I wonder if the mandatory registration in many EU countries isn't also why a lot will choose the UK, it's probably easier to disappear in London when you don't have a job.
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I wonder if the mandatory registration in many EU countries isn't also why a lot will choose the UK, it's probably easier to disappear in London when you don't have a job.
https://www.city.ac.uk/news/2017/november/when-britain-can-deport-eu-citizens-according-to-the-law
Unfortunately the Daily Mail doesn't really report on that kind of stuff.
Yeah, no.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36449974
There is no way to check how many were deported specifically for not finding jobs (it's called being a burden) but the number of deportations of EU nationals is extremely low. And they can return afterwards, unless it's due to criminal convictions etc.
Well, you'd have to prove your statement first instead of putting the onus on someone else to disprove it.
I work in IT, interviewing process and trials are very rigorous. We don't sacrifice quality in favour of getting anyone (the cheaper one) in. The workplace have a very diverse work force.
My 9-man Software Development team consists of:
- 2 English
- 2 Indians
- 1 Spanish
- 1 Italian
- 1 Greek
- 1 French
- 1 Australian
There is a large supply of skilled people. Taxes are not particularly low in the UK, not sure what you're talking about there.
I proved it a few posts back
Because they’re lazy bastards and it’s better on the dole
Link the post please?
I would halve my tax if i moved back to uk. Don't forget tax shy brits has already been covered in the nhs thread and many others. I am not going to repeat myself.
No seriously, in Belgium alone it's in the tenth of thousands and yes it's called being a burden to the social system. Now you can obviously pretend that it's two different subjects.
Edit: Also Cameron didn't negotiate anything the law is from 2003.
Again, that number is not recorded in the UK. Or at least not reported. The total deportations yes, but not how many were due to being a burden.
And I don't think I need to repeat myself why this does not constitute "controlling migration".
EDIT: The Cameron stuff is unrelated. The link explained the status quo before Cameron's negotiations, which got rejected anyway.
Well I'm not talking about the UK and you weren't either, you said that it was impossible. It's not impossible, the UK decided to not do it.
Sending people home 3 months after they don't find a job =/= control on people coming in (the definition of migration). Which is what I was talking about. And you still haven't disproved it in any way.
Also, can I have a link about the deportations of EU citizens from Belgium for being a burden? Any language, I'll google translate. Because EU citizens have more rights than non-EU citizens ofc. there's many ways EU citizens can block their deportation on grounds of being a burden. Hence, it's not generally attempted.
What salary would these guys earn?
Depends on level of experience and the job they do. Lowest are at 40k, highest at 75k.
So, at my last place a dutch guy in tech support, yes tech support, started on 95k euros. The rest were on high 80s. They wont pay cuts as i have mentioned in an earlier post so any company with a vacancy will have to pay or look further afield. Theres your race to the bottom right there. I am in the middle of your pay scale and i am without a single qualification to my name.
How much experience do the 75k guys have?
In Dublin you'd expect to be on close to six figures or more in IT after 10ish years, would've thought London was similar.
You have experience and it's valuable. What jobs are you able to postulate for?
Interesting read.
Obviously as I said, that's not controlling migration. And in my personal opinion, controlling the flow of people coming in is preferable in many ways to deporting people afterwards. Both for the country (since deportations can be quite an expensive legal process) but more importantly for the individuals. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the State trying to remove me from my home, sounds pretty horrible.
Tech support, sys admin. As i said earlier, palo alto used to pay tech support 120k but they dont have to now. Some companies do pay and they aquire the best people, others are happy with adequate.
The thing is that it's actually controlling migration and demography, I can understand why people tend to focus on how to prevent people from crossing borders but it's not a complete view of migration control.
Edit: Migration control includes people that come in and people that leave your territory, you can have a policy that incite people to come or have a policy that is less welcoming.
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10 years plus and are the people leading the team (i.e. more responsibility)
In London, the money is generally in contracting. Perm market does not pay well.
Also these salaries used to be more equalised when the Sterling was 1.4 Euros in 2016. The pound has crashed to 1.13 Euros since, but obviously the salaries have barely nudged up. Definitely not enough to compensate. Therefore salaries outside the UK now seem much higher than inside.
The Sterling-Euro exchange rate has done more to reduce migration to UK from EU than any other factor including Brexit imo.
This might seem a bit anecdotal, but I remember reading an article about unpicked fruit because seasonal workers from Romania did not want to come and pick fruit in the UK. And one of the main reasons for that lack of interest, was the bad exchange rate on the Sterling.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44230865
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So basically it's up to our government to do their job. Like most of the 'problems' people lay at the feet of the EU.
Well at the moment the topic is race to the bottom which is enhanced by fom.
Some people come in with absurd salary demands. I have a friend managing a small team and most of the nationals he interviewed were looking to start on 80k+. Fresh out of college or with some limited experience so these weren't rock star IT guys. He ended up hiring a Brazilian guy for 45k who's ridiculously good and he routinely admits knows more than he does. He's been pushing for a raise for him for a while. His language skills aren't great but my friend loves him. Good attitude, can be rang at 8 or 9 on the evening to get onto something and he doesn't complain about it. Hes friendly and has good social skills too (outside of language as said, which isn't great), which hes found a problem previously when hiring
I think Social Dumping is the more correct term for this effect. Even though not 100% right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_dumping
I don't think there's a specific term about the impact of workers flooding the job market and creating a suppression on wages.
Race to the bottom is government deregulation and lowering of taxes to corporations. Which is something different.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom
Most expats I've worked with over the years in Dublin have been excellent (Portuguese, Brazilian's, Polish in particular), putting us to shame at times, and probably not earning as much as us either.
As a result of this and the push for multi-nationals to achieve ethnic balance I have noticed it being more difficult to get IT jobs in Dublin than before (there's still a lot around, though), when it felt like a big advantage to be Irish.
Aren't corp taxes responsible for the job boom in Ireland years ago? It certainly cost me my job at ibm in nl when it all moved to dublin.
I will read it in detail at another time, but at a glance... what it's saying is that:
a) the pressure is higher on the lower end of the economic scale
b) effect on salaries is not that big
However, I want to check if that's comparing markets across different nations with different levels of migration. Like I said, some countries have experienced a boom in salaries in specific high-demand sectors like mine. But that same salary boom has not been evident in the UK (while demand is very strong) and has led to wage disparities between different countries. It'd be interesting to see if that's explained at all and if that is attributed to something else other than migration. Which is possible, of course.
Corp taxes are why we're one of the richest countries in Europe instead of one of the poorest now.
I asked them if that was what they really thought the referendum was all about and their usual response was well if it sorts out the foreigners they're all for it.
That's why I opted for remain because leaving didn't make sense and at the time the pro Brexit rhetoric was all about the £350m to the NHS and curbing the 'foreigners', which as far as I could see was all bullshit. I couldn't believe....and still can't believe that the country made such a major decision without any substantiated fact, corroboratory evidence or forward planning. I think people would have been more accepting of the vote leave decision if it had been more of an informed choice.
What do you attribute to the boom there then, just a change of scenery for companies?
Tbh misleading people in the manner many of your politicians did should be criminalised imo. Borderline traitorous imo.
Pretty sure hes agreeing with you. I think any other advantages Ireland offered only became apparent after they moved here for the corp taxes savings.
...corp taxes.
We're not gonna agree on that. A policy/law affecting demographics and migration is not the same as controlling them. You have no control over how many come in, what sectors they gonna be working in and what the impact will be on the job or housing market, ultimately. Which is generally what people refer to by controlling immigration.
It's free immigration with some basic rules. That's probably the best I can describe it.
Yeah just looked it up, half that of nl.