Did people blame the banks for the last recession or blame themselves for over-financing? There are plenty of people who are still lending more than they can afford now and Labour are the sole reason that the recession happened even though worldwide deregulation of the banking industry was to blame.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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We wont get all the vetoes if we go back in. We'll be expected to transfer to the Euro and accept Schengen. If we leave and ask to go back we are going back in a position of weakness.
Liam Fox backing May's deal.
Yes the government should put the country first. But they haven't, they've continued to spout the nonsense for the past 30 months about how great it's going to be and pandered to the uninformed. Don't see them changing now.
The truth is we have no idea what the EU would allow or what their conditions might be, simply because the EU themselves don't know. Each member state would have to discuss the possibility and formulate it's own opinion, then vote in the Council of Ministers, and I'll admit I don't know but vetos might come in to play as well.
The crucial point of this, and apologies for the repetition, is that if there is any possibility at all of the UK having to join the Euro and Schengen, and losing it's rebate and vetos then Leave will win any vote by a much increased margin. Calling for a referendum without finding this out first would be handing Brexit to Leave on a plate.
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I was thinking this point the other day, i guarantee that those who want a no deal brexit and think everything will be fine are the exact same people who still blame Labour for causing our last recession.
I'd love them to try and square the two trains of thought.
Well, whilst I don't directly blame Labour for the last recession, these things come in cycles and there is little you can do about it, I do blame them for presiding over the longest period of sustained economic growth in the UK, whilst not putting a single penny aside for a rainy day, squandering a chance to soften the blow of any future recession. Didn't those cnuts coin the phrase "No more boom & bust"?
I want to stay in the EU though
It's a chicken and egg argument. People were irresponsible borrowing money beyond their means but the financial institutions need to be above the average Joe asking for money and look harder at what they are offering. Especially the central bank. I was pointing at the fact that the Tories tend to point the finger consistently at the EU for all their issues and deflect away any shortcomings on their part.
A decent opposition should be able to wipe the floor with them.
I don't mean if we don't leave. I mean that if we leave and in a year or 18 months go back cap in hand. I seriously think that if we say okay let's forget this that the EU will allow us to stay on the same terms that we currently have.
Erm they can't allow us to stay as we are out?
And the rules for new members are clearly defined
You might think they would change those rules... Personally I'm not sure they would... But for sure on a legal basis once we are out we would have to apply to join just the same as anybody else
Unicorns. This is why they're in this mess. Everyone is just walking towards doom with the mentality of 'it'll work out'.
I totally agree with your first point but you have to take into account the greed and immorality of the human being. People got rich off of selling loans. It mattered not if the people that the loans were made to could afford them. It was all about get rich quick.
On the second point. Yes the Tories like blaming the EU for our problems but if we leave and the problems get worse will the public continue to agree with them or believe that it was all the fault of the party who took them out of Europe?
No. I mean that if we have another referendum and vote to stay they will let us stay on the therms we currently have.
If we leave we are fecked. Both short term and long term by losing the benefits of being a founder member.
There is zero chance. New parliament which sits at the beginning of July in which the UK has no seats, they've gone, new Commission, council and new budget soon after until 2027. Terms will be different too with no escape clause.
Maybe I'm giving people too much credit but when the bite really hurts I would expect people to turn around and say but you said this would be better.
You are not founder member.
If we leave it will be devastating for the EU too. If there is a small chance of us staying I think they would jump at it. I believe that they said earlier that the only options now are the current deal, Hard Brexit or Cancel Brexit. They are open for Brexit to be cancelled because it is the option that causes least harm to the EU.
Of the EU we are.
But after 18 months the UK have already left long before. If the Uk are to cancel Brexit there is very little time left, after March 29th it's too late.
It won't be good for the EU but it won't be devastating, Ireland will suffer the most if there is no deal.
Can't talk for the other countries, but here it's accepted long ago that the UK are leaving in March and the mood of the EU is that they've offered the UK a deal, if they take it good but if they don't life goes on.
Brexit is now really only a big deal in the UK and probably Ireland.
Yes. If we are to avoid Brexit it would mean moving very quickly which is something that our governments are not good at.
You say that Ireland is the main area that will be affected but Germany exports large amounts to the UK it will have a large impact on the German economy.
The benefits you are referring to are way older than the formal EU but if you consider Maastricht as the starting point then fair enough.
Yes. We got our benefits from being there before the EU was formed. Part of the reason that the Tories gave for signing Maastricht was that they could restrict the Union from within.
We're going back to the BMW arguments here. Only 7% of Germany's exports go to the UK. They still have agreements with the other 26 EU countries and the other trade deals the EU have. Furthermore their borders are not going to be disrupted.
I love it, next year could be great Trump goes to jail and the UK put in their place
7% is a large portion of their exports. It won't be catastrophic but it will hurt Germany.
And 9.5% of Uk exports go to Germany, nevermind the rest of the EU.
Yes it will hurt but trade will still continue both ways.
What concerns me more is the disruption closed borders will cause, customs checks, documentation, certification, regulations etc which the Uk will have to deal with. The other EU countries only have this problem if they deal with the UK.
I know we have a far worse deal of it. I'm not saying that we will get a better deal because Germany and other will suffer from the fallout of Brexit just that they would be willing to forget Brexit if it meant that none of us felt the pain.
And the UK are currently part of the SM supply chain, a lot of products that transits through the UK are not meant for the UK, they are simply transiting but still counted. While the figures are interesting to have a mental idea of the volume of flux between the two countries, it doesn't tell you much about what would happen if the chain was cut. For example a seat belt produced in the UK can go to Germany, then go back in a car to the UK where they will add something to the car that will eventually go back to Germany. This process can be altered and bypass the UK, this is true for products that are meant for the british market too.
I know I work for a company that supplies parts for the Automotive industry.
The EU would welcome back the UK as I said if it's (well) before March 29th , otherwise it will be much much more complicated. The EU will be instigating no deal scenario after 11th December if the UK parliament vote the deal down.
I agree.
For sure, if by the UK leaving the EU countries will gradually focus on the other EU countries to avoid disruption and unnecessary problems. Complications cost money.
Most of the lorries that go in and out of the UK aren't British. Why would a European transporter want to have his lorries and drivers delayed in massive queues at Dover or Calais?
The documentation would be unreal nevermind the physical checks.
Tusk said today it will be no deal or no Brexit so I guess that is the choice if the vote doesn’t get through. No Brexit would be great. Imagine putting this shite behind us.
Yes but if they don't want no deal the UK has to cancel Brexit and quickly.
Well, whilst I don't directly blame Labour for the last recession, these things come in cycles and there is little you can do about it, I do blame them for presiding over the longest period of sustained economic growth in the UK, whilst not putting a single penny aside for a rainy day, squandering a chance to soften the blow of any future recession. Didn't those cnuts coin the phrase "No more boom & bust"?
I want to stay in the EU though
I never get that argument, would those who thought austerity was right following the banking crises not have still wanted it had we put some aside?
I don't think it would have made one bit of a difference to how hard of an austerity was imposed. It's not like we've reached a certain debt level that's suddenly acceptable.
I imagine the French are more concerned with rioting to care about brexit, you have enufff problems with your own eu loving leader to care about anyone else's issues. Same in belgium.
Rioting? Yobs in Paris last weekend. In our local town we had 6 blokes and a woman standing outside the Tax office taking selfies. Haven't seen anything all week. Filled up today and paid €1.37/litre.
Hardly been anything about Brexit for ages on TV.
There'll probably be something tomorrow in Paris. Le Pen and co. urging them on.