Enough to be a Remainer.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Enough to be a Remainer.
What is a positive hard Brexit? What are the axes that you would need to get in order to make it positive?
There isn't one. I was talking from a pro Brexit viewpoint. How they could blame her for the Brexit that we get not being the Brexit that they portrayed to get people to back them.
Our hero has returned. The gammons are out in force celebrating.
First time Farage has agreed with the EU, they don't accept Theresa May's plan either.
Putting himself in the firing line when it all goes wrong without a deal.
Two months until the EU summit with no sign of a sensible plan in sight.
Putting himself in the firing line when it all goes wrong without a deal.
Two months until the EU summit with no sign of a sensible plan in sight.
The cnut is back.
So I take it most people in this thread would argue the benefits of being in the EU outweigh the negatives? Asking because we're considering going in a similar direction here in Southern Africa, not sure if I should be for or against it.
It's not comparable really. Do your own research wrt your country. These things have big consequences some unintended.
It's a good thing. It's like any union, you pay your subs, follow union rules and in return you get better terms than you could negotiate alone
Who said that?
Meanwhile here in Brexit border land or as the Tories called it "ooohhh we like totes forgot about Northern Ireland chaps" Im still unsure as to what my wife and kids resident status will be if theres a hard border. So for you cnuts who think Brexit wont be that much of an upheaval for folks Id like to say thanks for allowing your shit to once again taint ours here over the water.
Why is there a question about your family’s residency status?
Sorry to hear that - hope you get it sorted.
Im hoping my partner's Irish passport will allow her to stay here without hassle but still concerned.
Economically there are huge advantages to a super-national structure in Europe;
- Stop wasting money on customs infrastructure that doesn't add value to imports
- Create a common market so there the are one set of rules to follow in Europe rather than 35
- Sell services and work across Europe without having to get permission from any government.
There are further advantages with promoting freedom and peace across Europe and the World, and more. There is also a huge potential advantage for defence; Considering the entire UK Navy is needed to protect our single aircraft carrier, operating a defensive strategy on a pan-European basis makes a lot of sense.
Ultimately though, who knows
Honestly it is idealogical as much as anything for me. I think that in a global sense, with the superpowers and emerging superpowers to the east and west - a united Europe is needed in order to “compete” on a global scale.
My wife and son are US born and have Irish passports whilst living in Northern Ireland (where I am from)
This and not just against the US, China and India (eventually). Only the EU has a chance of policing the global business giants successfully, each nation alone would be ignored
That’s where I am too. I’m also sick of Europe being America’s pet due to the post-war situation. It’s totally unnecessary in this day and age.
Where does letting brown people drown in the sea fit on the idealogical scale ? Yeah I get that leaving the EU for the UK isn't the greatest idea and considering the history of Europe having the EU just fall to shit wouldn't again be a great outcome but it has to be mentioned that the EU is a deeply problematic and racist political institution that is doing nothing to stop the rise of the far right.
Where did you glean all this information?
Perhaps it's because they are a racist institution that they are doing nothing to stop the rise of the far right?
I presume you do realise that the EU is a union of the 28 (soon to be 27) nations and is not run by overlords from another planet?
Just one of many examples.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-drowning-charity-mediterranean-a8423261.html
If you don't want to talk about the failures of liberalism then shut about fascism is the way I would put it.
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Here is the press release from the European Council which is made up of the 28 leaders of the 28 countries , (May, Merkel, Macron etc) who are from many different political parties, all voted for by their electorates. Are you saying all 28 countries are racists including the UK?
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2018/06/29/20180628-euco-conclusions-final/
Here is the press release from the European Council which is made up of the 28 leaders of the 28 countries , (May, Merkel, Macron etc) who are from many different political parties, all voted for by their electorates. Are you saying all 28 countries are racists including the UK?
http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2018/06/29/20180628-euco-conclusions-final/
Paul you should have stopped at smugglers.
Probably.
Hey whatever makes you feel better about kids drowning right ?
You do realize that the smugglers are the ones putting several dozens of people in small, barely functioning boats against money? And that also funnel a part of the candidates to slave markets?
They very much need to be stopped which shouldn't prevent us from helping africans too but that's a different topic to the one concerning smugglers and human exploitation.
Jesus wept.
Maybe the UK could take in more refugees, oh they opted out, didn't they?
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Of course they need to be stopped but how does turning boats already at sea and not saving people who are drowning the sea in way the answer to any this ?
Again from the article I posted
We all looked at disgust when the US & Trump where stealing people kids and putting them in cages but what trump supporters say - ''Well we don't know if these people are actually the parents to the kids their brining across the border'' ''There's a lot smuggling through the border'' etc. But to no surprise a hell of a lot us europeans are no different.
What needs to happens is genuine international help from the west(Sort of impossible I know because it's our fault Libya is the hell hole we see today)and not as the director of Amnesty International’s European institutions office says
Er I'm not sure what your point is here. I really don't like the UK government at all to the point where I'm trying to get a far left politician to be the prime minster but yes to answer the question I think the UK should take more refugees.
Not nearly as racists as your typical brexiteer though.
Your original point is that the EU is supposedly racist because the 28 leaders are supposedly pandering to the far right because some journalist in the Independent interpreted it that way. But in fact you are saying the EU council which is made up of prime ministers and presidents of all persuasions, left right and middle have announced that they won't encourage the smugglers.
Now if you are favouring a far left politician to be PM who doesn't even support freedom of movement to change things, firstly do you seriously think he would be elected if he accepted the number of refugees that other European countries take in even if he was that way inclined or once the UK have left will they be sending their ships to bring these refugees to the UK.
The problem is what to do with these refugees, what is your proposal?
Read the article I link to again. It isn't just one journalist
and
The article answer some of this.
Ok the Amnesty woman said the EU were pandering to xenophobic governments - so who said the EU is racist. Is she saying Italy has more sway than the UK France or Germany, I don't think so.
There are several problems here, stopping the smugglers putting people in unseaworthy boats - allowing them to do it and then going to rescue them isn't a solution. Which countries outside the EU are taking responsibility. Where are the refugees supposed to go when some countries like Germany are taking vast numbers and others like the UK are taking hardly any.
I don't have a solution but I'm going back to my original point as to why the EU could be seen as racist or that the EU is pandering to the far right. The far right are more prominent in the USA, in the UK as well as some other European countries - doesn't mean the whole of the EU is pro far right.
So one woman says so thus it must be so that all 28 European Countries are racist including Merkel who has been criticised for taking so many refugees but apparently runs the EU.
Look we live in a world where racism is completely linked to every part of our social and economic life so yeah all european countries are racist, there will be some who are more openly racist than others and visa versa but the eu policy on refugees when listening to the experts(I thought you lot liked experts ?)is killing people and pandering to far right governments.
As my first post mentioned that doesn't mean we just destroy the EU but for those's who are pro EU for ideology reasons they have to also realise the pitfalls and failings of the it.
Pitfalls? How exactly do you think the situation would be better if the EU wasn’t there? The ultimate leaders of the EU are the same leaders of the individual states. If they’re not helping enough now, they certainly wouldn’t be if it was just their country making decisions alone.
I don't think I've met a remainer yet who doesn't understand and accept the disadvantages of the EU. The issue is that weighing up the benefits of no longer being governed by hypothetical situations do not outweigh the very real consequences of leaving and the benefits also to staying. It's much much much the lesser of two evils. Not to mention, when you're unhappy with something flawed, you work to fix it you don't throw a tantrum and walk away when you've already been treated favourably as it is. That is literally what children do.