Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
marktan said:
And your whole post is addressed in my previous post. This is why I avoid this thread, logic and reason seems to go out the window when it comes to Brexit. Don't quote me.
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I'm going to quote you because you are the one not using logic. Brexit means that you are an outsider which is absolutely not new, that's a complete fallacy to pretend that Brexit is special when it comes to the future FTA, you are no different to Canada, the US, Turkey, Norway or South Korea. You are outsiders and will be treated like outsiders because that's the decision that you made.

On that particular point, it's quite simple. The EU will not give the perks of full membership to a country that isn't a full member, it stops and starts there.
 
JPRouve said:
I'm going to quote you because you are the one not using logic. Brexit means that you are an outsider which is absolutely not new, that's a complete fallacy to pretend that Brexit is special when it comes to the future FTA, you are no different to Canada, the US, Turkey, Norway or South Korea. You are outsiders and will be treated like outsiders because that's the decision that you made.

On that particular point, it's quite simple. The EU will not give the perks of full membership to a country that isn't a full member, it stops and starts there.
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Nothing is simple. It's only simple in your mind because you refuse to listen to arguments and simply reply with 'this is how it is, and will be, because the guidelines say so'. Which imo just comes up as a thinly veiled way of you saying that you want things to happen to the benefit of the EU (because you're European), purely because we're the ones leaving. Your bias comes across.

My point, as you've missed twice now, was simply this: We net import £100b a year in goods, we export £15-20b a year in services - we have leverage if they want free trade on goods but on services. Use that leverage. It's a negotiation. That's it. That's my point. Please don't quote me again if you're not going to actually reply to that and simply list down what this situation supposedly means. I get that Brexit is a bad thing, I've thought that since the start, I don't need telling again.
 
marktan said:
Nothing is simple. It's only simple in your mind because you refuse to listen to arguments and simply reply with 'this is how it is, and will be, because the guidelines say so'. Which imo just comes up as a thinly veiled way of you saying that you want things to happen to the benefit of the EU (because you're European), purely because we're the ones leaving. Your bias comes across.

My point, as you've missed twice now, was simply this: We net import £100b a year in goods, we export £15-20b a year in services - we have leverage if they want free trade on goods but on services. Use that leverage. It's a negotiation. That's it. That's my point. Please don't quote me again if you're not going to actually reply to that and simply list down what this situation supposedly means. I get that Brexit is a bad thing, I've thought that since the start, I don't need telling again.
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As was pointed out hundreds of times before the referendum and thousands of times since, the UK have decided to leave the EU Customs Union and the Single Market - this cancelled their right to have a deal on financial services - there is no leverage whatsoever, there is no negotiation , if the UK leaves those institutions that is what is going to happen - the EU is not going to change the rules. The Uk decided to leave and there are massive consequences of that, if they wanted to maintain it they should not have left. They can't just have the bits they like.
 
marktan said:
Nothing is simple. It's only simple in your mind because you refuse to listen to arguments and simply reply with 'this is how it is, and will be, because the guidelines say so'. Which imo just comes up as a thinly veiled way of you saying that you want things to happen to the benefit of the EU (because you're European), purely because we're the ones leaving. Your bias comes across.

My point, as you've missed twice now, was simply this: We net import £100b a year in goods, we export £15-20b a year in services - we have leverage if they want free trade on goods but on services. Use that leverage. It's a negotiation. That's it. That's my point. Please don't quote me again if you're not going to actually reply to that and simply list down what this situation supposedly means. I get that Brexit is a bad thing, I've thought that since the start, I don't need telling again.
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It's not thinly veiled, any deal will have to benefit the EU, that's the all point of the EU. And bear in mind that more than 40% of the UK's export go to the EU while around 16% of the EU exports go to the UK, who do you think has leverage? Also the financial industry is something that EU members will partially and gladly take away from the UK, it is worth money and there is little reason to give it to the UK.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
As was pointed out hundreds of times before the referendum and thousands of times since, the UK have decided to leave the EU Customs Union and the Single Market - this cancelled their right to have a deal on financial services - there is no leverage whatsoever, there is no negotiation , if the UK leaves those institutions that is what is going to happen - the EU is not going to change the rules. The Uk decided to leave and there are massive consequences of that, if they wanted to maintain it they should not have left. They can't just have the bits they like.
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So what happens to those loans? Curious
 
Stanley Road said:
It doesn't fail in any way how often you keep saying it, you are in this shit because you voted( in an election )for a party that offered you the ref and now that same party has been voted in to deliver and I'm the stupid one, epic train of thought.
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I did not and would never vote tory. For the record i'm a US-German dual citizen so don't get a vote at all.

@marktan The financial services ship sailed about 12 months ago. It's all about damage limitation from this point on.

 
marktan said:
Whilst that's true, that wasn't my point at all. Brexit is the first time something like this has happened so old conventions could could have some flexibility if the right incentives are offered. My point was agreeing to a favourable deal of no tariffs for goods for the EU without a good deal on financial services is dumb. My impression from the first stage of negotiations were that the EU offered no flexibility, which essentially led to May just agreeing everything they wanted (sensible imo), and whilst the EU's entitled to offer what they want I hope there is some flexibility because financial services are very important to the UK long-term (at least in my opinion as someone with a lot of friends working in that sector).
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The UK made flexibility impossible by opting out of the single market, FOM, the custom union (or any custom union) prior to even discussing it. I understand the government need to satisfy the will of the people. However the will of the people on the other side is for the eu not to put our interest first and foremost.

There are no equal partners. There is a small market and a big market with the latter exerting its power to carve the better deal. That is how trade deals work. Just wait when you start dealing with US. Oh wait you already had a taste with open skies
 
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marktan said:
Nothing is simple. It's only simple in your mind because you refuse to listen to arguments and simply reply with 'this is how it is, and will be, because the guidelines say so'. Which imo just comes up as a thinly veiled way of you saying that you want things to happen to the benefit of the EU (because you're European), purely because we're the ones leaving. Your bias comes across.

My point, as you've missed twice now, was simply this: We net import £100b a year in goods, we export £15-20b a year in services - we have leverage if they want free trade on goods but on services. Use that leverage. It's a negotiation. That's it. That's my point. Please don't quote me again if you're not going to actually reply to that and simply list down what this situation supposedly means. I get that Brexit is a bad thing, I've thought that since the start, I don't need telling again.
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Don't you think if the UK had real leverage then it wouldn't be begging for a deal in the way it's doing? Instead its backpaddling on almost everything

I am not denying that brexit won't hurt the EU. However, its seems pretty obvious whose set to be the biggest loser here
 
Steven Seagull said:
Find Bettels comments today somewhat disconcerting. Striking fear into other EU countries with thinly veiled threats about what would happen to people if they started contemplating life outside the EU.
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Which part, I think I missed it?
 
Abizzz said:
They would become very hard to enforce if the UK leave without an agreement.
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I could make a big mistake but isn't the biggest part through, the European investment bank? For which the UK(Bank of England) are shareholders. If I'm not mistaken, the EU has to buy the UK out and it's part of the financial settlement.
 
Stanley Road said:
Not at all, i am just trying to put across the other side otherwise it would be a massive wankfest of agreement

It still is the fault of british voters and i want them to admit it, no-one has done yet.
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Not all British voters stanley. Only 36.9% of voters actually.

You are expecting the left leaning caf to admit voting Tory? Obfuscation.
 
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Stanley Road said:
Paul would have voted for cameron, he said so in this very thread yet is the most vocal remainer. I dont get that and i dont believe he is alone. Marching is another.
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I cant speak for those two but it appears you are a Brexiter and this mess is your fault. Maybe you will be man enough to admit that one day.
 
But werent both sides playing the brexit card? If I'm not mistaken, in the UK you vote for your MP and he votes for his leader, the labour leader, Corbin, is anti EU. There was no safe vote for remainers.
 
JPRouve said:
But werent both sides playing the brexit card? If I'm not mistaken, in the UK you vote for your MP and he votes for his leader, the labour leader, Corbin, is anti EU. There was no safe vote for remainers.
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There was. And there was only one guy offering an in out ref. The uk chose him but its all my fault apparently.
 
Stanley Road said:
Anyone but Cameron
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But that's not how the UK system work, ou don't really have a say on who is your PM. They had the choice between Tory and Labour, both had a significant part of eurosceptics which has been demonstrated by labour's attitude since.
 
JPRouve said:
But that's not how the UK system work, ou don't really have a say on who is your PM. They had the choice between Tory and Labour, both had a significant part of eurosceptics which has been demonstrated by labour's attitude since.
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Cameron had the ref in his manifesto, no-one else did. not labour, libdems, greens.

Also corbyn was after the 2015 GE where people voted for Brexit boy, Milliband was the leader
 
Stanley Road said:
Cameron had the ref in his manifesto, no-one else did. not labour, libdems, greens.

Also corbyn was after the 2015 GE where people voted for Brexit boy, Milliband was the leader
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Actually, they both had a referendum in their manisfesto. But to be honest Labour had a referendum only in case of "major transfers of power" which kind of make your case.
 
JPRouve said:
Actually, they both had a referendum in their manisfesto. But to be honest Labour had a referendum only in case of "major transfers of power" which kind of make your case.
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there were more options than lab and con, there is no room for complaining to be honest and using the excuse "Didn't think the ref would go the way it did" is utter nonsense.
 
Stanley Road said:
there were more options than lab and con, there is no room for complaining to be honest and using the excuse "Didn't think the ref would go the way it did" is utter nonsense.
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Not practically there aren't.

I wanted to vote Green last election tbh. My constituency, however, had an incumbent Labour MP who won with 40% of the vote in 2015 and a Conservative challenger who was predicted to unseat him. A vote for anyone other than the Labour candidate was a vote for the Conservative one.

FPTP is an awful system.
 
Saw the doc on the beeb last night, it was very one sided but what stood out at the end was one pro remain teen said "Where else are we going to get cheap labour?". jaw dropped.
 
Stanley Road said:
Paul would have voted for cameron, he said so in this very thread yet is the most vocal remainer. I dont get that and i dont believe he is alone. Marching is another.
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In 2010 I didn't even think about the UK GE and neither really in 2015, it was only in the autumn of 2015 when the pound started sliding that the danger of the UK leaving the EU became a real possibility that I was reawoken to UK politics. I may have voted Tory just through habit but it wouldn't have mattered if I'd voted for the Russian Communist pro Trump party as where I had been living was always a 25k/30k Tory majority safe seat.

But if one voted now between May and Corbyn who is really the most anti-EU leader. May is an awful PM but you really think Corbyn is any better.
Fortunately I haven't had to make a choice since 2005.

Stanley Road said:
:lol:

Yes its all my fault. Unable to vote in any country i take full responsibility.
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You are renouncing all responsibility but trying to shift the blame onto me and I didn't vote either:lol:
 
Stanley Road said:
I am certainly putting the blame with Tory voters yes, you in particular no. Despite you having said if you were in the UK and had to vote you would probably have voted for Cameroon. So you kinda have to suck it up. :smirk:
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And the people who did actually vote for Brexit have no responsibility or blame at all?
 
Stanley Road said:
They might be happy with how they voted. This could all have been avoided at the ballot box mate, who's shifting blame now? ;)
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We'll find out how happy they are when this is all sorted out, they don't seem too happy with it at the moment otherwise they wouldn't be asking for the cherries they're not going to get , trying to get transition etc.
Imagine if the talks stopped now and March 2019 arrived with no further progress, the EU would have problems but the UK would be paralysed.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
We'll find out how happy they are when this is all sorted out, they don't seem too happy with it at the moment otherwise they wouldn't be asking for the cherries they're not going to get , trying to get transition etc.
Imagine if the talks stopped now and March 2019 arrived with no further progress, the EU would have problems but the UK would be paralysed.
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That's next years episode
 
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