following some pretty frank phone calls from the EU regarding DD) May eventually had no choice but to step in personally. If anything you could say she should have done so earlier. What we have now is the result of that because she was not prepared to let the country crash out on WTO rules.
It was an act to honour the vote of the referendum and virtually the whole house supported it.
At the time it happened.
The UK should at the very least have commissioned plans to expand the ports before triggering article 50 to give the pretense of "no deal" any sort of plausibility.
It was simply irresponsible to trigger article 50 with no preparation whatsoever. Talk about honor all you want, there is little honor in navigating your country into a nightmarish crisis simply so you can keep saying "it was the will of the people". It wasn't. It was the will of the people to leave the EU, not to do so in the most incompetent way imaginable.
Never seen such a gutless leader of the opposition. His plan is to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong. Good luck with that.
It's all very well to sit here with hindsight saying we should have expanded the ports. No government was going to spend that kind of money unless and until it was absolutely necessary. The longer the delay the greater the accusations would have been that they were kicking the can down the road. This was all going to end in a crisis regardless of when A50 was triggered. The problem was having the referendum - not the result. Any government of whatever colour that tried to reverse the result would be in danger of consigning themselves to the political wilderness for a generation.
Sorry but you failed to answer any of the points raised and waffled some hypotheticals in the mix. She set out her red lines and the negotiators followed that. She threatened no deal and tax haven on the edge of Europe in her speech how was that in any way in the countrys interest. She stuck the Brexiteers in cabinet to support her so that way they didn't work against her.
The only thing in the countrys interest is unity, she failed miserably on all fronts and has always been about self preservation as a politician.
It's your argument, you defend it.
Yes totally. Problem is a lot of people still think they can go back to the EU and get something better so gambling that if May's deal is rejected they'll end up with something else. I have had the impression for a long time that the UK are sleepwalking to disaster and they'll probably end up with No Deal by accident.
Explain to me how she would have been able to establish a cross-party working arrangement when you had the SNP and Libdems who's only mission is to reverse the result and a Labour party that would never engaged in anything other than that which advances their own agenda. You ask me for evidence. You have a Parliament which was almost 2/3 Remain which you reckon could coalesce to enact a 52% leave vote from the people. People that spanned every party and every class. Tell me exactly how that would have worked.
It wasn't hindsight when I and many others said so at the time. I'm not even necessarily saying the ports should have been expanded, but there should have been a game plan to do so should it become necessary to have them running by the end of the 2 year period. I agree that the original mistake was the referendum, and yes it was always going to become difficult... but she's played one blunder after the other. As a result the UK is now facing her deal (which for a multitude of reasons would never be desirable under normal circumstances) or no deal, which is unimaginable to many of us. And i'd be even be fine with that, if it was all ingenious politicking to get her deal across the line, but it isn't working.
I already did by pointing out that the UK's voting record on EU legislation does not support the argument that, if we were not in the EU we would have disintegrated into the populist right-wing state you assert that we are today.
I seem to remember the government claiming 2 years ago they were budgeting £3 billion for planning. What actually happened to that money anyway, considering there don't appear to be any plans in place?
I don't know. My criticism is based on my not hearing/seeing anything to the contrary. Should there be extensive plans in the making or preliminary construction I apologize. However I'd be very surprised if there was, given that I soak in all news re brexit and infrastructure (anyways).
Up to now the only realistic option (at this moment in time) I have come across if no deal should happen is to let in the trucks/cargo without checks anyway. Which will work for a short time, however as Carney rightly said trucks don't like going back empty (they'll still come, but it will be more expensive).
Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, says the government is considering what it could do to help Britons living in the EU with access to benefits and housing if they have to return to the UK after a no-deal Brexit because they cannot stay where they are living now. He says:
If UK nationals in the EU were unable to continue to live their lives in the EU as they do now in a no deal scenario and returned to the UK to live, there are a number of steps the government would consider to address concerns that they have raised. This includes access to healthcare, education, benefits, and housing. We recognise that these would be an important part of a transition back to life in the UK.
The document does not say what help the government might provide with housing but, on benefits, it says “arrangements will be made to ensure continuity of payments for those who return and are already in receipt of UK state pension or other UK benefits while living in the EU”.
Well that's alright then .
If UK nationals in the EU were unable to continue to live their lives in the EU as they do now in a no deal scenario and returned to the UK to live, there are a number of steps the government would consider to address concerns that they have raised. This includes access to healthcare, education, benefits, and housing. We recognise that these would be an important part of a transition back to life in the UK.
The document does not say what help the government might provide with housing but, on benefits, it says “arrangements will be made to ensure continuity of payments for those who return and are already in receipt of UK state pension or other UK benefits while living in the EU”.
Well that's alright then .
David Davis, the former Brexit secretary, is speaking in the Commons now. He says that, while a no-deal Brexit would create some difficulties, it would not be as bad as some people claim.
He says trade through Calais would continue. And, if there were problems, up to 40% of trade could be diverted to other ports, he says.
Thick as mince Davis, really has no clue about anything.
He says trade through Calais would continue. And, if there were problems, up to 40% of trade could be diverted to other ports, he says.
Thick as mince Davis, really has no clue about anything.
I was a remainer. I do not see the EU as a problem. I did have concerns that uncontrolled immigration was in danger of swamping our infrastructure. But I did not see that as a reason to vote out. I am aware that there were thousands of folk for whom successive governments felt disenfranchised and forgotten.
The result was not 100% to leave, had it been then WTO would have probably been the only answer. The vote was 52-48 and as far as I can see May's deal reflects that. The main objections to it I think, are being overblown but I nevertheless hope that she can get some amendments that allay their fears. If she isn't totally annihilated next Tuesday then she may be able to have another go with some tweaks.
Leaving aside the backstop and the withdrawal deal and looking at the political declaration for the future relationship, there are some reasonable points in there and it does look as though it could be a unique, comprehensive deal and not a Norway/Canada copy. As far as I'm concerned it would never be like staying in the EU but I do think there is potential.
More so than any other conceivable route as we stand right now.
I agree with all of that.
Labour constantly requested publicly that they be made part of the negotiations and she refused. She made no effort to get some cross party unity for the good of the country therefore it will never be known whether it was something that could have been achieved. You can forget the rest of them with Labour they would have commanded 570 MPs which is nearly 90% of the house.
They had the majority numbers so they thought about pushing through their own Brexit and wanted to consolidate it even further with the general election which didn't go to plan.
Don't get me wrong I'm glad things have turned out as they are but your comments on Theresa May were beyond laughable. I'd say David Davis like
Jesus f'ing christ..
Have a feeling there will be more to come.
Starting to wonder whether she might actually get the votes after all.
Is Eastbourne still a place where people Go to die? Wonder what promises he made, used to be like Cocoon down there.
He promised to vote for whatever deal May came back with apparently. He was a Remainer but Eastbourne voted Leave.
Mrs May is trying to manipulate the people into thinking this is the best we can make out of an inevitability.
She's lying and this must be stopped.
I suggest writing to your MP if you agree.
She's lying and this must be stopped.
I suggest writing to your MP if you agree.
We're going to end up relying on the extreme Brexit crowd to crash this horrible deal. Unbelievable..
That record is in the contest of our being part of EU bloc and, to some extent, buying into the EU's mission. Cut adrift, the UK is more likely to behave like the USA than the EU. In a sense the "special relationship" is genuine. All of the global studies of values, such as the world values survey, suggest our societal priorities are more similar to the USA than major European cultures such as germanic, nordic or latin european.
That's as likely as a white Christmas. Possible, but never gonna actually happen unless the heavens really open
I think you'll find that the UK takes EU legislation more seriously than most other EU nations. Especially when it comes to Health and Safety matters and working regulations. In fact you could say that on some issues we actually lead the EU. Go and have a look at a few Greek building sites.
Come on, they have all signed up to the same regulations. Sure some of them are more lax or less able to police the regulations than others. Some more corrupt than others. Why are you comapring the UK to one of the more challenged countries in the EU?
Anyhow, you are shifting the goalposts. The point isn't that we don't take legislation seriously. Rather that we will be less likely to pass that type of legislation outside the bloc.
Wow.. The most comprehensive poll yet. 20,000 people polled.
Don't forget that for 45 years the UK was part of the EU. Do you think we just sat here saying 'Oh yeah that's a good idea, we would never have thought of that one, ok we'll vote for it" If truth be known we were as much a part of the formation those laws as any other EU member. Even before we joined the EU there was nothing in the UK's make-up that would suggest we'd become like the Americans. OK the empire had gone but we were by no means some sad nation searching for some heroic country to emulate. We did and still do have some individuality and standing in the world.
Lloyd was always baked in as voting for it.