the EU has played a blinder.Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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the EU has played a blinder.They really have not had to do anything. What happened yesterday should have happened before A50 was invoked. We have imploded on our own and aren't even dind imploding imo. The implosion will come when it becomes clear to the entire country that FoM will remain.
Brexit supporters seem to have gone from: "It's undemocratic not to accept that whatever deal the govt gets is what we all voted for" to "This deal the government want to get isn't what we voted for!"
Pick a side, lads, pick a side.
Pick a side, lads, pick a side.
There was no deal voted for, the wording of the referendum was ambiguous and made no mention of the CU and SM.
Of course, but people who've spent the last two years arguing it was effectively a 'blank cheque' Brexit, can't be allowed to make that point without ridicule
People have been posting the vote form on Twitter as though that confirms a hard Brexit, it just says that the UK should leave the EU. One can interpret that in many ways.
To be fair, leaving the EU isn't really ambiguous, I understand why remainers would try to play that card but that's not exactly honest.
Internet back on, hooray.
What was agreed yesterday will not be agreed by the EU, it's still cherry-picking.
Getting closer to a soft-Brexit, but still nowhere near.
Seems like the same tactic from May as at Xmas - keep everyone quiet over the holidays to give more breathing space, didn't work last time, won't work this time. And time is running out.
The EU will just wait until they receive the white paper and reject it making a few conciliatory noises.
Why are people thinking that a soft Brexit is on the cards at the moment?
What was agreed yesterday will not be agreed by the EU, it's still cherry-picking.
Getting closer to a soft-Brexit, but still nowhere near.
Seems like the same tactic from May as at Xmas - keep everyone quiet over the holidays to give more breathing space, didn't work last time, won't work this time. And time is running out.
The EU will just wait until they receive the white paper and reject it making a few conciliatory noises.
Why are people thinking that a soft Brexit is on the cards at the moment?
Everyone knows the proposal will be rejected. However, the agreement is already an erosion of the government's red lines and lays the groundwork for further erosion.[/QUOTE]
It's a very small erosion, and by the quotes from a lot of the ministers who have supposedly agreed to this , they're still expecting FoM restrictions, still expecting leaving the CU, still expecting leaving the SM on everything apart from goods, still expecting to make their own trade deals, and still expecting not to pay much to the EU, to name a few.
As you say he proposal will definitely be rejected, what happens then? Another Chequers meeting in 9 months time, oops the UK have already left. It's taken over 2 years to make a tiny inroad into the government's red lines .
The only one that is going to happen is number 1.
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It's hilarious that the article says they are ending free movement and taking their borders down and then further down that there won't be a hard border in Ireland they just don't get it.
they just don't get it.I'm coming to the UK on Tuesday and whatever infectious disease the British people have caught, I hope I'm immune. Lost all sanity and reason.
Only 52% of people.
Yes of those who voted, but I fear it's spreading. I don't see at all what has changed from the last two years other than a different form of cherry picking .
Everyone who voted for Remain voted for the status quo. We know what that is.
Some of the 52% voted to` leave EU and CU but stay in SM. Some of the 52% voted to leave the EU, SM but stay in CM. Some of the 52% voted to leave the EU and leave the SM and CU. Some of the 52% voted to leave the EU but stay in both the CU and SM. Some of the 52% had no idea what either the SM or CU were and hadn't even formed an opinion on what they wanted to do in respect of the CU and SM.
If those options were all on the ballot Remain would have won comfortably.
Some of the 52% voted to` leave EU and CU but stay in SM. Some of the 52% voted to leave the EU, SM but stay in CM. Some of the 52% voted to leave the EU and leave the SM and CU. Some of the 52% voted to leave the EU but stay in both the CU and SM. Some of the 52% had no idea what either the SM or CU were and hadn't even formed an opinion on what they wanted to do in respect of the CU and SM.
If those options were all on the ballot Remain would have won comfortably.
I personally think it was very clear that a majority of the electorate voted to end freedom of movement.
I love how the career politician calls other people career politicians
Seriously though, why are we doing this? What's the point?
Which the UK gov could have done all along!
In the negotiations? Absolutely. It's an appalling idea in almost every regard, though.
I think, at this stage, the idea is just that we give up huge benefits, in order to pretend we're leaving the EU whilst largely staying in, in the faint hope it calms the racists down.
Wasn’t this pig faced cretin picking up a massive pay packet in a job who’s very existence he was fighting against?
Principles indeed.
That seemed the main campaign point alright. They were probably a net contributor to the EU and spending it on British Services was probably a part of the appeal too. The whole 200m for the NHS thing probably got a few votes.
I dont entirely get what red lines they've pulled back from looking at the above letter. It looks ... like pretty much what they've wanted from day one, cherry picking the parts that suit and leaving the parts that don't. Maybe its a matter of selling it to the British public and they hope they can bullshit their way to making people think they got a drastically better deal than they got. The noises over the past week have been more positive.
For sure, but that means a Hard Brexit and a Hard Border in Ireland and all the benefits the UK want disappear.
Yes. It would be absolutely dire.
Personally, think FoM is a beautiful thing and the downsides are overblown.
It was my main reason for remaining.
I hate to think my son might not have thesame opportunities me and my friends got.
Alot of people equate free movement with unlimited immigration and middle eastern refugees with german passports being allowed to move here. Not even getting into EU vs non-EU immigration and the fact that we could have been deporting non-working EU immigrants (those pesky drains on the welfare system/schools/NHS) if we wanted to.
If you renamed free movement of people as "visa-free UK/EU zone" or similar alot of leave voters wouldn't even notice the difference.
If you renamed free movement of people as "visa-free UK/EU zone" or similar alot of leave voters wouldn't even notice the difference.
Presumabky now that this policy is agreed by cabinet any (public) divergence from the policy will have to be accompanied by a resignation?
I suspect a lot of "senior un-named sources" but ultimately probably resignations (Johnson... Gove.... Possibly even Davis)
Will certainly be interesting to see who would be drafted in / bumped up in the ensuing reshuffle... Also be interesting to see if mogg challenges sooner rather than later
I suspect a lot of "senior un-named sources" but ultimately probably resignations (Johnson... Gove.... Possibly even Davis)
Will certainly be interesting to see who would be drafted in / bumped up in the ensuing reshuffle... Also be interesting to see if mogg challenges sooner rather than later
I would have thought so.
Ending FoM kind of flags the above document as a bit of a joke really. You'll continue taking immigrants whatever happens.
According to the Times today Gove was the first high level Brexiter to fall in line on Friday.
Either I'm missing something here, but falling in line with what? Cherry-picking version no.3.
Did he attend or phone-in from Tracy Island?
Falling in line with what was proposed by May and eventually agreed by the cabinet, Paul.
Yes but why would he object to that? It's no different to other versions of having one's cake and eat it. I really must be missing some crucial point because that's a Hard Brexit.
I think Gove and Johnson know the game is up for now and people have seen through their campaign lies. Mogg on the otherhand is more dangerous as he has an extreme ideology and stands to benefit from a hard exit, but I think he will struggle to gain any support outside of the ERG with pro-business Tories.
It would suit Johnson and Gove to support a soft 'in name only' exit, then stomp their feet and oust May afterwards claiming they could have got a better deal but it's too late now. Avoid crashing the economy but generate enough contempt among hard leavers to get the top seat. That's all they've wanted all along.
It would suit Johnson and Gove to support a soft 'in name only' exit, then stomp their feet and oust May afterwards claiming they could have got a better deal but it's too late now. Avoid crashing the economy but generate enough contempt among hard leavers to get the top seat. That's all they've wanted all along.
Yeah... That's why I think mogg might make a play for the leadership around conference time this year.... Now or never type attack... And even if he fails he probably causes enough harm to secure a top job under Johnson or Davis / Gove