Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Yep, its unreasonably low. Were 5% lower than the next lowest. Were not even applying our fairly pitiful rates to all businesses which is what that apple thing was about.
Well, they aren't. There's all sorts of Europeans working in the catering industry, I certainly don't see a prominence of Eastern Europeans, let alone an exclusivity. In fact I see more Southern Europeans than Eastern Europeans in all my local places in London. Which is interesting considering the number of migrants from Eastern Europe are many more than those Southern Europe by official numbers.
Eastern Europeans seem to dominate the construction work sector though in terms of foreign workers. Plenty of Brits working in construction too, since it pays much better than catering though it's arguably a lot harder work.
I'm not sure what the real question is though. Why are foreigners employed in the catering industry in the UK? Or why is not happening in Spain?
Who cares. Rollin' in the dollah. Multi-nationals are great.
That's a really good point!
Well I'm pretty sure it was just another version of 'why are those foreigners taking over our jobs'. And it's exactly this irrational sentiment being used until infinity that has killed the more valid discussions.
Based on casual observation, I am fairly sure there are foreigners in the catering industry in Spain but they are from LatAm and therefore less obviously “foreigners”, at least to another foreigner. Plus, as mentioned above, Spaniards can’t be as picky as Brits about doung low paid work with anti-social hours due to the much weaker jobs market.
Cosnervative rebels target Theresa May's Brexit plan
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44796517
Spelling standards at the BBC are on the decline.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44796517
Spelling standards at the BBC are on the decline.
Corporation tax makes no sense to me anyway.
Firstly the biggest corporations find ways to legally avoid paying it, gaining an advantage over smaller companies that can’t afford the buy-in cost for complex schemes involving tax havens and government concessions.
Secondly, increased net profits for firms means more money to invest into expansion, r&d, talent retention (salaries), dividends. So ultimately the money returns to the humans and that’s the point when it makes sense for me to tax it.
Firstly the biggest corporations find ways to legally avoid paying it, gaining an advantage over smaller companies that can’t afford the buy-in cost for complex schemes involving tax havens and government concessions.
Secondly, increased net profits for firms means more money to invest into expansion, r&d, talent retention (salaries), dividends. So ultimately the money returns to the humans and that’s the point when it makes sense for me to tax it.
Nope, it'll just be paid to the shareholders
Not guaranteed in the slightest. But in any case, dividends are taxed. So the govt still make their money and the shareholders are happy. Win-win.
Or the shareholders bury their returns off shore... 
I will never be tired of saying this:
If a person that is not native in your language (might not even speak it) with no family/friends networking, with bureaucratic burdens (being in EU does not allow you only to work in another country, there are prerequisites for all), not knowing the environment, culture etc... IF that person steal your job (and girlfriend/wife, just I heard that complain too half joke half true) is that you don't fecking deserve it. And no, is not only about the salary (specially girlfriend/wife). There are minimum wages and no, the salaries would not increase that much and if they would, so the cost of the services/products that would reflect that increase that will put you at square 0
If a person that is not native in your language (might not even speak it) with no family/friends networking, with bureaucratic burdens (being in EU does not allow you only to work in another country, there are prerequisites for all), not knowing the environment, culture etc... IF that person steal your job (and girlfriend/wife, just I heard that complain too half joke half true) is that you don't fecking deserve it. And no, is not only about the salary (specially girlfriend/wife). There are minimum wages and no, the salaries would not increase that much and if they would, so the cost of the services/products that would reflect that increase that will put you at square 0
I disagree, i think trickle down economics have been exposed as a total sham for a while.
Tell that to the Irish, yeah? Seems to work a treat for them. From one of the poorest to one of the richest in Europe thanks to basically not asking businesses to pay corporation tax.
Don’t want to derail the thread further though. This is about Brexit. Happy to discuss this at length in another thread
Well at least the Government can't exploit the high of winning a World Cup.
I wish the people cared and analysed Brexit as much as we did the England football team.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:62011CJ0300&from=EN
Just because we don't do it doesn't mean we can't.
It's just the cost of doing it would outstrip the benefits massively.
Why do you think it'll change afterwards when we've got the same politicians in charge? They all know the advantages of allowing people in, they're not suddenly going to stop exploiting them.
You're linking me a case of someone forbidden entry into the UK on the grounds of public safety because he was a French - Algerian on a flight from Algeria and he had suspected terrorist links.
What is the point you are trying to make again?
643 pages suggests people do. But in subjects of politics people can be a bit dogmatic, or entrenched in their views, and unlikely to yield to reason. So there's that
You might not get tired of saying it and I won't get tired of calling it one of the most laughable arguments ever in the history of argumentation.
Our riches have come at great expense to the rest of Europe. And i dont think the working class, middle class or Government services are doing so well as to be celebrating that much. Things have improved recently and its benefited Ireland a great deal, can't argue with you there. I don't think i'm that keen on debating it really. I get your position and I'm not that attached to my own really. I wouldn't put all our success down to corporation tax rates, being EU members is at least as relevant.
Come on. Surely you are being obtuse now?
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Absolutely. Part of the reason why I'm also pro-European and a remainer. EU membership has some pros and cons, but in my simple head the pros surpass the cons. The EU has many issues that still needs to resolve though, with or without the UK.
Having a central currency but with different economies of different gears and no centralised fiscal policy is, in the long term, a recipe for disaster. The inability for certain countries to devalue the currency by printing money (like the UK did) in the face of financial crises, nearly sunk the Med region. Interests among members conflict and they appear more competitors than partners at times.
Migration is another big problem. Both the legal and the illegal kind. A lot of people don't generally like the racial/ethnic profile of their country changing too fast. Change is inevitable, but the faster the rate of change the more people will kick back. Especially if there are financial crises when migrants will get inevitably scapegoated for it.
Call it xenophobia, racism, bigotry, or lack of education if you want... it's still a factor you can't ignore. It's a reality. We don't live in a Utopia. If we did Communism might have worked. Currently Schengen is under threat, borders are shutting across Europe and right-wing parties are gaining massive ground everywhere. We can keep harping on about how migration is beneficial all the way till the EU collapses and it won't matter one jot.
The scales are tipped drastically towards the Pro side for Ireland.
Whatever about the problems of migration today it'll become a problem won't it? With the rising temperatures large parts of the World will become uninhabitable and immigration to northern europe will explode you'd expect. From a humanitarian side you'd want to say take them in and do your best for them. From a selfish side ... it'd probably be tempting to lock a lot out and basically leave them to die
Been very confident thus far we would be heading toward a Norway style deal. Seemed the only common sense option.
Sad to see ultra brexiters get their own way as ramainers do nothing but gnash their teeth and complain. Very disappointing
Sad to see ultra brexiters get their own way as ramainers do nothing but gnash their teeth and complain. Very disappointing
Stealing other nations taxes isn't the most amazing trick and a uniform corporation tax across Europe would put an end to it
In fairness it is hard to stop gnashing teeth when we're told that we left to have more control over our borders and then the people who make that case then cite the 'Norway option', a country that is also signed up to freedom of movement and is also part of the Schengen agreement.
If all Remainers do is gnash their teeth I think you could class that as being extremely fecking polite.
I wonder what tricks the "ERG" has up it sleeve today in response to the white paper.
Is schengen part of the EEA agreement or something separate?
Schengen is the open border agreement, it's included for new members even though some are currently out of it(Romania, Bulgaria and Croatia).
Might not be the most amazing one but it’s certainly the oldest one and the chance of uniform corporation tax in EU is precisely 0%. It’s a pipe dream. Bear in mind we don’t even have uniform corporate taxes within the same country, think Isle of Man.
With no centralised federal budget and no large subsidies to the poorer regions, nations that already struggle to attract corporations would be fecked even harder as most of those corporations will set up in the countries with the best infrastructure to support them. I.e the more industrialised North. The South and the East would be fecked. They would rightfully never sign up to it.
Those subsidies exist in any country including the UK. It’s well known that money generated in London gets funnelled out to finance other parts of the country and subsidies are paid to Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and the poorer regions of England. Which is fair of course.
However in the EU this would be politically very tricky. Public would detest it (“why are we funding the lazy X”) and right wing politicians would attack it for their personal gain. Something that happens when there’s no homogeneity and nationalism still exists within the Union. Also people would then point to the unevenness of income tax and the existence of personal tax havens as opposed to corporate tax havens. Will that become uniform too?
Let me put it this way. The state things are at now, it’d be far far FAR more likely that EU breaks up than such extreme steps to integration are taken. There's no appetite for tighter integration at the moment.
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So if we went the EEA/EFTA route we wouldn’t have to join the Schengen Agreement?
Agreed. The fact they can barefaced lie and face no consequences, not even be called out on it, is baffling
EFTA is part of Schengen, I don't know their position in terms of new members exemptions.
This is what I was trying to explain to @JPRouve Think this will be the language on all these issues before we surrender.
Well while there is unemployment there should be no need to recruit from outside, how is that not glaringly obvious ?
Massive oversimplification. You need to match skills (and other factors) of the unemployed to the jobs available.
On top of the fact that not all unemployed people can do all jobs, there's also the fact that not all unemployed people want to do all jobs. It might be a very small percentage of the population but there's always the people who'd rather be on the dole than do menial jobs for little money. Or people who's choice is forced by logic, like single mothers of little-to-none job qualifications that are better off being at home with kids than paying child minders or day care, while they go out to do menial jobs.
Then there's also the people in transition. If I lose my job in IT, I'd rather spend 2-3 months on the dole while I'm preparing for/attending interviews and training myself in the new tech that's in high demand. Much much better investment of my time in the long term than going at McDonald's to work as a burger flipper for 3 months. Something that has shitty pay, I can't really put in my CV and will also restrict my availability for interviews.
There'll always be a percentage of unemployed people and they'll always be some sectors with shortage. We've have a had shortage of medical staff (importing from abroad) for a couple of decades at least.
How long does it take to train someone to make a cappuccino? Pour a beer? Make hotel beds?
Anyone who wants an end to freedom of movement should have to come up with a viable solution to the NI border issue. Until there is one (there isn't going to be) we inherently can't end freedom of movement within the UK unless NI wish to secede or unite with Ireland.