Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Paul the Wolf]

Britain might not have been part of the scheme but they have taken refugees at numbers higher than those quoted for all those countries with 10000 from Syria alone.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43826163

On your other point. I would argue that its best to keep refugees as close to their homeland as possible and strive to give them the best conditions possible in their temporary homes until they can return home.

The streets being paved with gold in Europe invariably proves to be a myth for them for a variety of reasons.

But that was just that relocation scheme, other countries particularly western European countries have taken far more as a percentage of the population than the UK (not just the numbers in that list).

Regarding the Syrian/Iraq refugees they are/were very close to home as Turkey, Lebanon and Iran are the bordering countries, there's nowhere closer, but how are these countries supposed to cope with such a large volume of refugees.
As you say the UK took in 10000 Syrian refugees , how would they cope with millions?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

But that was just that relocation scheme, other countries particularly western European countries have taken far more as a percentage of the population than the UK (not just the numbers in that list).

Regarding the Syrian/Iraq refugees they are/were very close to home as Turkey, Lebanon and Iran are the bordering countries, there's nowhere closer, but how are these countries supposed to cope with such a large volume of refugees.
As you say the UK took in 10000 Syrian refugees , how would they cope with millions?

Britain could cope with millions economically, just not politically. The close proximity countries would be given mass scale financial aid from European countries, the approach that Cameron advocated from the start and the approach that was taken by the EU eventually after mass chaos was caused by the supposed humanitarian approach from Merkal.

 

[Abizzz]

Britain could cope with millions economically, just not politically. The close proximity countries would be given mass scale financial aid from European countries, the approach that Cameron advocated from the start and the approach that was taken by the EU eventually after mass chaos was caused by the supposed humanitarian approach from Merkal.

Neither Merkel nor Germany moved away from that "supposed humanitarian approach". The mass chaos wasn't created by the destination of the refugees, it was created by their countries of origin and those countries involved there for decades/centuries.

Britain could cope perfectly. It just doesn't want to.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Neither Merkel nor Germany moved away from that "supposed humanitarian approach". The mass chaos wasn't created by the destination of the refugees, it was created by their countries of origin and those countries involved there for decades/centuries.

Britain could cope perfectly. It just doesn't want to.

Most of the migrants were of the economic opportunists encouraged by Merkel's rhetoric at being accepted in Germany. In reality, the promised land for them, or just a safe haven for refugees has proven to be a myth.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/06/europe/angela-merkel-migration-germany-intl/index.html

Their policy has changed

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/world/europe/angela-merkel-migration-coalition.html

I said that Britain could cope economically but not politically. Even Germany couldn't cope politically.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Britain could cope with millions economically, just not politically. The close proximity countries would be given mass scale financial aid from European countries, the approach that Cameron advocated from the start and the approach that was taken by the EU eventually after mass chaos was caused by the supposed humanitarian approach from Merkal.

You said in your earlier post that Turkey's would lead to poor treatment of refugees but this is where the supposed safe haven is. The Uk are trying to cut back on international aid.

How do you know that the 6 million Syrian refugees or what percentage of them were supposedly economic opportunists?
Who says the streets of Europe are paved with gold.
Merkel was criticised for taking them in and for not taking them in.

Immigrants from outside Europe have been trying to get from Calais to the UK for years, why, because they believe the UK will give them money, a house to live in etc, where does this myth originate from.

Politically for sure the Uk and most countries could not cope.

As we're in the Brexit thread, a major cause for Brexit was the supposed flood of immigrants into the UK from Europe, these are the people working and contributing to society and they have been rejected by not only the Brexiters but by the Tory and Labour Parties in their Brexit stance and because the UK supposedly are being hit economically by them. Although this is false how could the UK cope economically with refugees who have no jobs, money or housing on top of the legal immigrants.

Everyone is sympathetic to refugees as long as they don't affect them personally. I'm not just talking of the UK either.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

You said in your earlier post that Turkey's would lead to poor treatment of refugees but this is where the supposed safe haven is. The Uk are trying to cut back on international aid.

How do you know that the 6 million Syrian refugees or what percentage of them were supposedly economic opportunists?
Who says the streets of Europe are paved with gold.
Merkel was criticised for taking them in and for not taking them in.

Immigrants from outside Europe have been trying to get from Calais to the UK for years, why, because they believe the UK will give them money, a house to live in etc, where does this myth originate from.

Politically for sure the Uk and most countries could not cope.

As we're in the Brexit thread, a major cause for Brexit was the supposed flood of immigrants into the UK from Europe, these are the people working and contributing to society and they have been rejected by not only the Brexiters but by the Tory and Labour Parties in their Brexit stance and because the UK supposedly are being hit economically by them. Although this is false how could the UK cope economically with refugees who have no jobs, money or housing on top of the legal immigrants.

Everyone is sympathetic to refugees as long as they don't affect them personally. I'm not just talking of the UK either.

Because Turkey is still underfunded in that regard.

The UK offered the most financial aid to the refugee camps than any other country in the initial phase. I'm not sure what you mean about cutting back on international aid because the UK is one of the few European countries to hit the UN recommended level and May says that won't change last I heard.

The figures came from the EUs Frontex agency.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-not-refugees-eu-vice-president-a6836306.html

I agree with your general point regarding NIMBY though.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Because Turkey is still underfunded in that regard.

The UK offered the most financial aid to the refugee camps than any other country in the initial phase. I'm not sure what you mean about cutting back on international aid because the UK is one of the few European countries to hit the UN recommended level and May says that won't change last I heard.

The figures came from the EUs Frontex agency.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-not-refugees-eu-vice-president-a6836306.html

I agree with your general point regarding NIMBY though.

I saw this recent Frontex report which is quite long but can't see where it shows those refugees that come for economic reasons.

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2018...e-forum-on-fundamental-rights-report-2017.pdf

It suggests that the more recent waves of immigrants, ie from Libya are from more diversified countries which could suggest more for economic reasoning.

Yes you're right re aid, Uk is third behind USA and Germany but remember at the beginning of the year she was under pressure to reduce aid especially to countries like India.

 

[Abizzz]

Most of the migrants were of the economic opportunists encouraged by Merkel's rhetoric at being accepted in Germany. In reality, the promised land for them, or just a safe haven for refugees has proven to be a myth.

You've really fallen for Farage, haven't you? The first three countries of origin for 2017 where, 1)Syria, 2) Afghanisstan 2) Irak.

https://www.bamf.de/SharedDocs/Anla...n-zahlen-2017-asyl.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

Do tell me how peaceful those countries are, and how your often mentioned visionary Cameron contributed to said peace.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/06/europe/angela-merkel-migration-germany-intl/index.html

Their policy has changed

Some policies changed, some will change, but the actual policy of taking in refugees who arrive at our border hasn't.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/world/europe/angela-merkel-migration-coalition.html

I said that Britain could cope economically but not politically. Even Germany couldn't cope politically.

What are you on about? Germany even voted in the exact same coalition again just last year. Saying one can't cope politically is just a euphemism for one doesn't care enough.

 

[Ramshock]

Are we still pretending that this clusterfeck isnt the disaster it clearly is?

Bless!

 

[Ramshock]

Most of the migrants were of the economic opportunists encouraged by Merkel's rhetoric at being accepted in Germany. In reality, the promised land for them, or just a safe haven for refugees has proven to be a myth.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/06/europe/angela-merkel-migration-germany-intl/index.html

Their policy has changed

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/02/world/europe/angela-merkel-migration-coalition.html

I said that Britain could cope economically but not politically. Even Germany couldn't cope politically.

Britain tries to conquer the world then gets angry when the conquered follows it home.

 

[Abizzz]

Are we still pretending that this clusterfeck isnt the disaster it clearly is?

Bless!

Are we still pretending people being bombed and slaughtered choose to cross an ocean on tiny boats because a German chancellor says Germany will stick to the laws it's had for 50+ years?

Edit: Suddenly a lot less certain you meant me.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Saying one can't cope politically is just a euphemism for one doesn't care enough.

Britain tries to conquer the world then gets angry when the conquered follows it home.

That’s the way it is. Neither major UK party could remain in power with a similar approach to Germany by accepting as many refugees as they did in a similar space of time.

 

[Ramshock]

Are we still pretending people being bombed and slaughtered choose to cross an ocean on tiny boats because a German chancellor says Germany will stick to the laws it's had for 50+ years?

Edit: Suddenly a lot less certain you meant me.

Wtf does that have to do with Brexit?

 

[Steven Seagull]

Just over 200 days now.

 

[Abizzz]

Wtf does that have to do with Brexit?

Depending on who you listen to a lot or nearly nothing. I tend towards the second camp, but was answering another poster.

 

[Mozza]

Merkel's irresponsible rhetoric encouraged vast number of migrants to try to get to Europe. By the EU's own figures, the vast majority of the migrants were not refugees but opportunistic economic migrants buoyed by the promise of a new life in Europe from the German leader.

Myth. They refugee crisis was already on going when she offered to take them into Germany. Whether she'd said anything or not the refugees were coming

 

[Gee Male]

This thread is hilarious. The amount of time people spent banging on about unelected officials, and now the past couple of pages it has suddenly become all Merkel's fault.

Meanwhile, Barclays has become Ireland's biggest bank, and other big investment houses like Bank of America and JP Morgan are moving loads of people, senior people, to Dublin. That's happening right now. And that's not to mention other industries, and not to mention what is moving to Paris, Luxembourg, Frankfurt and elsewhere.

But at least those refugees aren't let in, right?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Government are just starting publishing the No Deal notices, should be fun reading.

Raab's speech: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/secretary-of-state-dominic-raabs-speech-on-no-deal-planning

 

[Rajma]

Government are just starting publishing the No Deal notices, should be fun reading.

Raab's speech: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/secretary-of-state-dominic-raabs-speech-on-no-deal-planning

Why we’re planning for no deal
And at the same time, naturally we have to got to consider the alternative possibility, that the EU does not match our ambition and pragmatism, and we do not reach a deal.

The feckers are so transparent, it's unbelievable.

 

[Smores]

Government are just starting publishing the No Deal notices, should be fun reading.

Raab's speech: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/secretary-of-state-dominic-raabs-speech-on-no-deal-planning

What amuses me the most is not so long ago they were saying they can't make any promises or statements because it would weaken their bargaining position. Now there's a long list of positions that we're going to take to maintain alignment with the EU

 

[balaks]

When is the easiest negotiation in human history starting?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The feckers are so transparent, it's unbelievable.

Davis was a lazy idiot but Raab comes across as totally out of his depth and hasn't a clue what he's doing. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic for the UK.

What amuses me the most is not so long ago they were saying they can't make any promises or statements because it would weaken their bargaining position. Now there's a long list of positions that we're going to take to maintain alignment with the EU

Never understood that, either they comply to EU regulations regarding the freedoms which means getting a deal or they don't and don't get a deal, their only bargaining position is the money which if they don't pay will cause them even more problems or people's lives they gamble with.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-prepare-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal

First set of Technical notices for No Deal in link above, haven't read any yet.

 

[Smores]

Just over 200 days now.

Do we all get a Brexit based advent calendar?

Maybe we should have brexit carrols too "On the second day of brexit my true love gave to me...2 curved banannas and a boat full of OAPs".

 

[balaks]

Do we all get a Brexit based advent calendar?

Maybe we should have brexit carrols too "On the second day of brexit my true love gave to me...2 curved banannas and a boat full of OAPs".

That would be awesome but instead of getting a nice chocolate gift every day we each have to stick a fiver into a bin and burn it. Then on the big day of Brexit freedom we are each gifted with a lovely big turd wrapped up in a bow.

 

[2ndTouch]

Government are just starting publishing the No Deal notices, should be fun reading.

Hope they come in good old "Protect and Survive"-Style

 

[Paul the Wolf]

As Brexiters are unable to list any realistic benefits of Brexit and as no deal is what the Brexiters really want, because they know they can't or shouldn't cherry pick, out means out after all, surely the benefits are hidden somewhere in these technical notices, can we find them.

 

[Jippy]

Do we all get a Brexit based advent calendar?

Maybe we should have brexit carrols too "On the second day of brexit my true love gave to me...2 curved banannas and a boat full of OAPs".

'five millllllllioon unemployed'

 

[sun_tzu]

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/how-to-prepare-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal

First set of Technical notices for No Deal in link above, haven't read any yet.

Ive just read a couple
and I'm not a lot clearer how this will all work for larger companies with transfer pricing.... I mean in this age of networked teams working on projects together what happens if say to deliver a UK project I have a team of 5 engineers 2 in the UK 1 in france and 2 in germany working up a solution and internally the german division / french division apply an internal charge - is this now subject to VAT? - honestly coudnt tell you after reading that? (would assume not as it would be so harmful to larger companies and a nightmare admin wise)

Also say I need a specialist crane from a supplier and they have maybe 2 in europe of the size required... if the Uk one is busy on a job do I have to have import papers (and pay a customs charge?) to bring over the one from the continent (which I might not know about till a day or two in advance) - honestly not sure how this will work at all but a really tricky area I think

both examples for a current highways project we are delivering in UK... probably due to happen around April 2019... gee thanks for the clarity in the guidance notes

Also the notes basically say we dont know what will happen with ireland but we want to treat it differently we just dont know how (paraphrasing) - so yeah I think No deal is looking likely as its clear there is no real vision as to how to solve the ireland boarder mess

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Ive just read a couple
and I'm not a lot clearer how this will all work for larger companies with transfer pricing.... I mean in this age of networked teams working on projects together what happens if say to deliver a UK project I have a team of 5 engineers 2 in the UK 1 in france and 2 in germany working up a solution and internally the german division / french division apply an internal charge - is this now subject to VAT? - honestly coudnt tell you after reading that? (would assume not as it would be so harmful to larger companies and a nightmare admin wise)

Also say I need a specialist crane from a supplier and they have maybe 2 in europe of the size required... if the Uk one is busy on a job do I have to have import papers (and pay a customs charge?) to bring over the one from the continent (which I might not know about till a day or two in advance) - honestly not sure how this will work at all but a really tricky area I think

both examples for a current highways project we are delivering in UK... probably due to happen around April 2019... gee thanks for the clarity in the guidance notes

Also the notes basically say we dont know what will happen with ireland but we want to treat it differently we just dont know how (paraphrasing) - so yeah I think No deal is looking likely as its clear there is no real vision as to how to solve the ireland boarder mess

Still haven't had a chance to read any but on your examples, for the crane I would guess you would have to declare it as a temporary import, which will be subject to customs check in and outwards + necessary documentation, the cost of the documentation + admin time + being stuck in ports plus any charge for bringing it into the Uk if there is one.

On the VAT I would think if your French or German office are separate companies from the UK and invoice the UK office, yes there would be VAT.

Overall it will be an admin nightmare as Brexiters drag the UK screaming into the 1950s.

Another point is how accurate these documents will be legally. Considering that just from reading Raab's speech they don't understand WTO rules and also expect to implement new trade deals they will have negotiated by day one which is 30 March 2019. Insanity.

 

[JPRouve]

Ive just read a couple
and I'm not a lot clearer how this will all work for larger companies with transfer pricing.... I mean in this age of networked teams working on projects together what happens if say to deliver a UK project I have a team of 5 engineers 2 in the UK 1 in france and 2 in germany working up a solution and internally the german division / french division apply an internal charge - is this now subject to VAT? - honestly coudnt tell you after reading that? (would assume not as it would be so harmful to larger companies and a nightmare admin wise)

Also say I need a specialist crane from a supplier and they have maybe 2 in europe of the size required... if the Uk one is busy on a job do I have to have import papers (and pay a customs charge?) to bring over the one from the continent (which I might not know about till a day or two in advance) - honestly not sure how this will work at all but a really tricky area I think

both examples for a current highways project we are delivering in UK... probably due to happen around April 2019... gee thanks for the clarity in the guidance notes

Also the notes basically say we dont know what will happen with ireland but we want to treat it differently we just dont know how (paraphrasing) - so yeah I think No deal is looking likely as its clear there is no real vision as to how to solve the ireland boarder mess

Don't you need a UK permit and registration and iirc you need import papers but not necessarily custom charges.

 

[Smores]

Do we all get a Brexit based advent calendar?

Maybe we should have brexit carrols too "On the second day of brexit my true love gave to me...2 curved banannas and a boat full of OAPs".

See now i can't help procrastinating...I've got

12 layers of red tape,
11 border crossings,
10-tion in Ireland
Nien trade deals,
8.5 net contribution,
7 years of Boris,
6 banks be leaving,
5 million freezing,
Four-ty miles of traffic,
3-dom of movement,
2 Bent bannans
And a boat full of OAPs

Here all week folks

 

[Jippy]

See now i can't help procrastinating...I've got

12 layers of red tape,
11 border crossings,
10-tion in Ireland
Nien trade deals,
8.5 net contribution,
7 years of Boris,
6 banks be leaving,
5 million freezing,
Four-ty miles of traffic,
3-dom of movement,
2 Bent bannans
And a boat full of OAPs

Here all week folks

 

[sun_tzu]

Still haven't had a chance to read any but on your examples, for the crane I would guess you would have to declare it as a temporary import, which will be subject to customs check in and outwards + necessary documentation, the cost of the documentation + admin time + being stuck in ports plus any charge for bringing it into the Uk if there is one.

On the VAT I would think if your French or German office are separate companies from the UK and invoice the UK office, yes there would be VAT.

Overall it will be an admin nightmare as Brexiters drag the UK screaming into the 1950s.

Another point is how accurate these documents will be legally. Considering that just from reading Raab's speech they don't understand WTO rules and also expect to implement new trade deals they will have negotiated by day one which is 30 March 2019. Insanity.

Initially Id think no on the French German as I would assume its under transfer pricing regs (though my accountant has just confirmed he is not sure how this will work based on the guidence) not an actual invoice etc... and as for the crane yeah and at over 40k a day for said crane then its a hefty bill if its in a port for a few days

 

[sun_tzu]

Don't you need a UK permit and registration and iirc you need import papers but not necessarily custom charges.

currently they just jump on a ferry along with 20 or so support wagons and rock up
Have never needed to do anything different to a UK hire at the moment (as I hire it from the UK arm of the crane company) - but i am wondering how that might change now as these companies have far more work in Europe than the UK the big stuff that pays for its self by travelling all over the continent will for sure become EU registered

 

[sullydnl]

See now i can't help procrastinating...I've got

12 layers of red tape,
11 border crossings,
10-tion in Ireland
Nien trade deals,
8.5 net contribution,
7 years of Boris,
6 banks be leaving,
5 million freezing,
Four-ty miles of traffic,
3-dom of movement,
2 Bent bannans
And a boat full of OAPs

Here all week folks

 

[Cheesy]

See now i can't help procrastinating...I've got

12 layers of red tape,
11 border crossings,
10-tion in Ireland
Nien trade deals,
8.5 net contribution,
7 years of Boris,
6 banks be leaving,
5 million freezing,
Four-ty miles of traffic,
3-dom of movement,
2 Bent bannans
And a boat full of OAPs

Here all week folks

Post of the fecking year.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Also say I need a specialist crane from a supplier and they have maybe 2 in europe of the size required... if the Uk one is busy on a job do I have to have import papers (and pay a customs charge?) to bring over the one from the continent (which I might not know about till a day or two in advance) - honestly not sure how this will work at all but a really tricky area I think

NO MORE FOREIGN CRANES. BRITISH JOBS FOR BRITISH CRANES.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

See now i can't help procrastinating...I've got

12 layers of red tape,
11 border crossings,
10-tion in Ireland
Nien trade deals,
8.5 net contribution,
7 years of Boris,
6 banks be leaving,
5 million freezing,
Four-ty miles of traffic,
3-dom of movement,
2 Bent bannans
And a boat full of OAPs

Here all week folks

Like it

The first boat load of OAPs from Spain should be leaving shortly.

 

[JPRouve]

currently they just jump on a ferry along with 20 or so support wagons and rock up
Have never needed to do anything different to a UK hire at the moment (as I hire it from the UK arm of the crane company) - but i am wondering how that might change now as these companies have far more work in Europe than the UK the big stuff that pays for its self by travelling all over the continent will for sure become EU registered

So, I looked around and currently registrations are recognized in all EU countries and qualifications too, so if I'm not mistaken the operator is also good to go. But in the scenario that you proposed things get complicated, you need several certificates for taxes, category and registration and that's without considering the driver/operator.

We might want to sort that one out urgently.