It depends what it is. If it secures free trade, trade laws and reasonably free movement then its better than dropping off a cliff.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I’m not. I think there is every chance that people would still vote to leave.
Everybody I know who voted leave would still vote the same way.
That's why I put the most blame on the people that voted to leave .
Who votes for something you don't understand ?
Who votes a different way for fun or because they think it will keep muslims out ?
I'm aware a lot of protest votes too but even that to me is just mental either
As an ardent remainer I can easily understand the sentiment. I’m in NI where no deal will be catastrophic and it’s pretty much inevitable IMO due to various conflicting interests in parliament. I don’t think we “should leave” obviously but long accepted that it’s going to happen and that the British people have made their bed to suffer in.
A second referendum is in itself a cop out and just undermines the concept of referendums going forwards – You either believe in their democratic value or you don’t. Of course the Brexiters argued in bad faith with lies told at every turn – That’s traditionally how democracy works. I’d consider every Conservative electoral victory to be won on false pretences – But it’s not grounds for another election.
Then getting to the obvious point that no second referendum is a guarantee of a remain victory, the potentially violent backlash that could follow a remain victory from an already alienated demographic and you’ll see it’s not all straight forward. If a second referendum is also contested with lies from Brexiters, as it can only be – Is the solution to a second leave victory a third referendum? Truth is it wouldn't be a second referendum - It would be an ultimatum to the British public.
It is good to see the masks truly coming off today though – With this deal we’re finally hearing the sentiment that Northern Ireland shouldn’t be a priority anyways. That a hard border, economic collapse and return to the good old days would be preferable to compromise. Foster and the DUP would be thrown into the Irish Sea if this were a normal country – Whether you believe in the union or not she’s a traitor to the people she represents.
Yep, its the equivilent of a huge supermarket chain having negotiated great deal terms with suppliers using their size as leverage, and then one shop breaking off and demanding the same preferential terms from those same suppliers. Not going to happen.
Well said, I completely agree with you. You would hope that the next elections in NI would reflect the growing anger and outrage at how the DUP have played this but both you and I know that they will get voted in regardless.
I don’t think it’s necessarily the confidence that it’ll be overturned, but rather the idea it would be a more conclusive acceptance.
The initial referendum was pretensed by criminal levels of misinformation, lies and feigned promises, so if there’s a possibility that a substantial number of those who voted leave now harbour regrets on account of feeling duped then they should be allowed to rectify that.
If the consensus is still to leave with all things considered then that’s fair enough and it should be honoured.
How is #1 a UK win anyway?
It's a diplomatic win more than anything else. A NI-only version would have been problematic for the UK for various reasons.
Won't surprise me if Brexiteers push for their own version of a second referendum.
Take this shit deal or leave without a deal.
Take this shit deal or leave without a deal.
Well said, people have no idea what is involved and think they are just going to copy and paste the deals the EU already has. The work will be astronomical and the UK don't have the expertise and experience to do it.
Another case of we'll just carry on , not much will change. Ha! There's a big awakening approaching.
Also, people still ignoring the devastating effect a border with the slightest friction will cause.
Well they were warned but they're not listening.
Easiest trade deal in history Paul, remember?
Yes, as I said above the UK don't have the expertise or experience which is a polite way of saying they haven't got a bloody clue.
I was going to ask you, since I retired two years ago I haven't been involved in the business but our biggest individual customer was in Nigeria and at that time Nigeria was facing massive problems with obtaining foreign currency and also banning the imports of many products so that they were manufactured locally. Do you know if the situation has changed?
By the way I'm reliably informed that the UK love foreigners so why should there be a problem with just a few right wing extremists?
That's a really optimistic assessment. A second referendum would probably push people to further extremes (for the Farages of the world, it's further evidence of elites ignoring the common man). And I expect that case is easier to make than a positive EU flag-draped "let's stay in" campaign. Very few people love the EU, but a lot definitely hate it.
The Farages of this world are the ones that lied openly to the common man in the first place.
What is this fantasy they come out with about negotiating our own trade deals?
Negotiate with the whole of the European market, or with one country. Now who do you think is going to come out with the best deal?
Duh.
Negotiate with the whole of the European market, or with one country. Now who do you think is going to come out with the best deal?
Duh.
The situation has eased. The economy is still in the shitter due to mismanagement (prejected growthgof 1.9% for the year) but a lot better than the dark days of 2015/2016.
The reason for the restriction was that, for years, Nigeria had supported its currency with the use of its foreign reserves. The price of oil made that somewhat manageable. When oil crashed in 2015, it became difficult. The country burnt through a third of it's reserves in a little over six months. The new government felt it had little choice but to change to a free float currency regime. The £ went from about ₦200 to ₦600 even more on the black market. So the government imposed currency restrictions and import controls. Around that period, it took my parents 3 months to purchase $10,000
Now the £ is about 450 Price of oil going back up has contributed to that. There are still some import controls, especially agricultural. Some capital controls are still in place as well. But these are mostly for individuals not businesses.
The sad part is a lot of business that depended on forex went bust during that period.
Thanks for that. Glad to know it's improving. At that time we persuaded the owner (very rich) of the company we were dealing with (and probably still are) to give a personal guarantee to our bank in London in case the company was unable to pay due to a lack of currency.
Well yeah. I'm just saying how I see things playing out.
Brexiteers on the deal: this is the wrong deal. It is a betreyal of the woll of the people.
Remainers on the deal: this the wrong deal, it is not as good as the deal we had before
Brexiteers on remainers: they need to shut up and accept the result.
Some serious hypocrisy to think only leavers can have a say
Remainers on the deal: this the wrong deal, it is not as good as the deal we had before
Brexiteers on remainers: they need to shut up and accept the result.
Some serious hypocrisy to think only leavers can have a say
I think the ERG will vote for it.
I wouldn't be surprised.... Get this deal in place... Let may carry the blame ... Boot her out and install mogg or Johnson as leader then move to a Canada style deal
Same. All bark and no bite.
I think the woll has been pulled over people's eyes.
Does Canada have a land border with the EU? I think that is the vital difference.
One day it will.
Of course they will. What's been lost in discourse is that negotiations over future trade have yet to begin. That is where the real issues lie.
This thread has another couple of years to run...
at least - 2 years actually sounds pretty optimistic to me to negotiate a comprehensive trade dealThis thread has another couple of years to run...
i think canada took 7 years?
and I think it took Russia 18 years to agree its WTO schedule - so yeah i suspect there are at least s few more years to go - even if we crashed out with No deal on 29th Marh Im pretty sure talks would start almost straight away about a new deal so staying in (if A50 eve allows that) will probably be the only way we dont have the protracted talks
I agree that they will vote for it but the reason they are so scared is, the withdrawal agreement forms a basis for the future relationship. The government will deny this but everyone knows it will.
Of course it will. The ‘backstop’ is basically attractive enough to the EU as a permanent situation that they don’t have much incentive to give concessions on a bespoke free trade agreement.
The government has given a masterclass in terrible negotiating strategy. It began with triggering article 50 prematurely, which they just gave up without laying out the structure of the withdrawal negotiation first. The UK had huge power to be distributive and obstructive while still within the EU to push for what it wanted. As soon as they triggered Article 50, the EU had the upper hand. I mean, the UK could have just kept vetoing the EU budget until it won concessions.
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I think the EU have categoricaly said that a Canada ++ style arrangement would remain on the table in the transition period though
they may vote it down anyway being confident enough that defeating the bill would force May out and a eurosceptic would win the conservative leadership - which seems very likely - there is of course though a small risk that they defeat May and rather than face a vote of confidence in the house she rolls the dice and calls a general election or 2nd referendum (uniikley I think)
but the risk free option is let her get the deal through then moan about it and oust her in the new year and get JRM, Boris or Davis in charge to drive the bus (with a 350m a week logo on the side) straight off the cliff
This thread has another couple of years to run...
If this deal goes through there should be a new BINO thread which will actually last forever or until the UK rejoins.
Do you think the Canada ++ or whatever shit it's called can pass through parliament?
Im not sure what can / cant to be honest - but I think if it was proposed by a conservative leader then you would probably get the vast majority of the conservatives vote for it - perhaps the odd one like ken clarke who wouldnt
DUP - Im genuinely not sure but they seem to be ver close to the ERG who propose such a deal so i guess there is a reasonable chance they would get on board
so probably it could as there would be a few labour leave people who i think would back it as well
Ahh Jesus, this whole farce is quite fecking funny .
Possibly the longest that a really particularly stupid idea has ever ran for.
Is it just pigshit ignorance and americanesque bleating on about "MUH SOVREIGNTY" that doesn't have this dead in the water yet?
.Possibly the longest that a really particularly stupid idea has ever ran for.
Is it just pigshit ignorance and americanesque bleating on about "MUH SOVREIGNTY" that doesn't have this dead in the water yet?
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Look at this plonker.