The reasoning for many was “too many immigrants”.
At least the ones talking about the Polish were correct in that being in the EU was the cause, but I can assure you I know plenty that blamed the EU for Syrian or Afghanistan refugees.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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The reasoning for many was “too many immigrants”.
At least the ones talking about the Polish were correct in that being in the EU was the cause, but I can assure you I know plenty that blamed the EU for Syrian or Afghanistan refugees.
I agree with you completely but remember when the Leave campaigners were campaigning, Farage and Johnson et al were all for staying in the single market, Johnson even said people have to be insane to leave it. The reason is that they didn't know what they were campaigning for and if they didn't know, how can the general public understand it.
There is no sense to Brexit, you cannot reason with Brexiters because they don't know what they have voted for. That's why there is the cake and eat it wish list, because a real Brexit will destroy the UK's economy.
The prime minister’s spokesman told journalists at the lobby briefing:
"We reached an agreement with the EU on the implementation period - that agreement is clear that it will end in December 2020. We have been clear we are leaving the customs union in December 2020."
I think someone ought to tell May that there will be no implementation or transition period until they've resolved the Irish border problem and sign up legally to what was agreed in December. The EU are waiting for an answer preferably before the end of next month. At this moment the UK are leaving the custom's union in March 2019.
"We reached an agreement with the EU on the implementation period - that agreement is clear that it will end in December 2020. We have been clear we are leaving the customs union in December 2020."
I think someone ought to tell May that there will be no implementation or transition period until they've resolved the Irish border problem and sign up legally to what was agreed in December. The EU are waiting for an answer preferably before the end of next month. At this moment the UK are leaving the custom's union in March 2019.
Dan Hannan - one of the chief architects of Brexit, now talking about EFTA membership
https://www.conservativehome.com/th...our-demands-a-worst-of-all-worlds-brexit.html
Can't make it up
https://www.conservativehome.com/th...our-demands-a-worst-of-all-worlds-brexit.html
Can't make it up
I always get pissed off to feck when audience members come out with this. Ignores the complexities underlying the issue and the actual obstacles blocking it from happening smoothly. Just a sort of whimsical, populist statement that has no backing in factual reality.
''"I've met the man in the street and he's a cnut.".
I usual hate the whole everyone who voted Brexit is stupid stuff but there's is a stain of the vote that has almost gleefully ignorance (It's normally a middle age white man)of how any form of politics works, they seem surprise that the tories and labour have different visions of post Brexit UK. Although having said that you do see this a similar sort of trend with very pro remain liberals(Centrist dads)who also have very bizarre view of politics.
It's like there's a whole group of adults that are suddenly be forced to think about politics for first time in their lives and the results aren't pretty.
Good to see Hannan and a handful of others finally speaking about EFTA agreements. Only taken 2 years to realise it’s just about the only feasible method of leaving the EU at the moment
Stopped watching Question Time over a decade ago for that exact reason.
I keep coming back to this but I think that's a result of very little mainstream political opposition to Brexit. A PM that wants to pretend the 'cake and eating it' route is achievable and a leader of the opposition who seems to want to talk about anything else. Most people probably are under the impression that we can have our cake and eat it as the major political voices at the top of the two major parties either endorse that policy or provide absolutely no opposition to it.
Labour's position seems to be 'We know it's a disaster, so let's do it anyway', which seems even less defensible than the Tory policy of 'if we pretend it's not going to be a disaster, it won't be'. The utter bollocks that is Brexit should have been fiercely opposed from the get go. Instead there's been this general malaise in which there's been more effort in attacking those who point out the lies than attacking the lies and the liars themselves.
The only two parties that stand a chance of forming the government of this country for the next generation and beyond, have policies that effectively state that Brexit must happen regardless of impact. The fact there's nobody on either front bench willing to point out how utterly fecking insane that is, is utterly fecking insane.
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How can they have strong opposition to something they know nothing about? Nobody in the Westminster and London media bubble seems to want to do any actual research on the EU. Total nonsense continually goes unchallenged by newsreaders and talk show hosts, as if it isn’t their job to know. Seems we are ever more deeply entrenched in something we haven’t voted for and don’t know the workings of.
Astonishing really that you can find much more complex work from Brexit blogs than you can from the cheerleading national newspapers. Independent thinkers are too much trouble for the political parties so we end up with a parliament full of brainless drones who say what they are told to
Astonishing really that you can find much more complex work from Brexit blogs than you can from the cheerleading national newspapers. Independent thinkers are too much trouble for the political parties so we end up with a parliament full of brainless drones who say what they are told to
Well exactly. It’s all rather embarrassing. Though let’s not pretend even half the people who voted remain have a clue about the workings of the EU either
Leave.EU fined by Electoral Commission
That argument has been taken apart at least 5 separate times in this thread alone.
So liars cheat too... Are any criminal charges likely?
What argument? That millions of people who voted to remain don’t really know anything about the EU?
Now Theresa May has split her cabinet for one half to work on option A and the other half to work on option B
The EU have told her magical thinking won't work. Options A and B are unworkable. You're wasting even more time, Mrs May.
EFTA won't work either.
You have two choices, remain in the CU/SM or leave totally and break the GFA. Guess what, she doesn't want either.
The EU have told her magical thinking won't work. Options A and B are unworkable. You're wasting even more time, Mrs May.
EFTA won't work either.
You have two choices, remain in the CU/SM or leave totally and break the GFA. Guess what, she doesn't want either.
The argument whether voting leave out of ignorance is in the same ballpark of stupidity as voting remain out of ignorance. (It isn't).
yes - the person who was responsible for signing the submissions made to the electoral commission has been refered to the met for investigation as it is a criminal offence to either knowingly or recklessly submit false information.
the head of the electoral commission also said on an interview this morning that people on the remain side have already been fined etc but that this was to date by far the worse example they have seen and that the reason the fine was only 70k is that this is the maximum they are allowed to impose - in light of their findings they will lobby parliament to increase the maximum fines substantially in future
Good job I didn’t argue that then isn’t it (because it’s not possible to know)
who is in which half?
either people are working on a proposal they believe in and will therefore say theirs is way better than the other proposal and split the govenrment further
or people are working on the proposal they dislike which will mean no real engagement and a half assed job before saying its impossible
or its a mixed bag - in which case you end up with a half assed job and a further split
genuinely cant see how this ends up as anything other than a monumentally bad idea
Why won’t EFTA work?
Custom control/controlled borders, EFTA has them.
Edit: To make it simple, if you want a border free deal, you will need a "deep and comprehensive" political agreement and relationship aka the EU. The idea that you can have a deal strictly economic without a strictly defined and protected jurisdiction is bordering on lunacy.
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Article on it here. They just don't know what to do. They'll never come up with a sensible answer, mainly because there is no answer other than leave totally
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-up-cabinet-teams-to-thrash-out-customs-plan
As per JPRouve said, UK was a member between 1960 and 1973, the time when they were desperately trying to join the EEC and left it when they did.
Sorry, I may have misunderstood/misinterpreted your original post:
When asked how he would go about it, he said he did not have a clue. I am tired of this country.
I'm not sure if it's any consolation but be assured that other countries (even in the 27) have very similar audiences with similar grievances and the same response when asked how they would handle it. It appears a large portion of any electorate think their job is done once they've articulated a grievance.
next meeting tuesday - well certainly nothing is going to happen between now and then other than positions becoming more entrenched... I wonder if anybody will challenge May for the leadership before brexit... or if they will just wait till after to avoid having to actually try and negotiate a deal?
Im thinking it could be a fractious conference and perhaps somebody might try a challenge early before the big post brexit bun fight for next leader starts (johnson, mogg, gove all bubmling about moaning at whatever the outcome is as somehow May failed to restore the empire to its peak (presumably starting wars to make countries sell opium for us and slave trade etc)
Of course, but you cannot expect the man on the street to know how to get that deal but you might expect that the party who called for it in the first place might have a general plan of attack 2 years on from the vote.
There is no possible outcome that won’t result in a huge amount of anger and a serious economic hit. They’d have to be out of their minds to take that job just before the tsunami hits.
At least if they take over just after, they can just pile the blame for the failures on May, even though they carry plenty of the responsibility themselves. Plenty of the public think we have a presidencial system anyway.
Well that is what we (well me, but I assume you too) thought, but the tories taught us that the man on the street doesn't even notice whether a general plan exists or not... Just over half of him will still vote tory regardless and when asked say something akin to "you're doing bad, do better!" like the one in question time.
in some ways I agree with you - but if Gove or Johnson dont think they could beat Mogg for example after brexit (as he will say both were involved in the deal which whatever the deal is he will say is the worst deal ever etc etc... so I could see Johnson for example quitting the cabinet and mounting a challenge this summer... and even if unsuccessful it distances him from the eventual deal
You could be right. I keep forgetting Mogg is supposedly now a hugely influential figure in the Tory party, rather than the ridiculous parody of an 18th century toff that he’s always been. Our country is so fecked.
I have this image of the cabinet riding on a conveyor belt fighting with each other and none of them notice that the end of the conveyor belt overhangs the cliff and they all fall off into the sea.
I don't see it ever being resolved and the UK will just drift off out of the EU next March or May / whoever replaces her , seems extremely unlikely, calls the whole thing off.
It's a fair point, isn't it?
People will go on about agenda and give me some bullshit excuse about political suicide.
The lib Dems got 8% in the last election, it's not a bullshit excuse but simple politics.
Lib Dems broke a manifesto promise .Labour will do nothing like that. I'm not even saying the should throw away the referendum but it's not even clear if the party is opposed to hard Brexit.