You have to admire JRM's determination to crash plus out. You would think he has money on the line.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Stats for lefties, huh? Guess that explains how shoddy their argument is, which seems based on everyone who voted Leave in 2016 holding the same opinion today/at the next GE.
Labour's position may be good politics (wait for the Tories to feck it up and then take power), but if we as a party actually have to implement our vague ideas of a 'jobs first' Brexit it will still feck the economy, albeit less so than May's plan.
Also we have now shifted to a pro-immigration stance after the Windrush debacle but many people voted leave due to immiigration. I am not sure how we as a party square that circle if and when we come to power.
Also we have now shifted to a pro-immigration stance after the Windrush debacle but many people voted leave due to immiigration. I am not sure how we as a party square that circle if and when we come to power.
No after being defeated in the commons a motion can be tabled for a vote of no confidence in the government and that requires a simple majority.
Suddenly your not feeling the whole facts and statics vibe anymore, that's odd.
“Stats” are useless if you don’t understand what they’re based on. The conclusion in that twitter thread being a great example of this.
Or, to quote an old lecturer of mine, they’re like bikinis... (you can guess the rest)
On the statistics line: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...100-pro-leave-constituencies-switch-to-remain
I don't think Corbyn is the reason people are disenfranchised with politics, his staying power is probably a result of that disenfranchisement as they are sick of the long line of Oxford PPE graduates like Cameron, Miliband, Campbell, Hunt, Hague etc all the way back to Heath and Wilson as well as the press who cover them from Peston to Murdoch.
I'm not a fan of Corbyn's stance on the EU but in general he's still refreshingly honest and unwavering for a modern politician.
Me too, but I could honestly see Johnson being so brass necked that as PM he stops brexit. Nothing would surprise me with him.
This this this! Infuriating seeing twitter folk congratulating him for his principled stand.
More speaking for myself tbh. I've never been that enamored by politics and politicians (think most are useless, corrupt and/or dishonest), and as time goes by they compound my beliefs... Hear it a lot in my casual convos too.
Edit: A guy just said pretty much the same thing on the news segment I'm watching
Yup that's the biggest issue
I firmly stand behind Labours decision as anything else would have ended up with votes going to UKIP, however, at some point Labour leave voters are going to get betrayed it's just hitting the right time so that a lot of them have been turned and understand why.
I'm sure the shadow cabinet are hoping a cross-party push for a second vote forms so it never has to be official party policy.
A view from 'the enemy' - May has misunderstood Brexit. In her head, all you have to do is end freedom of movement, and that's it. While it's true immigration was a part of it for some people, for others (like myself), sovereignty was the biggest part. And I think most Brexiteer MPs think the same. Hence why this deal she's got is so unpalatable.
You really think Corbyn and Labour have been in anyway honest throughout the major issue that has dominated his tenure?
When pressed they've essentially taken the same ambiguous nonsensical position on Brexit as the Tories 'we'll get a deal that protects British jobs and workers whilst fulfilling the democratic mandate to Leave' when in reality any such deal would fail their own nonsensical '6 tests'.
About 80% by my estimation.
The Lib Dems
Voting for the Lib Dems under Cable is such a vacuous, nothing vote. They wouldn't get anything done, they couldn't even get PR/AV when in government. Useless. Don't mind a socialist Labour party but Corbyn's views on Europe really requires a split. Same with the Tories. FPTP has produced these hodgepodge parties which only work when they stay centre/centre-right like under Blair and Cameron. Neither party can or is doing that.
Then again I have a viable third option where I am, which can't be said for the majority of the electorate.
Then again I have a viable third option where I am, which can't be said for the majority of the electorate.
So the bigger part was something that you were never going to gain from brexit because you didn't lose it?
Politics: I can cure all diseases in the World and make us all live forvever, and I can do it for free. Public: better believing this than reality.
I was just using that one lib dem as example of their overall uselessness rather than their official stance on Brexit.
Perhaps, but right now her problem isn't 80% of people who want to end immigration.
What do you mean?
Apologies. I'm just producing a number to illustrate what I believe.
I assume he is saying that sovereignty wasn't lost in any real sense from Parliament when we joined the EU.
On that note though - if we do crash out on WTO rules, then we will be subject to WTO rules and regulations and subject to the decisions of the WTO Dispute Settlement Body. Honest question - how does the sovereignty objection toward the EU not also apply to the WTO and the myriad of other multinational organisations and agreements the UK is party to?
An amusing aside to all this, even though extremely unlikely, would be the UK accepting the deal and then being rejected by the EU because it is far from certain that the EU as a whole will agree when the final agreement is ready because they deem it too generous to the UK.
The UK never lost its sovereignty.
I don’t think anyone’s accused him of being honest. Taking a decisive stance on such a divisive issues could be electoral suicide.
And for what? He can’t call a second referendum, he can’t reverse the decision to trigger article 50. He doesn’t have any power. All of those asking him to be strong in his opposition to Brexit don’t realise the damage that could do him. He has enough smears coming his way as it is – The Murdoch press would never let the people forget that he betrayed their vote.
He’s taken the wait and see approach so the current or previous poll figures are as irrelevant as Tony Blair. The entire point is to allow the Tories to tear themselves apart – Which they are kindly doing. They have the power, the responsibility and they’ve botched it spectacularly from Cameron to now. It will be open season on their party come the general election, whenever that is – That is when the polls will shift. Brexit was Labour’s major weakness in the last campaign as there was pressure to commit – That will not be an issue next time. They will win IMO.
Yeah it's just given it back to most of the countries it took it from
I was wondering this, don't all countries have to agree to the deal? You just know Estonia are waiting in the wings to troll everyone.
Malta going in for the kill.
No, a certain percentage of the overall population need to, I believe. That's what I read somewhere on the interwebz earlier so it must be true.
I can't remember what the percentage is so I'll just go with 69%.
What is it about modern British politicians that leads you to believe you would be better off with more sovereignty?
I'm sure you understand that even if you go it entirely alone, there will be rules you will be expected to adhere to? If you want to trade with the EU or anyone else you will have to meet certain regulations - only if you go it alone, you will have less influence on setting those regulations.
I've heard quite a few people claim they are better than the racists/xenophobes because they voted Brexit for sovereignty. But at least the racist feckers understand what it is they wanted when they were voting. The poor unfortunates who seem to think Britain is still an empire and should still be writing one set of rules for themselves to live by and another set for the rest of the world are truly lost.
Oh come on that's not fair they were a great help to the tories last time around. Honestly they are the oddest political party around.
This thread is better than CNN coverage.
I don't think it's Estonia to worry about, the major countries will be examining it very closely when they have the final text and will be ensuring that the UK does not gain any advantage. It's only a draft at the moment.
But... but... sovereignty.
You hear that a lot from Brexiteers. What does it even mean? The stumbling blocks to Brexit are about aligning regulatory and trade legislation to allow the UK to continue to operate effectively on the margin of a massive network of countries that have already solved these issues.
What the feck does sovereignty have to do with anything? Can someone please come up with one hypothetical scenario where the Uk will benefit from this hypothetical future sovereignty? Because I’m stumped. If the way your government has handles this whole Brexit SNAFU is an example of how effectively the Uk can operate in isolation when it comes to complex, challening situations then god help you all.