Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Paul the Wolf said:
If you had listened to Davis in front of the European Scrutiny Committee you would have blown your top, can't remember the exact words but along the lines of "the men of violence using the border issue as an excuse".
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Listen they havent given a shit for 600 years so I cannot imagine why the would give one now. People still continually suffer because of the empire.
 
Stanley Road said:
Oh? I hadn't realized. Probably cos I'm not part of the super intelligent remain camp.
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Stanley, you still haven't answered my original question. Does anyone other than the winner get representation in NL or not? At this point I simply have to assume you do not know... which raises the question why you brought it up?
 
Abizzz said:
Stanley, you still haven't answered my original question. Does anyone other than the winner get representation in NL or not? At this point I simply have to assume you do not know... which raises the question why you brought it up?
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Ok, I will help as you have been so polite. All parties said they would not form a coalition with the party that got the 2nd largest amount of votes so they basically said fukk you voters, you just wasted your ballot paper. Do you think those voters feel happy about that? But what can they do? Suck it up like the 48% in the uk. If you don't get the comparison then that's fine, you can just continue the charm offensive.
 
Stanley Road said:
Ok, I will help as you have been so polite. All parties said they would not form a coalition with the party that got the 2nd largest amount of votes so they basically said fukk you voters, you just wasted your ballot paper. Do you think those voters feel happy about that? But what can they do? Suck it up like the 48% in the uk. If you don't get the comparison then that's fine, you can just continue the charm offensive.
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Coalitions require compromises... No party has a right to a coalition if they can't find common ground with another party to form one, it is their own responsibility to do so, and neither they nor their voters can complain if they are incapable of doing so.

It isn't comparable to the 48% being utterly ignored at all.
 
Abizzz said:
Coalitions require compromises... No party has a right to a coalition if they can't find common ground with another party to form one, it is their own responsibility to do so, and neither they nor their voters can complain if they are incapable of doing so.

It isn't comparable to the 48% being utterly ignored at all.
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I'm sure some remainers hold seats in parliament, mrs may for example.

To have compromise you need discussion, in nl discussion with the 2nd largest party was refused by all the rest. As a voter how would you feel?
 
Stanley Road said:
I'm sure some remainers hold seats in parliament, mrs may for example.

To have compromise you need discussion, in nl discussion with the 2nd largest party was refused by all the rest. As a voter how would you feel?
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Remainers hold seats because of elections they won, not because of the 48% referendum result. The government had to be brought to court to give them their voice on the topic too and they do not have that voice as a result of the referendum.

I'd feel pretty disgusted with myself if I voted PVV to be perfectly honest. That said, unlike the referendum there's always a next election, I'd do what one does in democracies, I'd argue my point and work towards a better result next time around.
 
ll
Abizzz said:
Remainers hold seats because of elections they won, not because of the 48% referendum result. The government had to be brought to court to give them their voice on the topic too and they do not have that voice as a result of the referendum.

I'd feel pretty disgusted with myself if I voted PVV to be perfectly honest. That said, unlike the referendum there's always a next election, I'd do what one does in democracies, I'd argue my point and work towards a better result next time around.
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Yes i know how works. They say that you get the goverment you deserve.

The real issue here is probably on page 1 of this thread, the uk public voted for a party that offered a referendum. Thats really where this discussion should end.

You may feel disgusted if you voted pvv but the comparison is a bunch of people that dont feel represented by the party in power vs a bunch of people that dont feel represented by the govt in nl.
 
C3Pique said:
Nice deflection. Now answer the question. Did you vote to be outside of the EU external border or not?
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You'll better ask him if he's going to live outside of the EU external border first.
 
Statement by President Donald Tusk on the draft guidelines on the framework for the future relationship with the UK.

Good afternoon. I am very happy to be back in Luxembourg. And very happy to be here with my colleague and good friend, Prime Minister Bettel, to discuss the agenda of the March European Council.

Two hours ago, I sent the EU27 Member States my draft guidelines for our relations with the UK after Brexit. I'm here in Luxembourg to consult the Prime Minister on these guidelines that I hope will be adopted at our European Council in March. It is not a coincidence that once again I start my consultations ahead of a European Council meeting here in Luxembourg with Prime Minister Bettel. I really value your advice - always very constructive and responsible.

My proposal shows that we doesn’t want to build a wall between the EU and Britain. On the contrary, the UK will be our closest neighbour and we want to remain friends and partners also after Brexit. Partners that are as close as possible, just like we have said from the very first day after the referendum.

And, in this spirit, I propose close cooperation within the following areas.

Firstly, as we are confronted with similar security threats, I propose that the EU and the UK continue our common fight against terrorism and international crime. The increasing global instability requires our uninterrupted cooperation in defence and foreign affairs. It is about the security of our citizens, which must be preserved beyond Brexit.

Secondly, we invite the UK to participate in EU programmes in the fields of research and innovation, as well as in education and culture. This is key to maintain mutually beneficial and enriching personal networks in these vital areas, and for our community of values to prosper also in future.

Thirdly, I am determined to avoid that particularly absurd consequence of Brexit that is the disruption of flights between the UK and the EU. To do so, we must start discussions on this issue as soon as possible.

Now, coming to the core of our future economic relationship. During my talks in London last Thursday, and in her speech last Friday, Prime Minister Theresa May confirmed that the UK will leave the Single Market, leave the customs union and leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ (European Court of Justice). Therefore, it should come as no surprise that the only remaining possible model is a free trade agreement. I hope that it will be ambitious and advanced – and we will do our best, as we did with other partners, such as Canada recently – but anyway it will only be a trade agreement.

I propose that we aim for a trade agreement covering all sectors and with zero tariffs on goods. Like other free trade agreements, it should address services. And in fisheries, reciprocal access to fishing waters and resources should be maintained.

This positive approach doesn't change the simple fact that because of Brexit we will be drifting apart. In fact, this will be the first FTA in history that loosens economic ties, instead of strengthening them. Our agreement will not make trade between the UK and the EU frictionless or smoother. It will make it more complicated and costly than today, for all of us. This is the essence of Brexit.

To sum up, we will enter the negotiations of the future relations with the UK with an open, positive and constructive mind, but also with realism. From my point of view, the outcome of the negotiations must pass two key tests:
– the test of balance of rights and obligations. For example, the EU cannot agree to grant the UK the rights of Norway with the obligations of Canada;
– the test of integrity of the Single Market. No Member State is free to pick only those sectors of the Single Market it likes, nor to accept the role of the ECJ only when it suits their interest. By the same token, a pick-and-mix approach for a non-member state is out of the question. We are not going to sacrifice these principles. It's simply not in our interest.

Finally, a few words about another topic of the March summit. Following the announcement of President Trump, there is a risk of a serious trade dispute between the United States and the rest of the world, including the EU. President Trump has recently said, and I quote: 'trade wars are good, and easy to win'. But the truth is quite the opposite: trade wars are bad, and easy to lose. For this reason, I strongly believe that now is the time for politicians on both sides of the Atlantic to act responsibly.

Given that President Trump's announcement may have repercussions for our citizens and European businesses, not to mention the global economy, I will propose that the EU leaders have an extraordinary trade debate at the upcoming summit. We should have a clear objective in mind: to keep world trade alive. And, if necessary, to protect Europeans against trade turbulence, including by proportionate responses in accordance with the WTO.

Thank you.
 
Stanley Road said:
ll

Yes i know how works. They say that you get the goverment you deserve.

The real issue here is probably on page 1 of this thread, the uk public voted for a party that offered a referendum. Thats really where this discussion should end.

You may feel disgusted if you voted pvv but the comparison is a bunch of people that dont feel represented by the party in power vs a bunch of people that dont feel represented by the govt in nl.
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The real issue here is you jumping around arguments all the time and never staying on topic (in this thread). The comparison fails because one was an election and the other a referendum.
Stanley Road said:
What do he mean?
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Stanley Road said:
I have no voting rights in any country and nor does paul. Good enuff?
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What is paul?
Stanley Road said:
ll

Yes i know how works. They say that you get the goverment you deserve.
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Stanley Road said:
Went to Oz in 2015, received visa in 10 minutes. simple, took longer to book flights
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Given that your keyboard seems to lack an apostrophe and that your capitalisation is more than sketchy you might want to rethink being a grammar nazi.

Sorry for the off-topic, I'll let it be now.

I'm happy enough with Tusk's statement there. The key is how much a free trade agreement will be viewed as endangering the single market, which is largely a matter of perception, and how much the UK will be willing to contribute to the single market for continued access.
 
Avoided this thread for about half a year as I'm tired of the news constantly being filled with Brexit and but I'm reasonably happy that the first stage of negotiations passed through with both sides happy.

Just reading today though that Tusk and the EU are saying that they want a free trade agreement to include 0 tarrifs on goods, but not to include financial services. So essentially they want no barriers on the things we're net importers on per year to the tune of £100bn, but not on what we're net exporters on (around £10-20b of financial services per year). A bit ludicrous imo. It's not that difficult to reach an agreement that benefits both the UK and the EU, as both sides showed during the first stage negotiations. Imo a good deal on financial services is crucial to us and we should significantly leverage the amount of EU goods through flow through the UK to get one. Just agreeing blindly to free trade on goods without anything on financial services would be daft for us over the longer-term.
 
marktan said:
Avoided this thread for about half a year as I'm tired of the news constantly being filled with Brexit and but I'm reasonably happy that the first stage of negotiations passed through with both sides happy.

Just reading today though that Tusk and the EU are saying that they want a free trade agreement to include 0 tarrifs on goods, but not to include financial services. So essentially they want no barriers on the things we're net importers on per year to the tune of £100bn, but not on what we're net exporters on (around £10-20b of financial services per year). A bit ludicrous imo. It's not that difficult to reach an agreement that benefits both the UK and the EU, as both sides showed during the first stage negotiations. Imo a good deal on financial services is crucial to us and we should significantly leverage the amount of EU goods through flow through the UK to get one. Just agreeing blindly to free trade on goods without anything on financial services would be daft for us over the longer-term.
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To have full access to the service market, you need to be full member of the EU and EUCU. It's not ludicrous, it has always been like that.
 
Abizzz said:
The real issue here is you jumping around arguments all the time and never staying on topic (in this thread). The comparison fails because one was an election and the other a referendum.
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It doesn't fail in any way how often you keep saying it, you are in this shit because you voted( in an election )for a party that offered you the ref and now that same party has been voted in to deliver and I'm the stupid one, epic train of thought.
 
I love how Stanley has gone from pro Brexit to "well you voted for Cameron so its all your fault."

I didn't, for the record, so its not.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
I love how Stanley has gone from pro Brexit to "well you voted for Cameron so its all your fault."

I didn't, for the record, so its not.
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I did ask myself if it was a deliberate distancing or just unfortunate turns of phrases.
 
As a sort of summary of the last arguments, people voted for brexit because of these topics:

- The EU is less democratic than the UK, it's a dictatorship.
- The EU prevents the UK from having exceptional trade deals.
- Fix the housing problem.
- Dodge the migrant crisis.
- Have less immigrants, who are inherently unfit to adapt to western culture.
- Control the borders freely.
- Make your own laws.
- 300m£ per week to the NHS.

If I'm not mistaken that's all the main topics, none of them is correct, half of them have nothing to do with the EU and anyone that had and idea about the EU or the UK or politics would have spotted the lies, which is why you don't use referendums for that type of subjects, not even jurists and political scientists can effectively treat something like that without the help of specialists.
 
GloryHunter07 said:
I love how Stanley has gone from pro Brexit to "well you voted for Cameron so its all your fault."

I didn't, for the record, so its not.
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Not at all, i am just trying to put across the other side otherwise it would be a massive wankfest of agreement

It still is the fault of british voters and i want them to admit it, no-one has done yet.
 
JPRouve said:
To have full access to the service market, you need to be full member of the EU and EUCU. It's not ludicrous, it has always been like that.
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Whilst that's true, that wasn't my point at all. Brexit is the first time something like this has happened so old conventions could could have some flexibility if the right incentives are offered. My point was agreeing to a favourable deal of no tariffs for goods for the EU without a good deal on financial services is dumb. My impression from the first stage of negotiations were that the EU offered no flexibility, which essentially led to May just agreeing everything they wanted (sensible imo), and whilst the EU's entitled to offer what they want I hope there is some flexibility because financial services are very important to the UK long-term (at least in my opinion as someone with a lot of friends working in that sector).
 
marktan said:
Whilst that's true, that wasn't my point at all. Brexit is the first time something like this has happened so old conventions could could have some flexibility if the right incentives are offered. My point was agreeing to a favourable deal of no tariffs for goods for the EU without a good deal on financial services is dumb. My impression from the first stage of negotiations were that the EU offered no flexibility, which essentially led to May just agreeing everything they wanted (sensible imo), and whilst the EU's entitled to offer what they want I hope there is some flexibility because financial services are very important to the UK long-term (at least in my opinion as someone with a lot of friends working in that sector).
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I don't think you understand the subject here and what you wrote is just senseless. Financial services are part of the full single market, if you are not part of it you don't have access to it, it's not negotiable and that's the very thing that the UK unilaterally decided to leave. The EU asked the UK what they wanted to do, the UK answered that they wanted to leave the EUCU and the SM, which means that they won't have access to all the EU markets.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't think you understand the subject here and what you wrote is just senseless. Financial services are part of the full single market, if you are not part of it you don't have access to it, it's not negotiable and that's the very thing that the UK unilaterally decided to leave. The EU asked the UK what they wanted to do, the UK answered that they wanted to leave the EUCU and the SM, which means that they won't have access to all the EU markets.
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It's been clear for a long time it's either take a Norway type deal and keep have services included...but also the obligations that come with that
Or take a Canada type deal with goods only
It's rediculus that we are so far into a negotiation and frankly we have made no progress
 
marktan said:
Whilst that's true, that wasn't my point at all. Brexit is the first time something like this has happened so old conventions could could have some flexibility if the right incentives are offered. My point was agreeing to a favourable deal of no tariffs for goods for the EU without a good deal on financial services is dumb. My impression from the first stage of negotiations were that the EU offered no flexibility, which essentially led to May just agreeing everything they wanted (sensible imo), and whilst the EU's entitled to offer what they want I hope there is some flexibility because financial services are very important to the UK long-term (at least in my opinion as someone with a lot of friends working in that sector).
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I thought i heard there were 6tr of loans to the eu from the city of london, what would happen to those loans?
 
JPRouve said:
I don't think you understand the subject here and what you wrote is just senseless. Financial services are part of the full single market, if you are not part of it you don't have access to it, it's not negotiable and that's the very thing that the UK unilaterally decided to leave. The EU asked the UK what they wanted to do, the UK answered that they wanted to leave the EUCU and the SM, which means that they won't have access to all the EU markets.
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And your whole post is addressed in my previous post. This is why I avoid this thread, logic and reason seems to go out the window when it comes to Brexit. Don't quote me.
 
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