A custom's union alone is not sufficient and more so the cherries the UK are asking for are not compatible with the the idea of a regulated border.
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A custom's union alone is not sufficient and more so the cherries the UK are asking for are not compatible with the the idea of a regulated border.
No they don't understand, what they thought they were voting for in 2016 is very far removed what they did actually vote for.
True, you need a custom union and a free trade agreement but everything starts with the CU. The CU is the framework while the FTA is the usage, you absolutely need a CU to have open borders.
Yes agreed, the problem is that the UK government have already ruled out every single viable option.
I've yet to understand why Theresa May took the job especially since not even Brexiteers wanted it (or want it) in the first place. I sympathise with people who stick to their ideology through thick and thin and I can understand those who are opportunistic. However TM doesn't even believe in Brexit and there's little to gain in being PM at this point in time (else she would have been backstabbed long ago). S
She will be forever remembered as the Lady version of Neville Chamberlian and Jimmy Carter. Is that a legacy worth throwing away your political career for?
She will be forever remembered as the Lady version of Neville Chamberlian and Jimmy Carter. Is that a legacy worth throwing away your political career for?
But she got the top job, being known as the worst PM in living memory probably doesn't even bother her.
Maybe she thinks that someone is going to come at her rescue. Objectively within Tory there is probably more people against a reckless brexit than for it, so she probably tabled on an internal rebellion. Now the problem is that no one in that party has an ounce of courage, brexiteers are not willing to assume their initial agenda of "brexit means brexit and we want control of our borders at all cost" while the the rest of the party are too afraid to upset the part of the electorate who was convinced that difficult choices would not have to be made. I saw someone make the perfect summary you have to choose between brexit and The Good Friday agreement.
That's the thing. What's the point of getting the top job only to be remembered as the worst PM in history?
Without EU citizens coming into the UK the economy would tank - BREXIT will not make much difference to immigration from EU countries imo whether there is a hard or soft border. It's hard to believe but some idiots thought that BREXIT would mean all non-white's being deported immediately - there is that mind set out there. Imagine their surprise when this does not occur, people from other countries continue to move here and the only thing that really changes is that all our salaries continue to stagnate and unemployment goes through the roof due to the economy crashing and companies ditching the UK.
While this is certainly true also worth mentioning the anti immigration element isn't just with white people
The British Asian vote for Brexit contains a few surprises
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/02/20/the-british-asian-vote-for-brexit-contains-a-few-surprises/
Why Did South Asians Vote for Brexit?
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/wdabxb/why-did-south-asians-vote-for-brexit
I can’t possibly see a scenario where she might end up on top. Time is running out and the government is at complete mercy of the DUP. The latter demand no hard borders with the ROI AND with the UK which goes against any possible solution apart from the UK remaining in the customs union. However that would mean burning bridges with the hard Brexiteers whom in turn has enough votes to topple the government. Not to forget the remainers camp who might ally with JC if the view shift too much on the hard Brexit side.
All of that totally ignores the big elephant in the room that also happens to hold most of the cards ie the EU. Each and every EU member has its own red lines but also happen to know not to fall in the divide and conquer trap by breaking ranks and deal with the UK on an individual basis. Then, there’s of course there’s rest of the world watching. If let’s say the UK is generous with the EU then other countries like India will expect the same treatment especially since Brexiteers had been mumbling about a ‘close relationship’ with commonwealth countries for months. Not to forget Donald Trump who is an unpredictable spoiled kid who had made it quite clear that he supported Brexit mainly because it weakened the EU.
I can understand someone who fecks his career for some ideology. People are even willing to sacrifice their lives for something they believe in. I can also sympathise with people who are being swept away by something which was way out of their control. For example Neville Chamberlain gets plenty of slack however he couldn’t possibly predict that a former WW1 soldier of all people who witnessed the terror of a world war would risk initiating a second world war (not that I am comparing Brexit with WW2 but you get the drift). However, this Brexit thing was highly predictable from day 1. No wonder why the likes of Gove, Davies, Leadstom, Mogg and Johnson committed or/are committing all sort of gaffes to avoid having to drink the poisoned chalice. However, I can’t understand Theresa May. What’s the point in her being a PM who is leading the country into something she doesn’t even believe in especially since she knows it’s going to end bad.
Paul mentioned her eagerness to become PM at all cost. However she could still have achieved that by becoming PM only to resign the moment the GE votes didn’t give her the majority she needed to govern.
I am not surprised. Many believed the Brexiteers mantra that if the UK can control EU immigration then it would be able to be more generous with non EU immigrants especially those coming from the commonwealth.
It's like any profession, if you become a politician most of them would like to reach the top of their profession, the same for an English footballer would like to be the captain of England or someone working for a company would like to become the chairman, doesn't necessarily mean that they are the best or the most popular.
Yes the UK needs immigration, they don't realise it but basically they have voted for less white and more multi-coloured.
You really don't think there are any idiots in this world?
Currently watching David Davis before the European Scrutiny Committee - best comedy show there is, he has no idea what he's doing.
There are but they don't all wear the same shirt, have the same hairstyle, support the same team or vote the same way.
Nobody said they did but here we're talking about a specific thing and many people did something gravely serious when they had not the faintest idea what they were doing. Maybe we have a different definition of idiots.
It does remind me of one conversation(argument) I had with someone I know why they voted for Brexit which basically boiled down to them voting Brexit to protect their grandchildren from being governed by a Muslim run state. Maybe I'm wrong.
I knew one guy who said he voted remain because he liked paella
The people who clusterfcuked Brexit into happening, because thats basically how it happened and still happens, are the same feckwits who forgot about the Northern Ireland problem to begin with. Now they are willing to restart the conflict here just to get their blue passports. Horrible horrible bunch of cnuts!
I'm saying that is what some idiots thought, not what I thought.
When I asked my team lead how he was going to vote he said 'Remain', I said 'Really, why?', he said 'I dunno, what do I know about these things?'
I wonder how many remainers knew what they were voting for?
Well you'd need a vivid imagination to think about bold part but if you have, you can see muslim extremists moving through Europe with ease as fom allows. I personally don't ever see anything like that of course but I think fom is bad.
That's not how your post came across, also who are the idiots?
The first part is what I've said all along, this shouldn't be decided by a referendum, people on the whole don't know enough about, on the other hand since the referendum, you read comments and political figures are still continuing with a stream of lies and clearly people still believe it.
You should have watched David Davis today, top class idiot and he's the chief negotiator!
I came back from Barcelona at the weekend and we had to go through a passport check. All EU citizens went straight through but those from outside the EU had to go through a tougher process. We can protect our boarders now every bit as much as we can when we are outside of the EU.
Ok but My team lead was not an idiot despite our difference of opinion. he's an intelligent top bloke, I wont judge him on his voting preference, people should try it.
If there was going to be a referendum, then there should've been one on a clear, direct method of leaving the EU, i.e. either a referendum where Leavers argued for leaving the single market and implementing a hard border in Ireland, or one where they advocated retaining freedom of movement and simply leaving the EU in name only. The problem is, of course, that neither option would've won; the former would've been too extreme while the latter wouldn't have inspired anti-EU voters at all. The problem with what we got, though, was that it became a vote in which Leavers could project whatever meaning they desired onto the vote instead of something more definitive and concrete.
Of course he's not an idiot he voted remain.
And he admitted that he didn't knew, that's the sign of an intelligent man.
It's probably a bit different for us because we aren't bordering multiple EU countries, but a lot of the Western/Central European countries that border several states probably need it - cross-country travels commonplace for a lot of workers I'd imagine, and border checks all the time would be pretty unfeasible.
And who gave people that choice?
What choice? We can either leave the single market and implement a hard border in Ireland, therefore violating the Good Friday agreement, or we can remain in the single market and continue to retain freedom of movement. Voters projected either of these realities onto the vote with no concrete idea as to which we were opting for - we still don't know now which one we'll go through with.
So by that logic if the 52% said they didn't know then that would make them intelligent? I think otherwise
Blue passports, fish
In or out, who gave you that choice???
If you don't know you have two options, you either don't vote or keep the status quo. Now, it's true that if you don't know you can't justify drastic changes which makes voting to leave stupid.
The government...not sure what this has to do with the point I was making though.