Good grief
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Good grief
Clearly that isn't the reason they voted brexit. The impact of the expert view telling people they're idiots is that they start to reason that away, that the experts aren't all that and it's just opinion anyway. As a result they gravitate towards the brexit voices they already agree with and it validates their beliefs.
I'm pretty sure people haven't taken that lesson to heart but thankfully a second referendum wouldn't be about the voter it would be attributing blame for this shambles. A much easier argument to convince people on.
There's an inevitability to treating your peers as children when their response to common sense explanations is to stick their fingers in their ears and shout"Na, Na, Na, Na, I'm not listening"
What have the EU done?
Britain have been a calamity so far.
There is still no plan 2 years on, what is the fecking plan? and it's the EU's fault? The EU clearly stated that Britain will not get to have their cake and eat it. Yet that's what Britain seem to want?
How the feck do you deal with someone that hasn't made their mind up on what they want yet?
Once the UK leaves and it ends up being a tad shyte, you'll be one of them blaming the fecking EU rather than the fact you were duped by this shitshow.
Home Office stopped author from speaking at UK festival, says publisher
Visa refusals mean Palestinian Nayrouz Qarmout unlikely to get to Edinburgh book festival
Visa refusals mean Palestinian Nayrouz Qarmout unlikely to get to Edinburgh book festival
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ayrouz-qarmout-speaking-uk-festival-edinburgh
It's essentially a quieter version of Trump's muslim ban and it's not just the UK doing it, the schengen region is similarly unfriendly when it comes to issuing visas to anyone from the ME, Pakistan, Indonesia etc. It took over 4 months last year to get a visa for our new Syrian Engineer based in Saudi to travel over to Belgium to visit the production plants and undergo 3 days training, the original idea of training him in the UK and then driving over to Belgium was a complete write off as the UK visa plus the schengen process would have taken over twice as long. This year we started much earlier as we were inviting him along with two Egyptian Engineers and our UAE based sales director for similar training in the Netherlands and hoping to get it completed before I leave the company in 2 weeks time. We've been pissed around and waiting for the last 5 months and have now been told they should all have their paperwork approved in late September making the trip largely pointless as I'll be gone by then.
Thought it was an extremely well crafted argument myself.
What I took away was a message about caring for others but … whatever, everyone to their own I suppose.
btw: There were two (2) analogies actually, and the second one could not possibly be anything to do with a child.
Which, unsurprisingly, leads me to believe that I doubt you read the whole thing before your knee-jerk reaction.
It's like playing Monopoly with a child who demands Mayfair for £100 despite it being valued at £400 and then screams and shouts when the child is laughed at. The adult has done nothing wrong but chuckle at the naive child having a tantrum.
Real wages? I dont agree.
Any rises in business costs post brexit are likely to get passed onto consumers.
Dyed in the wool Brexiters want no deal which is WTO rules.
Without a trade deal there will not be many zero tariffs.
Very few (if any) seem to understand what WTO rules mean.
The only thing worse than WTO rules is being refused entry into the WTO.
I readily admit I gave up reading well before the end. Long-winded analogies never work how they're intended. Quite a low percentage of short analogies too, I suspect.
Every now and again the odd Brexiter shows up.
Every now and again the odd visitor "I really did vote remain, honestly I did, no really I did...."
Europe are bullying the UK because they won't let the UK have their own way, how moronic is this statement. This usually comes from the same people who continue to say the EU needs the UK more than the other way round.
Then we have statements like "if we have to pay tariffs on produce from the EU we'll buy from the rest of the world instead."
It hasn't sunk in that all agreements, all of them, are null and void when the UK leave the EU so wherever the UK buys its produce from it will pay the same tariff under WTO rules. If the item is 44% under WTO rules from the EU, it's 44% from Australia as well, just takes a lot longer to get there.
I'll repeat again, tariffs are not the biggest problem, if the UK does not belong to the Customs Union and goes to WTO rules, a hard border will surround the UK and that will be a disaster.
Every now and again the odd visitor "I really did vote remain, honestly I did, no really I did...."
Europe are bullying the UK because they won't let the UK have their own way, how moronic is this statement. This usually comes from the same people who continue to say the EU needs the UK more than the other way round.
Then we have statements like "if we have to pay tariffs on produce from the EU we'll buy from the rest of the world instead."
It hasn't sunk in that all agreements, all of them, are null and void when the UK leave the EU so wherever the UK buys its produce from it will pay the same tariff under WTO rules. If the item is 44% under WTO rules from the EU, it's 44% from Australia as well, just takes a lot longer to get there.
I'll repeat again, tariffs are not the biggest problem, if the UK does not belong to the Customs Union and goes to WTO rules, a hard border will surround the UK and that will be a disaster.
Point taken, but … you didn't bother to write a strongly worded reply to the original poster did you? That's the person I was addressing with my comment.
EDIT: Read it again a few times and it is relevant I suppose!
I probably won't have an answer but why France and Germany in particular? It's amazing how France are either weak or a bully depending on the nonsense that the narrator wants to put forward.
Look up the actual position of Jacob Rees Mogg and Dan Hannan
Take your pic I guess. Either cos they're the biggest economies or they're historic enemies, albeit less so Germany.
If you want to well and truly win an argument, defeat your opponents strongest argument, not their weakest.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...-trade-free-market-institute-economic-affairs
https://www.cgdev.org/blog/beyond-brexit-unilateral-tariff-reduction-really-such-crazy-idea
https://www.ft.com/content/2a009b7c-2d71-11e6-bf8d-26294ad519fc
https://policyexchange.org.uk/brita...-tariffs-and-become-a-champion-of-free-trade/
https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2018/02/22/will-unilateral-free-trade-be-the-making-of-brexit/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776
These unilateral-free-tradeists are fanatics. Brexit is only a small part of their revolution. They want to scrap all import duties and make Britain a modern day Singapore. They have zero interest in arguments about immigration... they'd actually probably be pro-immigration although they wont admit it.
But the only thing they really care about is scrapping import duties. Chinese steel would be dirt cheap, clothes from India would cost only pennies, electronics from Asia would be much cheaper. They argue that services make up the vast majority of the UK economy, and services would benefit from cheap world wide goods.
Of course they are ridiculous fanatics. Our manufacturing sector would collapse unless others agreed to also drop their import tariffs. We'd have no rights to sell our services into Europe or America or anywhere else.
But it's the fantasy they've been dreaming of for decades. They have no interest in trade deals. They want revolution.
That's not what the dyed-in-the-wool brexiters want. They want to revert back to WTO rules, then unilaterally remove all import tariffs.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...-trade-free-market-institute-economic-affairs
https://www.cgdev.org/blog/beyond-brexit-unilateral-tariff-reduction-really-such-crazy-idea
https://www.ft.com/content/2a009b7c-2d71-11e6-bf8d-26294ad519fc
https://policyexchange.org.uk/brita...-tariffs-and-become-a-champion-of-free-trade/
https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2018/02/22/will-unilateral-free-trade-be-the-making-of-brexit/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776
These unilateral-free-tradeists are fanatics. Brexit is only a small part of their revolution. They want to scrap all import duties and make Britain a modern day Singapore. They have zero interest in arguments about immigration... they'd actually probably be pro-immigration although they wont admit it.
But the only thing they really care about is scrapping import duties. Chinese steel would be dirt cheap, clothes from India would cost only pennies, electronics from Asia would be much cheaper. They argue that services make up the vast majority of the UK economy, and services would benefit from cheap world wide goods.
Of course they are ridiculous fanatics. Our manufacturing sector would collapse unless others agreed to also drop their import tariffs. We'd have no rights to sell our services into Europe or America or anywhere else.
But it's the fantasy they've been dreaming of for decades. They have no interest in trade deals. They want revolution.
I don't have a problem with your analogy there (it's alright actually) but it ignores the original point I was making. I was probably being a bit of a dick in assuming your situation - apologies for that, but I'll maintain that the majority of people who 'wish' for an economic downturn are probably doing so from a position where they know they'll probably be alright. Certainly very few people will actively hope for their economic fortunes to decline.
That's important because...if you're not particularly well-off, why the feck are you going to listen to someone who clearly doesn't care about you at all and who's happy for economic misfortune to be inflicted upon you? If you're genuinely hoping for other people to find themselves in a position where they're struggling economically, just so you can be proven right, there's no reason as to why the people likely to be affected by that shouldn't feel anything other than antipathy for you.
I get it. Brexit's stupid. It's a silly, pointless venture that should've never happened. But if you're hoping for people to find themselves in a position where they're worse off economically you're probably (not you specifically - in a general sense of word) extraordinarily insulated from the conditions and societal problems that are currently making people angry and driving them to more extreme options.
The last point is moot - I've disagreed with Corbyn plenty and didn't vote for him last year.
Ah, yes, I see what you mean, but the rest of us live in the real world. The UK economy would collapse very very quickly.
So if I understand correctly, it's a fantasy based on an irrelevant historical past. Truth be told, Germany, France and the UK have been at the forefront of the EU and international politics in general because we all have industries that are very good at lobbying, our politicians have a relatively limited influence, they are more influenced than anything else. Also Brexit isn't a huge subject in french politics, in fact it's not a subject at all which makes this obsession with France or Germany really strange from where I stand.
You haven't seen the current Brexit catchphrases: "There will be rioting in the streets of Europe if the EU don't give us a deal" or "What will the French and Spanish farmers do when they can't sell their produce to the UK" - sell them elsewhere? but don't tell the Brexiters.
Chuck in our island mentality too- people forget or don't realise how much of a role UK lawyers played in writing the EU legislation.
Tbh the obsession with Germany and France is arguably the least stupid thing about Brexit.
It's actually an interesting subject, the UK are the sixth exports partner for France and the food industry isn't that big, most sales are in the heavy industry. Also France has Rungis which means that we have a bigger capacity to export anywhere.
Thought you were talking about the Leavers there, you know the ones that don't care about the effects of Brexit on their fellow man just as long as they get their country back?
Yes, quite, it's not that big, only 5% of France's total exports to the UK are animal or vegetable products and less than 5% of all their animal and vegetable products are exported to the UK.
Struggle with the whole 'Unless you're nice about us being completely fecking stupid it's pretty much your fault we voted for something completely fecking stupid in the first place' shift, if I'm honest. Brexit and Trump are two examples of what happens when the grown ups are shamed into being nice to the morons in case they hurt their feelings, and end up legitimising them and their choices. Not my bag, sorry.
If you think building a wall and that economic consequences aren't a thing, it's pretty low down on my priority list to make sure you feel validated as a human being.
If you think building a wall and that economic consequences aren't a thing, it's pretty low down on my priority list to make sure you feel validated as a human being.
[QUOTE="Jippy, post: 22945773, member: 47548"]Chuck in our island mentality too- people forget or don't realise how much of a role UK lawyers played in writing the EU legislation.
Tbh the obsession with Germany and France is arguably the least stupid thing about Brexit.[/QUOTE]
Probably the single most huge influencing factor in our relationship with Europe.
Tbh the obsession with Germany and France is arguably the least stupid thing about Brexit.[/QUOTE]
Probably the single most huge influencing factor in our relationship with Europe.
After 692 pages can someone finally coherently explain to me how Germany and France have bullied Britain? The British have started to expect foreign politicians to disregard the interests of their countries and own constituencies in order to satisfy a part of the British political class that invents grievances, numbers, accusations and lives and feeds of a class system that isn't fit for the 21st century.
It's completely ludicrous.
Why blame your own ineptitude when you can pin it on the EU? That's it in a nutshell for me and has been a consistent mantra in UK politics for decades. That aint gonna wash after next March though when the scapegoat is gone.
I agree, I've come to the same conclusion. I blame every politician who has blamed the EU for problems he or his/her party have created. In a sense May may have fast become the worst of them, coming up with unworkable idea after unworkable idea and then blaming the EU for pointing out the ways in which they are unworkable.
I fear they will be blaming the EU for a very long time after march though. (And the people in the EU will care about the faux complaints even less then they ever did before).
Yeah, fair point. I guess this thread has been going round in circles for ages, but the Tories still can't agree among themselves, let alone with the EU. I just hope these persistent rumours about Boris making a leadership bid are false. Given how batshit everything is at the moment, the fat stupid feck will probably win, quadrupling our misery.
Interesting, it's this bit that turned me from ambivalent to a firm leave person. Pathetic, and stupid, your comments about foreign politicians lol, it's exactly what you expect from UK politicians.
Should have kept insisting.
Why the subterfuge? So cringe...
Wow...we're online and anonymous too...
I'm not talking about being nice to Brexiteers, I'm talking about you being happy for an economic downturn that'll inevitably effect the worst off, many of whom hate Brexit as much as you do.
"I only started supporting Brexit after people kept on explaining to me how ridiculous and stupid it was."
bloody experts have ruined everything
"I only started supporting Brexit after people kept on explaining to me how ridiculous and stupid it was."
Reminds of a crazy relative I have who is always against experts. Whenever one is on TV making a point he immediately distrusts him/her and takes the opposite opinion. Last one was the old "vaccinations cause autism" bs. "All these experts were so quick to come out against it, there must be something to it", he said.
Except that it is British politicians printing lies on buses, leave politicians inventing EU laws just to complain about them etc.
See you think that holding the UK to commitments the UK has made is some sort of subjugation. If you were representing anything close to the majority of the UK and British people I would be glad to see you leave. But you're not. There's millions of decent Brits who know facts from lies, who can tell when a politician is pandering falsehoods to the gullible masses, who fecking know motorways weren't built to be car parks.
It's those people why we still want and need a deal.
I ask for a coherent explanation and all I get is "lol".
lol