Also feel like they'd rather not let remainers get their way at the expense of the country.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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Also feel like they'd rather not let remainers get their way at the expense of the country.
Last year's election showed that there are some liberal Tories who'll plop for Labour depending on the circumstances. Most people don't vote Lib Dem because in the majority of the country they don't stand a chance. They aren't going to improve their chances because they're crap at marketing themselves, actually coming up with coherent policies, and continue to be tainted by the coalition years.
Farage said explicitly the fight wouldn't be over if Remain won narrowly.
Brexiteers are lining up their entire failures and blaming anyone but themselves. They're blaming the EU, Ireland, "remoaners", May, judges, remainer MPs, . . . .
The hardliners have taken control and are sabotaging the very brexit they long for.
Brexit cannot even begin to succeed unless it recognises that nearly half of the UK don't want it in the first place. Politics is about bringing people with you, but the hardliners want it all and they're risking losing everything.
Next couple of months will be very interesting. A general election is probably more probable than a second vote. . . If a party offering a revote (Labour?) were elected then the EU would give time for that to happen.
I really think this is the only way around the UK not leaving, because the hardliner brexiteers cannot then claim that a new government has no mandate for a revote.
As i said leaving the EU its a bad idea imo. But how many referendums in this subject you think they should do? Because if the remainers win the second vote, i assume the brexiters are going to start a campaign for a third referendum in the next day.
Yea it's difficult isn't it. Even in relation to the protest, how many of those that attended voted leave but now want remain. I am guessing nearly all voted remain in the first instance. But given everything that's come to light it would be better to have amother vote since people are a lot more informed now.
A wise man once said "it's better to make the wrong decision early, than the right one too late"
I'd want a second vote.
But how long after the next referendum do we have another? There's such strong support from both sides that it could go on indefinitely.
But how long after the next referendum do we have another? There's such strong support from both sides that it could go on indefinitely.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wor...wcG7GUpJF9PGnRtrtlwU7T8heyMj7fXuaIFXE5-9JQBAA
On the Poland-Ukraine frontier, ‘frictionless border’ is a joke
The EU is vigilant about its borders. Brexit negotiators could learn valuable lessons here
On the Poland-Ukraine frontier, ‘frictionless border’ is a joke
The EU is vigilant about its borders. Brexit negotiators could learn valuable lessons here
If circumstances were to change materially after a victory for Remain in this hypothetical second referendum, then leavers can have a third referendum. But somehow I doubt the EU is going to turn around and say “on second thoughts, you can have some unprecedented bespoke deal that allows you to cherry pick some of the main benefits of membership”.
Ultimately, this question needs to be decided by pragmatism rather than appeals to political theory. A nation of 65m is about to take a very foolish course of action (Brexiteers still cannot suggest any tangible, quantifiable benefits) on the basis of an extremely narrow victory in a referendum campaign filled with wishful thinking and outright lies.
If a majority were to vote to leave a second time based on today’s facts, then so be it. In reality, I’d expect a c.55% victory for remain, with changing demographics then ensuring that the leave side could never obtain a majority again.
The responses to this tweet are outstanding. An elected representative literally being schooled by the general public.
There really should be a system in place in democracies where if you post shit like this or similar you're booted from your position there and then.
The way some people go on, you'd swear no country ever had a second people's vote before.
The funny thing is, if any referendum justifies a second vote, it's this one. It will have been almost three years since the original vote, and what was promised back then is now not remotely being delivered if you do leave, there's no extra money for the NHS and people aren't getting their glorious Britain back as they thought they would. When leave won, nobody mentioned any sort of 'deal', now everything hinges on getting one for the UK. The biggest problem of all, the Irish border - was basically not even mentioned (a massive failure by the remain campaign) during the referendum.
You hear all this shite about "respecting the people's decision", but surely almost three years after they originally made a decision, they're actually better equipped now to make it? It's just basic logic.
The funny thing is, if any referendum justifies a second vote, it's this one. It will have been almost three years since the original vote, and what was promised back then is now not remotely being delivered if you do leave, there's no extra money for the NHS and people aren't getting their glorious Britain back as they thought they would. When leave won, nobody mentioned any sort of 'deal', now everything hinges on getting one for the UK. The biggest problem of all, the Irish border - was basically not even mentioned (a massive failure by the remain campaign) during the referendum.
You hear all this shite about "respecting the people's decision", but surely almost three years after they originally made a decision, they're actually better equipped now to make it? It's just basic logic.
Something that you won't see on pictures, there are fleets of mobile customs too. The roads are monitored and customs officers will go after you if they feel like it. There is also the border police in these areas.
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Yeah but there are only 260+ border crossings, so how hard can it be?
The Customs Border is occupied by staff taking money for vignettes.
I do wonder how a basic maintenance of exit terms would have smoothed over or prevented Brexit. It seems like something very forseeble was kicked down the road indefinitely especially with the impact of the GFA etc.
oddly no reply back from him
It will have done it jobs though. The original tweet has 1500+ likes despite all the corrections below it. The people who want to believe in sunny uplands will take him at his word without looking further. There really should be implications for lying on social media for politicians.
I voted Remain, but honestly how embarrassing is it that 700k people marched for a new referendum?
If it actually happened, I'd vote to leave, Brexit means Brexit after all
If it actually happened, I'd vote to leave, Brexit means Brexit after all
Would be funny if the 2nd referendum still voted brexit
Embarrassing in what way?I voted Remain, but honestly how embarrassing is it that 700k people marched for a new referendum?
If it actually happened, I'd vote to leave, Brexit means Brexit after all
With regards to MPs being ill informed there are two possibilities
1) They spread misinformation because they simply don't do any research
2) They know full well what they are saying and choose to lie in order to further their political objectives
Wouldn't be surprised if 2 was correct in the majority of cases. These politicians will throw the country under the bus if it results in short time financial or political gains.
1) They spread misinformation because they simply don't do any research
2) They know full well what they are saying and choose to lie in order to further their political objectives
Wouldn't be surprised if 2 was correct in the majority of cases. These politicians will throw the country under the bus if it results in short time financial or political gains.
How is it not embarrassing?
A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.
I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.
We need to start doing tests before politicians can go for office.
In the real world, there is absolutely no job that doesn't require a vetting process to see if someone is mentally capable, why should it be any different for politicians?
If shoe was on the other foot, it would be the same. If you don't like something, you complain especially if you felt that it happened because scrupulous tactics. It's easy for us to sit on a forum complaining about the negative effects of Brexit but are any of us actually trying to do something which could prevent it?
I voted Remain, but honestly how embarrassing is it that 700k people marched for a new referendum?
If it actually happened, I'd vote to leave, Brexit means Brexit after all
Strange post. Let's not reverse a decision because it would be embarrassing and then follow up with a stereotype of the Brexit voter.
And that is embarrasing how? Of course if something is having a negative impact you would want it reversed!
Dont tell me, "will of the people" means people should just ignore the damage this is doing, and will continue to do, to the country because of an advisory ref brought in simply to try and stop Tory infighting.
What's more embarassing?
Voting to destroy your own country OR Realising you have made a huge mistake and giving the public an option to possibly avoid disaster.
We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.
The picture was clearly a joke tbf.
This is what democracy is unfortunately.
Don't get it confused, I don't like anything about Brexit - but I think it would be disastrous if we try to re-do elections just because the outcome isn't ideal.
What happens if it's voted for again? Do we do it a third time?
Do you see how easy this can set a dangerous precedent for what democracy truly means?
True not like we ever re-do elections. We live in a democracy, and this is democracy but we never re-do elections.
Would you be less embarrassed if they were working class, or from the North?
As for protesting against “a democratic decision that went against what they wanted” should Americans be embarrassed about all the protest marches against Trump?
They quite literally bussed protesters in from ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
Great shout!
Hasn't the Vote Leave been found to have illegally broken the campaign finances regulations?
Nope, that comment was pretty tongue-in-cheek tbf. I'm a middle class Southerner after all.
You're conflating two different things.
They marched to get a second referendum because the outcome of the first referendum wasn't ideal.
If Americans marched to get Hilary sworn in because she won the popular vote - yeah I'd think that's pretty embarrassing too.
That's different to marching against Trump because he's racist, sexist or whatever -ist he shows himself to be.
Not everyone was southern & middle class obviously, I think it's pretty obvious I wasn't identifying every single person who attended it.
But I was in the area and spoke with a bunch of people who were marching, and that helped form my opinion that it's pointless marching to change a democratically voted decision.
March for the policies that will impact the decision, march against MPs who helped push the Brexit agenda in the first place - those are things that can have tangible effects in the future.
But marching to try to reverse the decision that millions of people voted for? What's the point, and where does it stop?
We get a second referendum and Brexit is reversed. Does the Leave campaign do the same as Remain and we get a third referendum?
We get a second referendum and Brexit is voted for again - do we march to try and get it changed again?
I think that investigation is still ongoing is it not?
But if there's tangible evidence that can link the financing affecting the vote then that's a better foundation to build an argument against the vote.
Nar, that’s absolutely nothing at all
like protesting for a new clear more informed referendum now that the UK has much more of an idea what a likely no deal Brexit means for the country.
The Initial Investigation fined them £61k and reported two people to the police. So, been found guilty.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...electoral-law-and-british-democracy-is-shaken
The point is that we don't just dislike the outcome but we also find the dishonesty harmful to the country.
Wait what? So even if we ignore the campaign spending and where these funds actually came from, Cambridge Analytica and Aggregate IQ and whatever else they dig up, we should just carry on regardless and ignore the blatant lying that took place?
Do we think if the original vote had been remain, Farage et all would have quietly slunk back into the shadows and not asked for another ref? They even said as much before the vote in the event that it might be a close run thing.
If we have a second ref, with a clear mandate on what it actually entails and people still vote leave, then fair enough. And again, if Remain win I have no issue with leavers going on similar marches to request a 3rd ref if they feel the need given people are generally now much better informed on what will actually happen.
Although I can almost guarantee a leaver march would be a) significalty smaller and b) not nearly as peacefull.
Edit - Sorry, to add, I would say you also shouldnt ignore the personal aspect of marches like this. Lots of people are worried about the impact this will have on their lives and may not have anyone they can freely discuss their concerns with. Being involved in such a big undertaking with many like minded people lets you know you are not alone.
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